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Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?
6

Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

(OP)
I have been lured away from my current job by a local competitor firm by promises of more advancement opportunity, a better overall total compensation package, and a 40% increase in base salary! Any way I look at it, it's a great opportunity and I'd be dumb not to take it. Should I give my current employer an opportunity to match (which I know they won't), or should I just take the job and put in my 2 weeks notice (I will offer to stay as long as I need to of course to close things out smoothly, and my "new" employer is totally agreeable to that). I've heard that it is best to just take a great offer and quit, because even if your current employer matches things will never be the same (resentment, getting passed over for future advancement opportunities, etc.).

I'd like to hear from anyone willing to respond, but I'm especially interested in hearing from small/medium engineering firm owners. Would you guys hold it against me if I left for a better offer you couldn't match? If you could match and had the opportunity to do so, would it change our relationship? I'm really torn on this.

Thanks in advance.
 

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

You'd be a fool not to take the offer.
Why would you want to start and auction with your old company who obviously have been paying you well below your worth.

What's the worst that could happen? your prospective employer could withdraw his offer leaving you high and dry and your current boss will do nothing except start looking for your replacement.

But this is a topic that has been discussed here many times before. Perhaps someone can remember some of the threads and will post them for you.

It hasn't been that long so you could try searching backwards through the threads here.

 

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

Very similar was the topic of a thread recently thread731-208551: Counter-offer.  I'd say your assessment is probably correct.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

4
My perspective from being a structural department head:

1.  I always told my staff that I would appreciate an opportunity to respond to outside offers.

2.  I told them that in this current job market culture, there will always be offers coming your way and to truly evaluate your options, if you told me the offer then I could at least let you know what my counter response would be and therefore have two "good" offers to evaluate.

3.  As a department head, it is sometimes very tough to know what to pay someone.  You have the pressure to keep costs low, but you also have the pressure to retain good staff.  And the job "market" isn't an active one.  I mean by this that minute by minute we know what a stock is selling for on the NYSE but sometimes staff salary levels aren't well understood for months or years.

4.  Let's face it, sometimes we managers do take our staff for granted and then when an outside offer comes we think "Oh s..t" and jump to react and pay accordingly.

5.  Let's also face it - your 40% salary increase may fool you into thinking you'll get further raises from where you are in the future at the same rate you have previously been getting them.  Firms do offer high to get you in the door and then scale back on the future raises to make up the difference over time.

6.  As far as burning bridges, my own disposition is that I never felt bad about folks leaving my staff as I had empathy for any engineer just trying to find their way on their own career path.  I never took it personally.  However, some managers do and you have to evaluate each one individually.

7.  I usually emphasized that I would never get upset if my staff came to me with a counter offer since they are simply a reality of life and I'd actually appreciate it.


 

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

One more point:  The large jump in salary (40%) might wake them up to a severe case of "cheapskate-itus" if you were truly underpaid that much.  

You might want to evaluate your current and prospective pay against some of the published literature out there....were you underpaid?  Is the new offer way high?  Combination of both?  This might get you a better feel for what's going on.

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

I say take it, get everything cleared with new employer then turn in notice.
There was a reason you were looking in the first place.  I imagine that hasn't changed and probably it wasn't just money.
If your current did counter and you stayed things would probably go poorly in the future (ie. poor assignments, first up for RIFs, poor raises).
Don't burn your bridges in either direction.  I imagine your current employer would be more willing to hire you back in a few years rather than the new one if you failed to accept their offer.

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

My boss was happy I told them I had recieved an offer.  I did not go into detail about it, but that I would feel foolish from a financial standpoint to pass it up.  I got a token raise that portrayed some degree of desire that I stayed.

When all the reasons to stay/leave were scored and weighted, the outcome was 50/50, so I took to flipping a coin before going into the liquor store.  Out of the 5 flips, the first 2 said to go, the last 3 to stay.  This told me that things looked good on the surface, but I would be better off in the long run to stay.

A few months later, I was promoted.  Now I just need to work up the compensation for the position.

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

How many coin flips were you prepared to do?

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

BlastResistant,

Congratulations on the new offer!!  That's great.

If you don't mind me asking, I am curious to the specifics of your situation.  How much were you making and what is the new offer??  What line of structural work (bridge, building, industrial)?  How many years experience do you have??
 

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

Star for your reply JAE!

Very insightful and honest opinion from a department head. It's good to know what managers think.

Personally, I'm not looking, nor do I plan to look any time soon. I'm actually the kind of person who will stick around for a long time. But if the situation ever presents itself, I will remember your post.

 

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

Work with the new employer, get an offer letter, letting them know you will start X days after receiving it.  Then you can give your employer your notice.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies to make the be

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

There's always a lot of opinions on this sort of situation and I guess you have to weigh up your relationship with your manager.

I recently changed jobs myself. However I actually indicated to my manager I had applied for another job (before recieving my letter of offer even) as I felt that we had a good working relationship and wanted to give him as much time as possible to start looking for a replacement.

Mine had been triggered by an unfavourable pay review at the end of last year, which I made known to my manager I wasn't happy with, and then he told me he wasn't overly impressed by it either and we'd work it out in the new year. i was lucky I had 2 weeks holiday to dwell on it (and lose sleep etc) so that my mind was made up before I even got back to work.

Once I had indicated I had applied they bumbed up my package by 15% from the previous year. This was higher than the new position but for me, it was an opportunity to get back into some real engineering (rather than people management) and to say goodbye to weekend work.

My new employer stuck with their initial offer, as they didn't want to attract people only for the money.

There is one advantage if you do tell them and they give you a counter offer. All of you pay and leave that you get paid out when you finish will all be at the higher rate. I ended up about $750 better off because I had the counter offer!


I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you're looking to move it's not all about the money. If you make all of your career decisions based on the dollar, then you might miss out on some great opportuniies. Also bewary of a 40% increase. My concern is that they might expect you to do a LOT more for the 40%, so tread carefully and make sure you ask plenty of questions about the new role. Do they want you to work away from home for long periods of time? Do they expect you to work weekends and late nights on a regular basis?

I chased the job rather than the money, and through honesty and maintaining my integrity I still have a good relationship with my previous employer (who works closely with my current employer), I am happier in my career and although the little bit of extra cash would be nice, I'd rather have my weekends and life back than be able to buy a few extra DVD's or a better couch.

Summary of my thoughts on the situation:
1. Be honest - With you current employer and new employer
2. Apart from money what are the advantages?
3. Make sure you know what you're getting yourself in to.
4. If you get another offer it might increase your payout when you leave

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

How about just asking your current employer for a raise without threatening to quit and see what they come up with? Tell them you feel grossly under-compensated, there is a lot of salary information on-line you could use as  the basis rather then the other job offer.

My experience has been that management will hold it against you if threaten to leave for more money, whoever gave you that advice in your original post was right on.   I do like JAE's approach, but I suspect there's very few managers that thoughtful.  

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

Let's say that you decide to stay.  I think that, henceforth, you will always be regarded as one with an eye on the employment pages.
 

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

BlastResistant,

Money isn't everything, in my part of the world China is driving a commodity boom that has seen alot of structural engineers heading off to remote mine sites for enormous salaries,sometimes twice what they would be earning in the city. You have got to look at the circumstances.  You could be working longer hours, which does limit your lifestyle.

When I was looking for work 12 months ago, money came second when I was making my decision, I would definatley be looking to work at the firm where I can gain the most professional development.

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

BlastResistant,

JAE and the others provide some valuable insights.  Before you do anything regarding your current employer, make sure you have the new offer in writing.  You do not have to immediately accept it.  Take a couple of days and use them wisely.  Depending upon your rapport with your current boss, (everyone's situation tends to be different), it might very well be worthwhile discussing with them the offer and potential opportunities it could provide.  If the reasons for leaving are there regardless of salary then running your current employer through the counter offer loop is a futile excercise.

You know your situation, work, and environment.  Weigh the factors and decide.  From your posting, it appears you are being professional and being treated professionally.  The choice is yours.

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

Structural engineers still earn comparatively little money, the best thing you can do for the industry is sell your services to the highest bidder!

 

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

Wow, csd72! That's a very jaded and somewhat cynical point of view.

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

I was in a similar situation about two years ago (underpaid by clueless management). Most of the engineering dept at my company evaporated around me seeking opportunities (better pay) elsewhere. When management finally realized that the staff had been underpaid, most had already left. I came out ahead in the deal: I stayed and got two substantial raises (~20% each) about two months apart as the engineering pay rates were re-evaluated.

It is possible that your management truly doesn't know that the staff is underpaid. Present the +40% offer to your manager as a helpful reality check rather than as a threat.

 

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

frv,

Not jaded, just practical. I really think that too many engineers enjoy their job too much and so are not as cutthroat in selling their services. Whereas if you are a lawyer or an accountant you couldnt possibly be doing it for the enjoyment so you would fight more for the salary.

By the way, This is a view that I share with at least a dozen of my previous co-workers. One of these people said that he would not let his daughter become an engineer.

NKT,

Your experience reflects one of mine in the UK.

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

Bob,

I tried your method of walking in and asking for a raise... it did not work at all. I guess it depends on your boss.

Then I walked in and quit and my boss was rather shocked.
I gave my boss three really good indications that I was not content before leaving, but either he didn't care or didn't get the point.
(Obviously these are Para phrased)
First attempt, the one guy quit and I an now the big man, can I get a raise and can I get RISA2D.
ANS: NO
Second attempt- my yearly review, could I get a little bigger raise since I have become very good at what I do.
ANS: No, I think 2.5% is fine
Third attempt, can I get some training with the engineers in other branches of the company to meet people I work with. I have become very knowledgeable at what I do so Joe, Bob (PE), and John (PE) respect my engineering. Can I get paid $X which is a reasonable market rate.
ANS: No. Your next review we will talk about it.
Forth try: I quit
ANS: What do you want?  Why would you quit?

Maybe my Boss was bad or maybe he couldn't get money because of Company Policies.

But, I think you need to walk in the offer so your boss knows you're serious.
 

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

Gymmeh 2.5% is not a raise that doesnt even keep up with inflation!

If I got a 'raise' like that I would have my CV (resume) out the next day.

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

By the sounds of it depends why you were looking.

If it's primarily for the money and you're otherwise happy then in some situations, like if JAE is your boss, it sounds like it's worth talking to your boss and maybe getting a counter offer.

However, it seems that if you're leaving for other reasons then the extra money you may get at your current place is just a band aid and in a few months you'll be back to where you were feeling disgruntled etc.

If you are being grossly under paid/compensated etc. then there are probably other associated issues than just the $ on your pay check.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

If JAE were your boss, it would be worth staying with the firm just to receive his sage advice on daily basis!

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

Shouldn't it be management's responsibility to keep up with what competitive salaries are??

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

A very interesting thread and like many others I agree with JAE.

Just a couple of points that I don't think anyone has brought up, the companies that pay the most are often the worst not the best. Take as an example bringing up a child who is the better parent, one that spends time with the child to go and watch them play sport or goes out on bike rides with them, reads to them, cooks them a well balanced diet and generally tries to develop a healthy mind and body or one that locks them in a room but buys them every new toy on the market and feeds them constant fast food? Money isn't everything, however that will not stop little Johnny wanting a new toy because his friend has one.

The second thing as someone who owns a company you have to make the books balance and that includes putting a little by for a rainy day. Markets change and if you are paying the absolute top dollar that leaves little room for manoeuvre with a market down turn and whilst someone who pays a lower rate can absorb this for a while this is not so for a top paying company, the likelihood of redundancy is far greater. Of course you can choose to take the big money now and deal with that problem if and when it arrives or try to minimise it in the first place.

Having said that 40% is a huge raise and one it would be foolish not to consider.
 

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

Quote:

Shouldn't it be management's responsibility to keep up with what competitive salaries are??

Nope, but it's a good idea if they want to keep employees from leaving for more money.  Small companies especially may not have access to a good source of competitive salary data.  Sometimes it's employees leaving that's the first indication that the pay scale is out of whack.

Money is the nomber one factor for most people when choosing between two jobs, but people tend to leave an established job because of their work environment (boss), not money.  If you were looking, then it's probably because of your work environment, and that won't change even if they to give you more money.

40% is a big jump.  If it's for the same work hours and travel expectations it's a no-brainer.

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

Maybe it's just my present situation that makes me feel like this, but I very highly doubt that many managers are as understanding and practical as JAE.

 

V

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

"Shouldn't it be management's responsibility to keep up with what competitive salaries are?? "

I would have thought it was managements responsibility to get the best value for pay.  As such simplistically it's probably in their interests to keep pay on the low side but high enough to have reasonable retention.

VC66, I hear what you're saying, but there are some good bosses around.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

I tend to agree with csd.  In the structural engineering community, I think we know a heck of a lot for what we receive.  ... And then there is the liability.

For my part, I have worked for six organizations, and eight bosses along the way.  Yes, I didn't quit the job, I quit my manager.  While looking, I found a better paying job, but usually for another poor manager.  I would like to say that most of the managerial difficulties I noted were initiated by poor bean-counter policies from the top that the managers were stuck with.

Finally, I didn't give my managers a chance to counter after the first.  The first made some oblique promise that I would be much happier to stay and that I should give him a chance to talk about it at my next review.  I turned the other offer down and my manager forgot all about it by the end of the year.  After that, if I was unhappy enough to look for a job, I wasn't negotiating with them anymore.  I also wanted potential employers to know if I was talking to them I wasn't just going to use their offer as leverage against my old boss.

Make sure you like the job, and get paid as much as you can.

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

CSD,

Yes, I think the current inflation is far beyond 2.5%.

If, I was a jerk I should have asked my boss if he wanted me to work less 2.5% less, since I was technique getting a pay decrease.
 

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

vc66, I guess all the managers I've had have been pretty good to just OK.  Since I've been on both sides of the manager-staff positions, it's amazing to me the psychology that goes into how each side thinks.

As a manager, I found it incredibly difficult to know what to pay someone.  I wanted to be fair, competitive, keep the staff happy, ...all of that.  

But as a manager, I knew that our ability to get work and make a profit as a company depended on us not paying too much.  Salary surveys helped a bit, but each person is unique, our city was unique, our firm had unique markets, etc. so the comparisons to the surveys were tenuous at best.

The owners of the firm had invested their own money, their own risks (houses at risk if firm failed) and many years of blood, sweat and tears.  They do deserve a profit from their risks.  The question is always how much is appropriate.  

What ultimately happens is the firms who pay the "right amount" tend to keep staff, improve quality and keep clients coming back and still maintain a profit.

Firms that tend to underpay loose staff, develop poor quality or variable quality work, and loose clients but, for the short term, get a larger profit.

Firms that tend to pay too much don't make a profit and may ultimately sell out to another firm...or the owners might break up the partnership when one or more decide they want to at least get a profit from their risk.

It's all a balancing act.

 

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

A funny story,

One job offer I got contained an error, the employer had accidentally added an extra zero making it over half million a year.

When I called to accept the offer I said that I would love to accept that salary but I think he would go broke pretty quickly!

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

(OP)
Thanks everyone for your thoughts. You've all been really helpful.

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

Once again I agree with the last post from JAE, however I think it goes deeper than that.

Take Joe and Fred for example, they both do the same job but in different offices, Joe thinks he is worth more money than Fred because he works in a more expensive area, Fred thinks he is worth the same money as Joe as he does the same job, which one is correct?

Of course it need not be location, one may have more experience but the other be more highly qualified, nearly all employees (and employers) have strengths and weaknesses how do you put a relative value on them? To add to that if you give one employee a 40% raise that may keep them happy for a while but more likely than not it will have everyone else in the company looking for a new job or at the very least highly unmotivated. An almost impossible balancing act.
 

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

I recently made a move from a very large company to a very small company.  Knowing that there would be no counteroffer (corporate culture was something like "it is a privelege to work at XXX, how dare you expect us to counteroffer"), I just bailed.

The move was right for me.  Big salary increase, more challenging and work from home.  I think I extended my life by a few years.

 

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

Great thread --

I appreciate all the thoughts and can relate to most of them.

One of my former employers had an even more cynical policy that they taught to managers verbally but avoided putting in writing: "Employees who bring job offers or market salary data in an attempt to negotiate a raise are generally not telling the truth. Do not negotiate. The only acceptable salary data for our market is maintained in Human Resources."

I got about 40% more when I left there, too...

My point is that the reaction of the boss to a job offer can vary from honest and thoughtful discussion (thanks, JAE) to cold, maniacal laughter accompanied by walking papers.  It's hard to advise the OP without knowing the boss and the company.  Gotta make the call based on what you know.

Stimulating!

Good on y'all,

Goober Dave

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

Two different points of view: as a manager that has to decide other's salaries and when I decided to change companies.
a) I'm in my third company in almost 10 yearsworking experience, so I am not exactly a "job-hopper". In any of the former ocasions that I've moved I didn't give opportunity to the company to coutner-offer. There were several reasons for that: 1) I was not feeling being underpaid 2) It was not only the money 3) I think that my relatioship with the comapny would degrade.
Today I speak with former colleagues, I go lunch with them, no bad blood left behind. Of course being both companies "familiar type" there were some moments that I felt that they were not thrilling about my leaving.

As a manager:

I do not share JAE's idea of counter offer. The counter offer, if accepted will only trigger discontent among other workers in the same position. In my previous job, I made a decision to streamline the department, there were far too many persons. Not exactly because of company financial issues but productivity ones. At the same time, there was a boom in the economy that put the a lot of stress in the salary of workshop shopfloor workers (20% yearly increases). As such, my staff started to leave. At first, I tried to cotnract more staff but then I realized that to contract more staff this would create unbalances in the wages of the existent staff. At last, what I did was that everytime that a staff left, I would distribute his salary among the ones that stay. With a redefinition of priorities and reorganization of the department, 4 years later I managed to maintain the direct salary costs in the same level before the boom, happier workers (bigger salary, bigger bonus because there were less "mouths to feed").
The company saved in indirect costs (sick leaves, health insurance, double pay, etc.).

 

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

Blast,
I just went through all of this a little while back. I really enjoyed where I was, but I got a great new opportunity. After I had the offer letter, I wnet to tell my boss that I had gotten an offer and was going to be leaving. I did not mention counter offer or ask for anything. My boss was my mentor and he offered a lot of insight to my situation. He opened my eyes to some potential pitfalls with either situation that I had not realized. After he informed upper management of my decision they called me in. They talked and I mostly listened. I did make it clear that I wasn't leaving because of any perceived wrong. I listened to their offer but ultimately took the new job. No bridges were burned and I am welcome back anytime.

I guess the moral of the story is, don't focus the conversation on money. Just tell them you have accepted an offer and let them react. If they want to counter offer to keep you, they will, if they don't, they won't. Don't be the one to open the pandora's box.

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

Ask youself this:

Is your current company someplace that you really want to work for if you are forced to threaten to leave in order to earn a fair wage?

Playing the counter offer game is a horrible idea.   If the new opportunity seems like something you would be happy with then just leave your current job and don't look back.

Another thing to consider is that if you play the counteroffer game you burn two bridges-your current employer and the prospective employer.  If you turn down their job offer they will surely want to know why.   In  future job searches don't even bother sending them a resume-it will go right in the round file.  If somebody takes the time and effort to interview you and craft a job offer they don't want to be seen as a pawn in your negotiations game.

I read somewhere a number of years back that statistics show that the majority of employees who accept a counter offer end up leaving the company within one year anyway. Either of their own will or escorted out the door by security!

Remember this:  Your boss is NOT your friend.  He is an agent of the company and must act in the best interest of the company, and at the end of the day, he's looking to cover his own ass. He is held accountable to his bosses for the schedules you work to.  When you come to him with a resignation he's thinking: "Oh crap, now the new widget design project isn't going to be finished on time.  The damn VP is gonna have my head on a platter."   Your unfinished project now becomes your managers headache, and he's going to do what it takes to get you to stick around to see your work through to completion.   But since he now sees you as a traitor who can be bought and sold to the highest bidder, he's coming up with a plan B, and that plan DOES NOT involve you.

Not only are you seen as a traitor by management, but your relationship with your co-workers will also never be the same.  When word gets out that you threatened to quit, and trust me, it will, you will certainly be the topic of water cooler discussions.  Don't be surprised if your actions foster resentment in some co-wokers and inspires similar actions in others.

Bottom line:

Playing the counteroffer game poisons the water.   In nearly every case it will come back to haunt you.  
 

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

My reply above might seem a bit extreme, and it might not be that bad in your case, but accepting a counter offer might hurt you in very subtle ways, maybe as far out as 10 years down the road.   When a big new project or possible promotion comes up, you will likely be passed over.  Management does not want to give the responsibility of being a key player to someone who is likely shopping his or her resume around. You might get passed over for training.  Again, why invest in an employee who could give two weeks notice at any time.

I am in no way saying that you have to be a loyal employee.  I'm not.  If a better oppotunity came along tomorrow I would be gone.  But it is important to give your employer the impression that you are a loyal employee.  I don't care where you work, or who you think you are, or what you think of your boss, once he knows you are looking elsewhere, your loyalty will always be in question as long as you stay with the company.

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

OK - I think I'll respond to a few of the comments above regarding the big bad "counter-offer game".

I think the points presented by spongebob007, lowedogg,and MedicineEng about the negatives of taking a counter offer are pretty valid except in cases where the relationship between the manager and the staff member is on a more professional collaborative level than say in an industrial manager vs. worker-bee situation.

In most of my cases, my staff member approached me with an offer that came unsolicited and my engineer really didn't want to leave the firm.  I knew that, he knew that, but we had this offer on the table and the market for engineers is the market - as a manager I must respect it in context.

So my staff member trusted me that I would handle the situation calmly and as an opportunity to test how much I valued them.  

You can adjust a salary many times without disrupting the salaries of those around you.  It is difficult, but it can be done.

But if the manager-staff relationship is more formal or adversarial then yes, counter-offer routines can get nasty.

 

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

JAE, I wish more managers worked along your lines, the working world might just be a better place.  In companies with several levels of management though, even if your direct boss is good, there's a high liklihood that somewhere between him and the final say on these matters there is someone who doesn't play like you.

If I found myself in this situation it wouldn't be my direct boss's future actions I'd be concerned about, it would be his boss on up and into HR etc.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

I have never heard of an engineer getting an unsolicited job offer.

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

My response to JAE:

I think your situation is the exception and not the rule.  Again, maybe I am inserting foot squarely in mouth since I don't work in SE/CE, but I have never heard of engineers being given unsolicited job offers out of the blue.   

Believe me, I know exactly what I am talking about.  It took me two negative personal experiences: One where I resigned and then accepted a counter offer, and another where I threatend to quit because I didn't get a promotion I was promised.  In the first case I was fired for bogus reasons literally days after the project I was working on when I gave my 2wk notice was completed.  In the 2nd case I was given the promotion but they strung me along with promises that they never kept(my boss claimed that they could not give me the money all at once because of "budgetary reasons" so they gave me a fancy new title and a token raise immediately with a promise of the rest of the cash in 6 months), and then to add insult to injury I recieved a poor performance review.  I ended up quitting soon after that anyway.    

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

I used to get them all the time, whenever I would get sent out to help a vendor fix a problem.  Sometimes they were just "feelers", other times outright offers, including help with housing and moving.

..of course, those came from the vendors whose troubles I'd helped fix.  The ones whose troubles I'd created, well...

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

Quote:

I have never heard of engineers being given unsolicited job offers out of the blue

Wow...where do you live?  In my city I do think we have an excess of engineers per capita and lots of stealing of staff between firms.

On my staff over the last 15 or so years I've had numerous occasions (i.e. more than 8) where engineers come walking in with an offer that they've recieved.

By unsolicited I mean they were initially contacted by the other firm..not that they didn't pursue an interview after the call.  I don't mean to suggest they just got a phone call one day from someone offering them a salary.

I get calls monthly from head-hunters looking for people or asking for reference information about engineers who used to work for me.  There is demand out there for good engineers.

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

(OP)
JAE is correct. I receive many unsolicited "contacts" not "offers" out of the blue. But they are not head-hunter phone calls. They are professional colleagues or acquaintances I run into at conferences, seminars, etc. who either know me personally or know of my work. However, it is up to me to encourage further dialogue if I choose to. With a stay-at-home wife/mother and three young children under the age of 5, I'd be a fool not to listen to what someone else has to offer, especially if I sense that it will be too good to pass up.

You can call me greedy, you can call me selfish and ungrateful to my current employer who has treated me great and has been nothing but good to me. But my first loyalty is to my family and my first responsibility is to provide as good a life as I can for them; not to to my current employer. I am under no obligation to stay with my current employer for the rest of my life just because I like him and he treats me well. But I do have an obligation to my family.

I am wondering JAE, as a manager, you can understand where I am coming from, can't you?

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

Yes, I understand completely.

That is why my earlier posts indicated the concept of a manager trying to balance the employees "predicament" when given an offer.  

I simply tried to provide a counter offer to do two things -first to give them a pair of choices that rest more on the job and less on the pay, and second, to balance my responsibility as a manager in keeping staff happy and retained vs. keeping the company profitable.

 

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

To add further to BlastResistants comment:  With a family and especially young children, money's not everything to think about.  Proximity to home, working normal hours, not being required to travel overnight, and being able to take time off for sick wife and kids, etc. all come into play.  I've had to take lesser paying jobs in the past to consider family needs.

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

Quote:

To add further to BlastResistants comment:  With a family and especially young children, money's not everything to think about.  Proximity to home, working normal hours, not being required to travel overnight, and being able to take time off for sick wife and kids, etc. all come into play.  I've had to take lesser paying jobs in the past to consider family needs.

Most of my offers have be ~10% more than my current pay.  In fact, I got into a little argument with the last head-hunter because the offer I received was exactly 10% more than my current salery as stated on my application.  They were kinda shocked when I told them that my bonus pay for the previous year was over 10%.  I came to find out that it was standard practice for them to offer 10% more to try to lure someone away from their current position.  I was a little upset that they were offering my a salery that was based on my current salery.  Why not pay me what I'm worth?

10% is a healthy increase for me and my family.

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

Agh! Headhunters!
Whose interests do they serve? yours or the employers?

Neither, they serve their own first and foremost.
That means you come a poor third; they will handle you perhaps once and they hope for repeat business from their corporate clients.

Companies that pay well will tend to keep staff and thus have fewer vacancies.
If the headhunter can find the right amount for you to accept the offer, but not too much, they know you may be looking around again soon and that will leave them another vacancy to fill.

Even so, what kind of headhunter doesn't properly understand what package a potential employee already enjoys? They just waste your time, their time and their client's time.

 

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

AutoXer,
That is exactly why you NEVER tell them what you are currently making. Your offer will be limited to some % above that number.

You can (very professionally) decline to discuss your current salary and focus instead on what your responsibilities will be, what your qualifications are, and what the value of your unique skills are to their organization.

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

lowedogg,
I agree with you on not disclosing current salaries.  It serves you no purpose to declare this, and only establishes a ball park for the agent and his client.  I have been in situations where I have had to take low paying jobs, so declaring your salary only traps you into the "cheap" category - and you can be stuck with that reputation.
As you say, there are ways to get around the question - I simply (and correctly) say that that information is confidential between me and my current / former employer.  The agent / client holds all the other cards, why give him the only one that you have to play?
Regards,
Bill

RE: Give current boss opportunity to match better job offer or just quit?

Hello OP,

i dont know what you have decided. But, this link may help you.

http://www.rediff.com/money/2008/jul/01forbes.htm

but, i had a better experience becuase i did not leave the start up company when it was important. Eventhough i was not rewarded interms of money, Still i maintain good relationship with the owner and may help if i would go on my own.  

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