GPA Vs. Experiance
GPA Vs. Experiance
(OP)
We all know that better grades lead to better jobs.
I am one of those that has managed to, I feel, excel at jobs, however I am one of those less then 3.0/4.0 people.
Now with two internships and a year and 5 months of work experience I have set out to get into a more comfortable job position.
So I had, what I thought were two excellent interviews for a company for a design engineer position which was presented as a position which calculations were rare and basically design falls under "fair judgment" on industrial equipment, and working with drafters to bring the design together for the Project engineer. They had me do a couple aptitude tests which I breezed through, one question I even answer just looking at the paper while it was in the interviewer's hand.
My current position requires calculations or a reference to back up anything I do -so people don't get hurt-, inspections, and almost total authority over designs.
Basically the new job seems one step back from the math intense/extreme details, and I thought this new job was a done deal!
Today I got an email saying they had some concern about my GPA (which is a 2.4/4.0), which was just quickly asked during the interview and never brought up again.
I laughed when I read it! you have got to be kidding me?
I wrote up a Email saying, What course work do you consider relevant to this position? I will gladly send you my transcript showing A and B in all classes which seam relevant to this position.
I also wrote about getting B's in two grad level engineering classes, and the fact that I was involved in Rugby, multiple intramural sports, battle bot team, An engineering fraternity, a job, and I also applied for a Patent, etc. (e.i. my grades are not low because of partying!)
I didn't email them because I thought it best to run this by the Best Qualified judges of all things engineering... the Eng-tips Crowd.
I have to assume they interviewed someone with an amazing GPA. How do I tell them that the job presented is not worthy of a High GPA person, and my experience should trump my GPA?
Should I ask if I could stop in and talk to them about my GPA, and that it does not reflect my potential?
Just destroyed my weekend...![[bomb] bomb](https://www.tipmaster.com/images/bomb.gif)
Thanks & have a good weekend
I am one of those that has managed to, I feel, excel at jobs, however I am one of those less then 3.0/4.0 people.
Now with two internships and a year and 5 months of work experience I have set out to get into a more comfortable job position.
So I had, what I thought were two excellent interviews for a company for a design engineer position which was presented as a position which calculations were rare and basically design falls under "fair judgment" on industrial equipment, and working with drafters to bring the design together for the Project engineer. They had me do a couple aptitude tests which I breezed through, one question I even answer just looking at the paper while it was in the interviewer's hand.
My current position requires calculations or a reference to back up anything I do -so people don't get hurt-, inspections, and almost total authority over designs.
Basically the new job seems one step back from the math intense/extreme details, and I thought this new job was a done deal!
Today I got an email saying they had some concern about my GPA (which is a 2.4/4.0), which was just quickly asked during the interview and never brought up again.
I laughed when I read it! you have got to be kidding me?
I wrote up a Email saying, What course work do you consider relevant to this position? I will gladly send you my transcript showing A and B in all classes which seam relevant to this position.
I also wrote about getting B's in two grad level engineering classes, and the fact that I was involved in Rugby, multiple intramural sports, battle bot team, An engineering fraternity, a job, and I also applied for a Patent, etc. (e.i. my grades are not low because of partying!)
I didn't email them because I thought it best to run this by the Best Qualified judges of all things engineering... the Eng-tips Crowd.
I have to assume they interviewed someone with an amazing GPA. How do I tell them that the job presented is not worthy of a High GPA person, and my experience should trump my GPA?
Should I ask if I could stop in and talk to them about my GPA, and that it does not reflect my potential?
Just destroyed my weekend...
![[bomb] bomb](https://www.tipmaster.com/images/bomb.gif)
Thanks & have a good weekend





RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
Also take the chance to emphasize your work experience and how that makes you a great candidate for their position.
I've been in industry for 17 yrs and have changed companies 3 times and interviewed multiple times for those changes. Some managers will pick out certain aspects to focus in on and thats just their mind set. Also you should think about what they say it could be an indicator of a place you might not want to go.
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
The bottom line is you just never know exactly what trips an employer's trigger. You have no control over that. Perhaps they're looking for someone w/ more rounded education (i.e. better grades in writing & English). Maybe they've been burned before by low GPA candidates. There's no way to tell. It's only one employer, so I wouldn't worry about this being a trend.
Try to stay in your first job 3 years if you can. Less does not look good on a resume.
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
With the exception of my initial job out of College, I have not provided my GPA on my resume. When asked, I emphasised grades in my Engineering discipline.
Good luck.
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
Your offer to send your transcript is good, I'm a little surprised they hadn't requested it already. They must have an interest in you, or they wouldn't even give you a chance to explain the low GPA. Calculate your "engineering" or "technical" GPA, which would comprise all of your classes from the college of engineering and any other technical type classes you might have taken. Assuming this is 3.0 or better, you can prove that you have the technical ability but maybe had a hard time in some of the classes that maybe were not so interesting or important to you (don't state it as that, though). Make sure the response you actually send them is well drafted and error free, do NOT use any internet/text lingo such as U R (you are), etc. How your response is received will probably make the difference between the company dumping your resume or considering your explanation and giving you a chance.
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
I have always hired people who somehow paid their way through college - either by jobs or athletic scholarships.
Always found these people to be more out going and hard working. Does this apply to you.... It did to me personally. I always worked at least 20 hours per week to pay my way - or most of it....
Good Luck
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
Seriously, you never thought an engineering firm would be apprehensive about hiring someone with a 2.4??
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
... and fix the grammar/spelling errors in the first couple of sentences.
Have someone proof your email before you send it.
It sounds like nitpicking, but when there is little real evidence to judge you on, then people will use what they have in front of them. That's why we wear suits to an interview and make sure to put our best foot forward. That's also why you're getting flack about your GPA. It makes up a considerable percentage of what they know about you.
-b
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
I did not really think about it in terms of, the percentage of what they know about me is small enough that GPA is really important.
abusementpark, yes i understand 2.4 is low, I will elaborate little more. After telling them about the amount of stress and deflection analysis it do at my current job, I asked them what kind of analysis do they do for their design, stress/deflection/moment? They replied "we dont do much analysis but when we do we use an FEA program." Then I asked if my position would be involved in analysis and they said no. So based in this I assumed they would not care about GPA since extensive math would not be necessary.
So yes given the situation I didn't think GPA would matter.
Mike, I worked ever semester and break except when I was doing Study Abroad.
I will be send them the email today.
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
From what I've seen the US more so than the UK is hung up on academic grades/GPA.
Now I didn't do that well academically (in my case in part due to partying
I'm not saying getting a good GPA isn't important as it demonstrates the ability to learn (and all that entails) and a basic understanding/schooling in relevant areas. However, it's only part of the story.
We have a fairly large intern program at our site, between 15-20 interns every 6 months (some stay a year) from Europe. The guy that heads up the intern program tends to pick primarily by GPA. My boss on the other hand, while still in my opinion overly concerned with GPA, will look at other things like extra curricular activities, relevant year out/previous internships etc. He always tries to do phone interviews but occasionally this doesn't work out and/or sometimes pickings are slim so the internship coordinator ends up picking interns for us.
We have had a lot of trouble with some of the high GPA candidates. They don't tend to work as hard, tend to be a bit arrogant, have a sense of entitlement, object to doing anything they perceive a menial or below them... On the other hand the best intern in my opinion, certainly the most productive, had the lowest GPA.
The fact is that many managers/recruiters in the States won't normally take less than a certain GPA, no matter how well suited the applicant may otherwise be. Just because you wont even be applying much of what was covered by the course you have the GPA in doesn't change this, they want a 3.0 or whatever regardless. They may even prefer a 3.0 in a less directly relevant degree than a 2.5 or whatever in a directly applicable one.
So you may just have to face the fact that no matter why you have the lower GPA, many recruiters wont car and will rule you out almost immediately.
Contacting them in this case is appropriate. I'd focus more on reminding them of relevant experience and pointing out better grades in directly relevant subjects and worry less about making excuses. Certainly say you'd be willing to discuss your GPA in more detail but at the first contact I wouldn't have your excuse list there for them to pick apart.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
Most jobs here in Blighty just ask for a Desmond or better, once you've been through the interview stage. But you konw that of course.
So, in a vague attempt to answer the OP, (in the UK) experience trumps grades, so long as the grades are Desmond+ and the Uni was among the right ones.
- Steve
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
After Re-reading that thread, i noticed I said, "Obviously [my bosses] leniency may come to an end..." Which it has, and further drives my desire to change jobs.
KENAT: I normally can defend myself if given a chance, the problem is they email me late Friday that my gpa was low and they were going to make a decision Friday, and contact me today (Monday).
The problem is I an often set in this position with no chance to show that my grades relevant to the job are A and B's, and that I was involved in activities with improve teamwork and social skills. Its like getting jumped by 5 guys, you have not chance...
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
Got my Desmond and from a proper school so like you say, most people don't care. BAE systems, DERA/Qinetiq & DESO, were the only ones that even asked about it as I recal.
Gymmeh, don't worry a lot of the time your resume is likely to get sent to the round filing cabinet due to your GPA before you ever get a chance to discuss it with them.
On your Resume you could give what I think is a "Technical GPA" or something. Basically give your GPA for just technical subjects as well as your overall - if this helps you. For me this would be of no help as all my classes were technical except the combined law/managment/accountancy course (in which I got one of my best grades!).
I wish you the best of luck but low GPA in the States seems like a real hurdle. Once you have a few more years under your belt it may be less of an issue but may make those first few years difficult.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
I would say that if it's coming down to your GPA, then you didn't "wow" them enough. Usually, if an applicant is impressive, we'll tend to overlook factors like GPAs, since they're only gross indicators in any case. The interviews themselves usually outweigh the static factors, unless the interviews were only so-so.
So, I would recommend doing more interviewing practice. Provide reasoned answers, but don't take too long at it. Be enthusiastic and project a go-get'em attitude. It's proposal time
TTFN
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RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
One item to consider would be to compare your GPA with the average of the school, if it is helpful. My GPA was almost exactly average for BSME's where I went to college, but is low in comparison with graduates from other schools.
Also, I think it is a good sign that the company contacted you instead of just rejecting you based on the GPA. Apparently you made a good impression and with a well-reasoned, intelligent response I think you have a good potential to get the position. My only suggestion beyond what has already been stated is be sure to explain your GPA, and do not make excuses. This can be a fine line, with subtle differences in wording the only difference.
Best of luck to you!
- MechEng2005
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
I would not worry about the grades. Let's see wasn't it Thomas Edison and Winston Churchill who were never supposed to amount to anything. Maybe in the interest of getting another job you are settling on a company you will not be happy with. If you have an expectation of a certain level of detail you are comfortable with now, you may feel less than professional making decisions based on gut feel at the new place. The grades do not make a good engineer. Engineering is like a bridge between the pure sciences or technology and the industrial trades. A good engineer is able to communicate with the Research Scientist or the Machinist. As far as grade inflation at many schools goes, it is called cheating! Some who are breezing through at major universities are not doing it honestly. I would rather hire an engineer who worked through school or one with good communication skills and integrity rather than a super grade point average. Best wishes.
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
Are you insinuating that people with high GPA's cheat? I take exception to that!
I graduated with a 3.86 overall and 3.92 technical GPA and not only did I not cheat, but I took a test to a professor once when he marked an answer right that I actually had wrong, and it ended up being the difference between an A and an A- (for the semester, not the test).
I put very little effort into anything outside of class, but I paid close attention during class, took good notes, and smoked all of the tests.
Grades are the way we determine who is learning and progressing and who is not.... to make a blanket statement that people with a high GPA cheated is completely inappropriate. Maybe the people with the low GPA should pay more attention in class instead of laughing and cracking jokes while the rest of us are trying to learn.
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
You just need to assure them that you are not a hit and miss type of engineer and that you take your job very seriously.
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
It tends to get a litte heated so unless the OP wants this thread to go that way I suggest we stop here.
There's already one post above that's so arrogant I'm having trouble not responding. However, I have enough important stuff to stress about tho' so Eng-Tips, no offence, aint worth it.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
I was looking for more of, why, when everything seems reasonable, related work experience, passing an aptitude test, passing one phone interview and two in person interviews, (plus i live a block away
ykee, Krautso, KENAT and some other hit on, that fact that its out of my control. who knows what it is, internal politics, my hair is to brown, whatever it may be.
Its just really frustrating.
I dont know if its a good sign, but i sent the email Saturday and have not heard from them yet... the told me they were going to make a decision Friday.
Thank you all
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
Generally not hearing is probably a bad sign but at my current place I didn't hear for a few days and it was just because HR didn't get their poop in a group. The offer came through about a week later than my now manager had anticipated.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
TTFN
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RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
And to what end? Where's the proof that being a member of a sports team translates into being a team player at work?
TTFN
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RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
I would tend to agree with ykee,
I would not say you should use activities as an excuse for bad grades, but consider involvement in activities support for your personality?
IRstuff, To the same extent that working an internship through college does not "really" prove anything unless you talked to the boss. I know some people who brag about their internship being a complete joke, where they surfed the internet and played Fantasy sports. I also know others which just moved stuff around, filed papers, and got people coffee.
Yet wouldn't you assume the person knows a little more about engineering?
The same way some people assume sports may show, ability to play with others, commitment, etc...
If everything was set in stone we wouldnt need this "How to Improve Myself to Get Ahead FAQ"???
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
Not really. We've got this amusing question on our website for potential applicants, asking if they're familiar with a particular analysis program. 3 times out of 4, a positive answer results in, "Yes, I watched over someone's shoulder while they ran that program," when asked during the interview.
So, ultimately, if you do put something like that on your resume, you might get queried about it, or you might not, but if you do get queried, you'd better have a decent answer, otherwise, it'll hurt you more than it would help.
TTFN
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RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
So an update,
Apparently my persistence paid off cuz I got the job, made a counter offer, accepted the job and turned in my 2 weeks!
FINALLY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The best part of the whole thing was talking to the head engineer of my company- which is on the other side of the US- and having him tell me he just turned in his 2 weeks. I told him "can I call you back in 5 minutes," handed in my two weeks, and then called him back and said, yeah I just handed mine in to!
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
- Honor fraternity;
- Part-time jobs in college offices;
- Student chapters of ASME, etc.
I got a solid reference from faculty in the ME dept. This particular prof also was our fraternity faculty advisor. I entered an ASME paper contest, and that ref went on the resume. So, there are activities, and there are good activities.
Having a good reference has a way of saving your life. One character in an early job at a big company was out to 'kill' me, but the reference confirmation was strong and bullet proof. I kept my job for ten years and gained retirement earnings.
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
I also have a low GPA that i attribute it to extracurricular activities.Also not all activities are irrelevant to your major, for example FSAE.
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
I will too when I'm eventually promoted to such a position. I've always had absolutely no respect for kids partying off of daddy's dollar. You tend to learn discipline and time management under our circumstances.
You never know how much time you have until you realize how much you waste. I've actually heard classmates complain about not having time to study with no job! I worked full time until my last semester. I very rarely missed time due to finals week; I needed the money too much. My last semester, my now-wife supported me while I took six classes.
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
As an SE going back for my masters, it will never be erased in the eyes of the university. I have 5 yrs experience, and passed SE1 and SE2 and they still honed in on my GPA. I think you'd need to have face to face discussions with the professors and maybe an arrangement could be made. Depends on where you want to go too.
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
My Uni. will let you take one semester worth of classes. If you get >3.0 on all the classes they will let you in for grad school, Although this may be for Alumni and not everyone.
"Students applying for admission with a quality point average less than 3.0 or without a B.S. in Mechanical or Aerospace Engineering may occasionally be admitted on a provisional basis, depending on the circumstances of their case and their letters of recommendation. Admission on a provisional basis requires that the student obtain a grade of B or higher in each of the first three graduate courses taken." from my Uni.
http
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
The University of Idaho offers a graduate certificate in structural engineering through engineering outreach. It is 12 hours, you choose from a limited number of classes which to take. The minimum GPA to enroll is 2.80. Once completed, the hours can be applied towards a MS. You could probably also take those hours and prove to the program of your choice that you can do the work. Most programs will transfer up to 9 hours from another university.
http
Missouri University of Science and Technology (formerly University of Missouri-Rolla) has something similar, as does a Florida university. I'm sure other universities do as well.
http://dce
http://www
You will probably have to start with something like this, as most universities are going to be a stickler about GPA. Good luck.
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
As an old player myself (not of any quality though) I'd have sympathy for any forward managing 2.4, with constant concussion/hangover for the entire playing season that isn't a bad achievment.
If you were a girly back though, then there's no excuse
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
Girly!!! i played 9 and 11! ha no excuse!!! Those b' fightin' words!!!!!
I was always on the B team....IE not the best player, but I did play and not sit the bench!
What position did you play??
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
Sadly I was the 4th best back row player out of a squad with about 6 or 7 people that wanted to play back row. Our squad was always short of good backs though. So I'd often get stuck out on a wing, defensively I did fine there, offensively... That or get loaned to an opposition short a player, this annoyed me so I'd take it out on my team-mates! Did some bench time too.
Played Prop for intramural team a bit when I got older & fatter at Uni but I'd injured my knee at highschool so combined with not being able to catch a cold let alone a ball my career didn't go far!
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
I was one of the faster/ nimble people so I was good offensively at wing but, I was not even good cannon fodder on defense...
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
GPA tend to be the measure of how hard you work and you ability to learn, but it doesn't make you a good engineer. It is good for motivating your kid to study hard at school
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
Hg
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RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
I would just like to offer this up - GPA (and IMO where you went to school) matter very little 8, 10, 15 years after you graduate. Here is my reasoning: I don't believe for a second that there is a single engineering program that will prepare you to step into any firm and hit the ground running. I am not saying that I don't think some people can do that, but I am saying that I don't believe it is a function of the school but more a function of the person. That being said, as a general rule it is safe to assume that fresh grads can not hit the ground running. With that premise in mind, I also don't believe there are many (if any) engineers with a PE that couldn't breeze through any undergrad engineering program in the country. If that is true, the experiece seems to be much more of a player (at least to me). When you are coming out of school, however, this is obviously something people base their decisions on.
As for the GPA, this is the same thing. 10 years after graduation virtually any PE can go through virtually any engineering program (at least undergrad) and probably breeze through with a 4.0 (or at least pretty close to it). This leads me to believe that GPA is irrelevant after years of experience, but again, this is one of the things that we are judged by when graduating.
RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
Hg
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RE: GPA Vs. Experiance
With that said, I dont think there's any definite way to go about it, but when I hire I at least want to know GPA to try and see how the person progressed (or recessed) since graduation.
As for a masters, I think it still makes quite a bit of difference even 10 yrs down the road unless that person has had some great mentors.