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GPA Vs. Experiance
5

GPA Vs. Experiance

GPA Vs. Experiance

(OP)
We all know that better grades lead to better jobs.

I am one of those that has managed to, I feel, excel at jobs, however I am one of those less then 3.0/4.0 people.  

Now with two internships and a year and 5 months of work experience I have set out to get into a more comfortable job position.

So I had, what I thought were two excellent interviews for a company for a design engineer position which was presented as a position which calculations were rare and basically design falls under "fair judgment" on industrial equipment, and working with drafters to bring the design together for the Project engineer.  They had me do a couple aptitude tests which I breezed through, one question I even answer just looking at the paper while it was in the interviewer's hand.

My current position requires calculations or a reference to back up anything I do -so people don't get hurt-, inspections, and almost total authority over designs.
Basically the new job seems one step back from the math intense/extreme details, and I thought  this new job was a done deal!

Today I got an email saying they had some concern about my GPA (which is a 2.4/4.0), which was just quickly asked during the interview and never brought up again.   

I laughed when I read it! you have got to be kidding me?

I wrote up a Email saying, What course work do you consider relevant to this position? I will gladly send you my transcript showing A and B in all classes which seam relevant to this position.

I also wrote about getting B's in two grad level engineering classes, and the fact that I was involved in Rugby, multiple intramural sports,  battle bot team, An engineering fraternity, a job, and I also applied for a Patent, etc. (e.i. my grades are not low because of partying!)

I didn't email them because I thought it best to run this by the Best Qualified judges of all things engineering... the Eng-tips Crowd.

I have to assume they interviewed someone with an amazing GPA. How do I tell them that the job presented is not worthy of a High GPA person, and my experience should trump my GPA?

Should I ask if I could stop in and talk to them about my GPA, and that it does not reflect my potential?

Just destroyed my weekend...bomb

Thanks & have a good weekend
 

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

I would reply to them to the effect that you were very active (with non party activity)and that you would appreciate the chance to speak them regarding their concerns over gpa.

Also take the chance to emphasize your work experience and how that makes you a great candidate for their position.

I've been in industry for 17 yrs and have changed companies 3 times and interviewed multiple times for those changes.  Some managers will pick out certain aspects to focus in on and thats just their mind set.  Also you should think about what they say it could be an indicator of a place you might not want to go.

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

I think you answered well, putting the best positive spin on a less than flattering GPA.  2.4 is a bit on the low side, especially in this era of grade inflation.

The bottom line is you just never know exactly what trips an employer's trigger.  You have no control over that.  Perhaps they're looking for someone w/ more rounded education (i.e. better grades in writing & English).  Maybe they've been burned before by low GPA candidates.  There's no way to tell.  It's only one employer, so I wouldn't worry about this being a trend.

Try to stay in your first job 3 years if you can.  Less does not look good on a resume.

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

GPA's are definitely taken into account for young engineers. From your post, it does not appear that they have flat out rejected your application.  I would advise a response to their email indictating your higher grades in applicable subjects and improvements in GPA during the course of study.

With the exception of my initial job out of College, I have not provided my GPA on my resume. When asked, I emphasised grades in my Engineering discipline.   

Good luck.  

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Even two internships and 1.5 years of experience is not very much to go on.  You have probably only had one documented performance evaluation, if that.  So a lot of what the company has to go on is GPA.  In a few more years, GPA will be a moot point.  I assume this position is basically entry level.  Don't take it too much to heart, it sounds like you have drafted a pretty good reply, putting a positive spin on your GPA.  Definitely do not say anything about the position not requiring a high GPA!

Your offer to send your transcript is good, I'm a little surprised they hadn't requested it already.  They must have an interest in you, or they wouldn't even give you a chance to explain the low GPA.  Calculate your "engineering" or "technical" GPA, which would comprise all of your classes from the college of engineering and any other technical type classes you might have taken.  Assuming this is 3.0 or better, you can prove that you have the technical ability but maybe had a hard time in some of the classes that maybe were not so interesting or important to you (don't state it as that, though).  Make sure the response you actually send them is well drafted and error free, do NOT use any internet/text lingo such as U R (you are), etc.  How your response is received will probably make the difference between the company dumping your resume or considering your explanation and giving you a chance.

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Sorry - just had to say this -  learn how to spell "experience"

I have always hired people who somehow paid their way through college - either by jobs or athletic scholarships.

Always found these people to be more out going and hard working.  Does this apply to you.... It did to me personally. I always worked at least 20 hours per week to pay my way - or most of it....

Good Luck

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

"I laughed when I read it! you have got to be kidding me?"

Seriously, you never thought an engineering firm would be apprehensive about hiring someone with a 2.4??
 

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Quote:

Sorry - just had to say this -  learn how to spell "experience"

... and fix the grammar/spelling errors in the first couple of sentences.

Have someone proof your email before you send it.

It sounds like nitpicking, but when there is little real evidence to judge you on, then people will use what they have in front of them.  That's why we wear suits to an interview and make sure to put our best foot forward.  That's also why you're getting flack about your GPA.  It makes up a considerable percentage of what they know about you.

-b

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Others are more directly saying something I only hinted at: work on your writing.  Bad spelling and poor grammar leave poor impressions.  If any of this bad writing and grammar spills onto your resume, you will have trouble.

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

(OP)
Yeah when I wrote on this forum I was not paying perfect attention to grammar, when I write emails to potential employers I normally proof read them a number of times.

I did not really think about it in terms of, the percentage of what they know about me is small enough that GPA is really important.

abusementpark, yes i understand 2.4 is low, I will elaborate little more. After telling them about the amount of stress and deflection analysis it do at my current job, I asked them what kind of analysis do they do for their design, stress/deflection/moment?  They replied "we dont do much analysis but when we do we use an FEA program."  Then I asked if my position would be involved in analysis and they said no.  So based in this I assumed they would not care about GPA since extensive math would not be necessary.
So yes given the situation I didn't think GPA would matter.

Mike, I worked ever semester and break except when I was doing Study Abroad.

I will be send them the email today.

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

To be honest, I don't recommend telling them you received bad grades because you were in rugby, working, or in intramural sports.  This indicates you cant manage your time effectively and/or don't have priorities straight.  I sure wouldn't want one of my guys not getting his project done because of softball practice.

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Details matter my young padawan, not just in emails to employers, always. 1 mistake can cause a power systems, or bridge, or building, or whatever mechanicial engineers work on (smile) fail. Things you may not think matter in this stage in your carreer do, in fact matter.   

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Gymmeh,

From what I've seen the US more so than the UK is hung up on academic grades/GPA.

Now I didn't do that well academically (in my case in part due to partyingsad, partly sport, in part due to then undiagnosed dyslexia and in at least in part 'cause I just aint that smart) so maybe some of this is my own slanted view point but I'll share it anyway.

I'm not saying getting a good GPA isn't important as it demonstrates the ability to learn (and all that entails) and a basic understanding/schooling in relevant areas.  However, it's only part of the story.

We have a fairly large intern program at our site, between 15-20 interns every 6 months (some stay a year) from Europe.  The guy that heads up the intern program tends to pick primarily by GPA.  My boss on the other hand, while still in my opinion overly concerned with GPA, will look at other things like extra curricular activities, relevant year out/previous internships etc.  He always tries to do phone interviews but occasionally this doesn't work out and/or sometimes pickings are slim so the internship coordinator ends up picking interns for us.

We have had a lot of trouble with some of the high GPA candidates.  They don't tend to work as hard, tend to be a bit arrogant, have a sense of entitlement, object to doing anything they perceive a menial or below them...  On the other hand the best intern in my opinion, certainly the most productive, had the lowest GPA.

The fact is that many managers/recruiters in the States won't normally take less than a certain GPA, no matter how well suited the applicant may otherwise be.  Just because you wont even be applying much of what was covered by the course you have the GPA in doesn't change this, they want a 3.0 or whatever regardless.  They may even prefer a 3.0 in a less directly relevant degree than a 2.5 or whatever in a directly applicable one.

So you may just have to face the fact that no matter why you have the lower GPA, many recruiters wont car and will rule you out almost immediately.

Contacting them in this case is appropriate.  I'd focus more on reminding them of relevant experience and pointing out better grades in directly relevant subjects and worry less about making excuses.  Certainly say you'd be willing to discuss your GPA in more detail but at the first contact I wouldn't have your excuse list there for them to pick apart.

 

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Woooo KENAT, I have some salt & vinegar for that shoulder of yours winky smile

Most jobs here in Blighty just ask for a Desmond or better, once you've been through the interview stage.  But you konw that of course.

So, in a vague attempt to answer the OP, (in the UK) experience trumps grades, so long as the grades are Desmond+ and the Uni was among the right ones.

- Steve

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

(OP)
Zogzog, I like the use of you padawan. Yes completely understand attention to detail, however I didn't totally understand/think of that when I was in Uni. smile .  Now I pay attention to some details almost to the point of anxiety attacks, cuz I know enough to know the consequences of mistakes. (mechanical engineers sometimes work on cranes winky smile ) . For awhile I have been trying really hard to get into a position with less responsibility, which I am finding more difficult than I thought. Add to that, getting beat up over my gpa is just annoying (this is almost a year old but gives a little background: thread731-196622: New Engineers w/ no mentors Available)

After Re-reading that thread, i noticed I said, "Obviously [my bosses] leniency may come to an end..."  Which it has, and further drives my desire to change jobs.

KENAT: I normally can defend myself if given a chance, the problem is they email me late Friday that my gpa was low and they were going to make a decision Friday, and contact me today (Monday).

The problem is I an often set in this position with no chance to show that my grades relevant to the job are A and B's, and that I was involved in activities with improve teamwork and social skills. Its like getting jumped by 5 guys, you have not chance...
 

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Sompting, probably not enough salt or vinegar.  (By the way, salt and vinegar is awesome on most English Chips, however I have yet to find a fry in America, even the steak ones, that can take the vinegar without becoming a soggy, sour mess.)

Got my Desmond and from a proper school so like you say, most people don't care.  BAE systems, DERA/Qinetiq & DESO, were the only ones that even asked about it as I recal.

Gymmeh, don't worry a lot of the time your resume is likely to get sent to the round filing cabinet due to your GPA before you ever get a chance to discuss it with them.

On your Resume you could give what I think is a "Technical GPA" or something.  Basically give your GPA for just technical subjects as well as your overall - if this helps you.  For me this would be of no help as all my classes were technical except the combined law/managment/accountancy course (in which I got one of my best grades!).

I wish you the best of luck but low GPA in the States seems like a real hurdle.  Once you have a few more years under your belt it may be less of an issue but may make those first few years difficult.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

GPAs are funny, and different companies treat them differently.  I had a 3.2, and was turned down for an interview at Bell Labs, and apparently, they won't even bother to campus interview anyone with less than a 3.6.  That's enough to give anyone an inferiority complex.

I would say that if it's coming down to your GPA, then you didn't "wow" them enough.  Usually, if an applicant is impressive, we'll tend to overlook factors like GPAs, since they're only gross indicators in any case.  The interviews themselves usually outweigh the static factors, unless the interviews were only so-so.

So, I would recommend doing more interviewing practice.  Provide reasoned answers, but don't take too long at it.  Be enthusiastic and project a go-get'em attitude.  It's proposal time winky smile

TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

(OP)
Well, I have gotten to the point where I might stick with Tick's advice and just wait till i get to the 3yr mark and then try to move.  

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

I also had less than 3.0/4.0 GPA. I do think it has been something of a set back, though I think it is mostly that my resume gets "filed" (trashed) before the actual hiring manager gets to look at it. I am assuming here, and haven't actually been told that the GPA is the reason I didn't get the interview though.

One item to consider would be to compare your GPA with the average of the school, if it is helpful. My GPA was almost exactly average for BSME's where I went to college, but is low in comparison with graduates from other schools.

Also, I think it is a good sign that the company contacted you instead of just rejecting you based on the GPA. Apparently you made a good impression and with a well-reasoned, intelligent response I think you have a good potential  to get the position. My only suggestion beyond what has already been stated is be sure to explain your GPA, and do not make excuses. This can be a fine line, with subtle differences in wording the only difference.

Best of luck to you!
- MechEng2005

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Gymmeh,

I would not worry about the grades.  Let's see wasn't it Thomas Edison and Winston Churchill who were never supposed to amount to anything.  Maybe in the interest of getting another job you are settling on a company you will not be happy with.  If you have an expectation of a certain level of detail you are comfortable with now, you may feel less than professional making decisions based on gut feel at the new place.  The grades do not make a good engineer.  Engineering is like a bridge between the pure sciences or technology and the industrial trades.  A good engineer is able to communicate with the Research Scientist or the Machinist.  As far as grade inflation at many schools goes, it is called cheating!  Some who are breezing through at major universities are not doing it honestly.  I would rather hire an engineer who worked through school or one with good communication skills and integrity rather than a super grade point average.  Best wishes.

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Helicopterjunkie-
Are you insinuating that people with high GPA's cheat?  I take exception to that!
I graduated with a 3.86 overall and 3.92 technical GPA and not only did I not cheat, but I took a test to a professor once when he marked an answer right that I actually had wrong, and it ended up being the difference between an A and an A- (for the semester, not the test).
I put very little effort into anything outside of class, but I paid close attention during class, took good notes, and smoked all of the tests.
Grades are the way we determine who is learning and progressing and who is not.... to make a blanket statement that people with a high GPA cheated is completely inappropriate.  Maybe the people with the low GPA should pay more attention in class instead of laughing and cracking jokes while the rest of us are trying to learn.

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

I re-read Helicopterjunky's post and he did say "some" not "all".

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Somehow I managed to get good grades without cheating.  Sometimes without studying, too.

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Gymmeh -- it is possible that the GPA request has nothing to do with you.  Maybe there is an internal conflict and someone has another preferred candidate, and is looking for ways to hire them over you.

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Some of the worst engineers I have worked with had almost perfect grades at University, conversely some of the best engineers I have ever worked with had quite bad grades at University.

You just need to assure them that you are not a hit and miss type of engineer and that you take your job very seriously.

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

The issue of good grades not automatically meaning good enginers & vice versa has been discussed before in detail.

It tends to get a litte heated so unless the OP wants this thread to go that way I suggest we stop here.

There's already one post above that's so arrogant I'm having trouble not responding. However, I have enough important stuff to stress about tho' so Eng-Tips, no offence, aint worth it.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Grades are of no consequence. If your interviewer could not think of any relevant questions to test your technical abilities and feels he has to resort to checking GPA, I'd be suspicious about it. Either he's looking for a reason NOT to hire you or he doesn't know what makes a quality employee or a  quality engineer.
 

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

(OP)
The topic of good grades = good employees had been beaten on this forum pretty good deadhorse      

I was looking for more of, why, when everything seems reasonable, related work experience, passing an aptitude test, passing one phone interview and two in person interviews, (plus i live a block away smile) could you get a email at the end of all the interviewing saying your GPA is not good? (yes I know this is the worst run on sentence)

ykee, Krautso, KENAT and some other hit on, that fact that its out of my control. who knows what it is, internal politics, my hair is to brown, whatever it may be. ponder Kinda like work all week to get your for old VW running waxed and pretty, just to slaughter Bambi the next day at 65mph with the front of your car...
Its just really frustrating.

I dont know if its a good sign, but i sent the email Saturday and have not heard from them yet... the told me they were going to make a decision Friday.

Thank you all

 

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Gymmeh, good luck.

Generally not hearing is probably a bad sign but at my current place I didn't hear for a few days and it was just because HR didn't get their poop in a group.  The offer came through about a week later than my now manager had anticipated.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

For whatever reason we do not get a job we wanted, most of the time it turns out later to be a blessing.  In addition the word "some" is not the same as "all".  Sorry to have stirred the hornets nest.   

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

I went from A/B's to B/C's after getting into activities. I think they weigh all the consequences of activities and jobs held.

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

I remember one job interview, where two different managers seemed to provide me with different job descriptions.  I got on well with the hiring manager (he wanted a hardware guy), and even reasonable well with the other guy (he wanted a software guy).  In the end, the software guy won out, I didn't get the job, because I didn't have the software background and they went back to looking, but changed the job description.  Point being: who know what's going on inside the company.  You've tried to explain yourself, if they are not interested, it's probably for the best.

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

(OP)
yeah, thats a good point.  I am sure you would be the one getting the shaft when they realize they hired you for the wrong job.

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Take into account "activities?"  I think not.  "Yes, I got Cs, but that's because we won state pennant" will not get you the job, unless the hiring manager happens to be a fan.

TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Maybe "activities" don't mitigate bad grades, but in a lot of cases its a good way to tell the difference between a person who is interesting to work with and can work with other people and someone who can work hard but doesn't work well with others.

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Possibly, but unlikely.  Stating that you were a member of a team tells me nothing other than that.  Were you a slacker, the last-chosen right fielder, the high scorer, the diva, the ultimate team player?  Are you going to include your game stats on your resume?

And to what end?  Where's the proof that being a member of a sports team translates into being a team player at work?

TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Fair enough question, and granted, if a recent grads resume shows only participation in one event, or conversely seems to have spent all their time in non-academic activities I'd be a little wary of either.  I do feel that most engineering benefits from well rounded individuals, maybe R&D type work is an exception.  I've worked with people that lack a social life, and frankly they are hard to work with, regardless of technical competence.

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

(OP)
Both of you have good points.
I would tend to agree with ykee,
I would not say you should use activities as an excuse for bad grades, but consider involvement in activities support for your personality?

IRstuff, To the same extent that working an internship through college does not "really" prove anything unless you talked to the boss. I know some people who brag about their internship being a complete joke, where they surfed the internet and played Fantasy sports. I also know others which just moved stuff around, filed papers, and got people coffee.
Yet wouldn't you assume the person knows a little more about engineering?
The same way some people assume sports may show, ability to play with others, commitment, etc...

If everything was set in stone we wouldnt need this "How to Improve Myself to Get Ahead FAQ"???
 

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Back to the original post, tough out the job for a bit longer if you can. I'd say that anywhere beyond the 2.5-3 year mark of working, GPS is irrelevant. You've gotten a BSME at an accreditied university, and you've made it long enough to not be fired for gross incompetence.  

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

"Yet wouldn't you assume the person knows a little more about engineering?"

Not really.  We've got this amusing question on our website for potential applicants, asking if they're familiar with a particular analysis program.  3 times out of 4, a positive answer results in, "Yes, I watched over someone's shoulder while they ran that program," when asked during the interview.

So, ultimately, if you do put something like that on your resume, you might get queried about it, or you might not, but if you do get queried, you'd better have a decent answer, otherwise, it'll hurt you more than it would help.

TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

i recommend removing your GPA from your resume. it really only needs to be there for your first job out of school. you said you have 1+ year experience now, so don't give them the GPA unless they ask for it specifically. i have found that the quality of your school is much more important than your GPA.

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

(OP)
I have never had in on my resume. They asked me during the first interview.

So an update,

Apparently my persistence paid off cuz I got the job, made a counter offer, accepted the job and turned in my 2 weeks!   

FINALLY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!party party party party party

The best part of the whole thing was talking to the head engineer of my company- which is on the other side of the US- and having him tell me he just turned in his 2 weeks. I told him "can I call you back in 5 minutes," handed in my two weeks, and then called him back and said, yeah I just handed mine in to!
 

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

(OP)
THANK YOU GUYS!!

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Congratulations Gymmeh!

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

congrats

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Congratulation Gymmeh.

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

So, did you get the job you described earlier or is this a different one?

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

(OP)
this is the one i discribed earlier! which put me through the loops for the last 4 weeks.

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Some of the activities that seem to count:
- Honor fraternity;
- Part-time jobs in college offices;
- Student chapters of ASME, etc.

I got a solid reference from faculty in the ME dept. This particular prof also was our fraternity faculty advisor. I entered an ASME paper contest, and that ref went on the resume. So, there are activities, and there are good activities.

Having a good reference has a way of saving your life. One character in an early job at a big company was out to 'kill' me, but the reference confirmation was strong and bullet proof. I kept my job for ten years and gained retirement earnings.

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Congrats Gymeh,

I also have a low GPA that i attribute it to extracurricular activities.Also not all activities are irrelevant to your major, for example FSAE.    

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Congrats, all the best in your new position.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

"I have always hired people who somehow paid their way through college - either by jobs or athletic scholarships."

I will too when I'm eventually promoted to such a position. I've always had absolutely no respect for kids partying off of daddy's dollar. You tend to learn discipline and time management under our circumstances.

You never know how much time you have until you realize how much you waste. I've actually heard classmates complain about not having time to study with no job! I worked full time until my last semester. I very rarely missed time due to finals week; I needed the money too much. My last semester, my now-wife supported me while I took six classes.

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

My GPA was 2.955, and it has made me ineligible for most, if not all, graduate schools since I'm below a 3.0. How long will it be before this no longer matters? How much work experience does it take to completely erase this?

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Kevin,
As an SE going back for my masters, it will never be erased in the eyes of the university.  I have 5 yrs experience, and passed SE1 and SE2 and they still honed in on my GPA.  I think you'd need to have face to face discussions with the professors and maybe an arrangement could be made.  Depends on where you want to go too.

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

(OP)
I was always under the impression that you can take graduate leave classes without being in grad school, to prove that you can get >3.0.

My Uni. will let you take one semester worth of classes. If you get >3.0 on all the classes they will let you in for grad school, Although this may be for Alumni and not everyone.

"Students applying for admission with a quality point average less than 3.0 or without a B.S. in Mechanical or Aerospace Engineering may occasionally be admitted on a provisional basis, depending on the circumstances of their case and their letters of recommendation.  Admission on a provisional basis requires that the student obtain a grade of B or higher in each of the first three graduate courses taken." from my Uni.

http://www.mae.buffalo.edu/academics/graduate/manual/index.shtml
 

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Kevin,
The University of Idaho offers a graduate certificate in structural engineering through engineering outreach.  It is 12 hours, you choose from a limited number of classes which to take.  The minimum GPA to enroll is 2.80.  Once completed, the hours can be applied towards a MS.  You could probably also take those hours and prove to the program of your choice that you can do the work.  Most programs will transfer up to 9 hours from another university.

http://www.outreach.uidaho.edu/eo/ViewPage.aspx?pid=42

Missouri University of Science and Technology (formerly University of Missouri-Rolla) has something similar, as does a Florida university.  I'm sure other universities do as well.

http://dce.mst.edu/credit/certificates/contemporarystructuralengr.html

http://www.graduate.ucf.edu/CurrentGradCatalog/content/degrees/ACAD_PROG_183.cfm

You will probably have to start with something like this, as most universities are going to be a stickler about GPA.  Good luck.

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Gymmeh, you mention playing Rugby, what position?

As an old player myself (not of any quality though) I'd have sympathy for any forward managing 2.4, with constant concussion/hangover for the entire playing season that isn't a bad achievment.

If you were a girly back though, then there's no excusewinky smile.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

I actually went to UCF. It's funny you mentioned that.

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

(OP)
hahaha!!!

Girly!!! i played 9 and 11!  ha no excuse!!! Those b' fightin' words!!!!! winky smile I was plenty sore/hangover on Sundays when I played wing!!  As scrum I tried hard not to break any nails, wrinkle my shorts, or ruin my hair winky smile!

I was always on the B team....IE not the best player, but I did play and not sit the bench!

What position did you play??
 

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

When I was taking it seriously Blind Side Flanker.  I always enjoyed making the Scrum Half thouroughly miserable, hammering him at every line-out and at scrums if I could get away with it.

Sadly I was the 4th best back row player out of a squad with about 6 or 7 people that wanted to play back row.  Our squad was always short of good backs though.  So I'd often get stuck out on a wing, defensively I did fine there, offensively...  That or get loaned to an opposition short a player, this annoyed me so I'd take it out on my team-mates!  Did some bench time too.

Played Prop for intramural team a bit when I got older & fatter at Uni but I'd injured my knee at highschool so combined with not being able to catch a cold let alone a ball my career didn't go far!

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

(OP)
I did well as Scrum half but due to social/political reasons I was moved to wing toward the end of my rugby years.  ( i.e. I started to spend Sun,Mon,Tu,Wed and, some Tr nights studying...)

I was one of the faster/ nimble people so I was good offensively at wing but, I was not even good cannon fodder on defense...
 

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

For the past 8 years I've been working with different type of engineers. Some had 4.0, phd, ms, 2.0, etc. Some of the best engineers that I know had low GPA less than 2.7. I call them good engineers because they can always back up their reasoning and find its root in physics, math, and engineering classes. Not only they understood it well, they can explain them in very simple term. They also have the ability to balance between cost, performance, and speed. They are passionate about what they do and they can communicate very well.  Some of these qualities you gain from work experience, by the way

GPA tend to be the measure of how hard you work and you ability to learn, but it doesn't make you a good engineer. It is good for motivating your kid to study hard at school



 

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

High GPA doesn't make you a good engineer.  Neither does low GPA.  There are some low-GPA people around here whom I would not hire were I in the position to do so.

Hg

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RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

There seems to be a lot of anectdotal evidence that engineers with low(er) GPA's make better engineers and a lot of generalizations about low GPA engineers vs high GPA engineers.
I would just like to offer this up - GPA (and IMO where you went to school) matter very little 8, 10, 15 years after you graduate.  Here is my reasoning:  I don't believe for a second that there is a single engineering program that will prepare you to step into any firm and hit the ground running.  I am not saying that I don't think some people can do that, but I am saying that I don't believe it is a function of the school but more a function of the person.  That being said, as a general rule it is safe to assume that fresh grads can not hit the ground running.  With that premise in mind, I also don't believe there are many (if any) engineers with a PE that couldn't breeze through any undergrad engineering program in the country.  If that is true, the experiece seems to be much more of a player (at least to me).  When you are coming out of school, however, this is obviously something people base their decisions on.

As for the GPA, this is the same thing.  10 years after graduation virtually any PE can go through virtually any engineering program (at least undergrad) and probably breeze through with a 4.0 (or at least pretty close to it).  This leads me to believe that GPA is irrelevant after years of experience, but again, this is one of the things that we are judged by when graduating.

RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

Exactly.  GPA is handy for evaluating a new engineer when there's nothing else to go by.  It's rather inappropriate to ask about GPA when someone has several years and a couple of jobs under their belt.

Hg

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RE: GPA Vs. Experiance

StructuralEIT, I think that's entirely dependant upon the type of experience you get over the 10 yrs of working.  You seem to be at a firm where you actually learn.  I think the vast majority are places where engineers easily rot technically.

With that said, I dont think there's any definite way to go about it, but when I hire I at least want to know GPA to try and see how the person progressed (or recessed) since graduation.

As for a masters, I think it still makes quite a bit of difference even 10 yrs down the road unless that person has had some great mentors.

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