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Can Solidworks Handle Micron Level Features
3

Can Solidworks Handle Micron Level Features

Can Solidworks Handle Micron Level Features

(OP)
Hi,

I am trying to design a part with micron level features on the curved surface of an 8mm diameter cylinder with length of 2cm. I am/was using solidworks 2000 (only version I had). When I started to copy the features across the surface of the cylinder the program started to get bogged down and would cause my computer to crash. Is this a project solidworks can handle and I just need to upgrade my version? Is there another program that I can use to accomplish my project?  

RE: Can Solidworks Handle Micron Level Features

The minimum size SW can handle is 0.1 micron.

The pattern is probably causing the crash. Are you trying to pattern a large number of instances?

What are you system specs?

Do you have the /3GB switch enabled?

cheers

RE: Can Solidworks Handle Micron Level Features

(OP)
Ok so the scale is not a problem. Yes I am trying to pattern a large number of instances.

Just to give you an idea the spacing between features is 2 microns. But the surface that they are being etched into is a cylinder of 8mm diameter by 2cm in length. So the pattern is going to repeat itself a few thousand times.

The specs on my system: OS Windows XP, 1.2GB RAM, 787 MHz, AMD 64 Turion Processor, Solidworks 2000
 

RE: Can Solidworks Handle Micron Level Features

That would drag even the hardiest of systems down to a crawl.

Try maxing out the RAM on your current machine and activate the /3GB switch. But unless you can move up to a x64 system with oodles of RAM you are probably SOL.

cheers

RE: Can Solidworks Handle Micron Level Features

Can you use a texture instead?

cheers

RE: Can Solidworks Handle Micron Level Features

back2work,

  The pattern limit is 1000 instances, so to get more than 1000 you will need to pattern the pattern.

  I did this on my rig, Windows XP 64-bit with 4 GB of RAM @ 3 Ghz, and it took about 5 min to create 5000 instances.

  Hope this helps you with your issue, CBL may have the best soloution.

 

John H. Dunten, CD
Certified Drafter

RE: Can Solidworks Handle Micron Level Features

Quote (Monty Python):

"It's only a model!"

If you need to generate a solid for manufacturing, that's one thing.  If all you need is to simulate a texture, or those features do not actually contribute to the mechanical function, that's a waste of your computer's resources.

In this case, feature size is likely not the problem.  The high surface count resulting from such a large pattern will bog down SW no matter what the scale.

RE: Can Solidworks Handle Micron Level Features

(OP)

Quote:

New PostTheTick (Mechanical)      
13 May 08 10:03

    Quote (Monty Python):
    "It's only a model!"


If you need to generate a solid for manufacturing, that's one thing.  If all you need is to simulate a texture, or those features do not actually contribute to the mechanical function, that's a waste of your computer's resources.

In this case, feature size is likely not the problem.  The high surface count resulting from such a large pattern will bog down SW no matter what the scale.



It is actually going to be used for manufacturing that's why it is critical that the surface be created a certain way. So is this project impossible in Solidworks?

RE: Can Solidworks Handle Micron Level Features

I used to design parts in microns. You don't have the computing power to model texture and large patterns. the patterns alone will lock up your pc. I don't know what your parts look like, but if possible create as many parts as you can with the pattern, then create assy's. Leave out the textures and design the parts with texture in mind.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 06/08
ctopher's home (updated Apr 30, 2008)

RE: Can Solidworks Handle Micron Level Features

(OP)

Quote:

That would drag even the hardiest of systems down to a crawl.

Try maxing out the RAM on your current machine and activate the /3GB switch. But unless you can move up to a x64 system with oodles of RAM you are probably SOL.

That's what I figured.

Quote:

Can you use a texture instead?

Is there a texture feature in SolidWorks? Unless the texture can be edited to meet the specs a general texture wouldn't work. The surface features are the main focus of this project.

RE: Can Solidworks Handle Micron Level Features

If your model is symmetric, try the following:

1.  Create a model with your cuts that is some fraction of the overall length of your cylinder.  For instance, do a .5cm length with the required number of micron features.

2.  Save that part as a "dumb solid" (.iges, .step, etc).

3.  Create a new part with the dumb solid and do a body pattern to get your required overall length.  You can merge the bodies if necessary.

Does that speed things up a bit?

Dan

www.eltronresearch.com

RE: Can Solidworks Handle Micron Level Features

I assume that along with an old version of SW you have an older and likely underpowered computer.  Perhaps updates to one or both would help.

Perhaps you could outsource some of the work.  You have enough information to generate the pattern.  Send the partially-finished part to someone (i.e. design firm w/ SW) with instructions to complete the pattern.  Have them deliver finished SW model plus a parasolid and IGES of the finished model.

Alternatively, you could send a partial model to the etcher have the etcher complete the pattern with whatever software they use.

RE: Can Solidworks Handle Micron Level Features

Can you pattern the pattern as DraftingMan mentioned above?  If it's able to be patterned (even rhythm of occurrence), SolidWorks can probably do it just fine.  Think of how you can accomplish this with the lease amount of "work" on your computer's part.  Perhaps you can create smaller and fewer patters and then create a circular (or linear) pattern of your pattern.

In cases like these where things get complicated with so many small faces I'll sometimes export the final part after the patterns have been applied.  Parasolid, and then back into SolidWorks as a regular "dumb" solid if I'm using the part in assemblies where I don't want to wait five minutes every time I update a part.

Your system specs seem "quite slow", but for running SW 2000, the specs are only "slow".  I made a razor microscreen as a sheetmetal part that was perforated with loads of holes and then bent back into shape as a part way back in 1997.  I think the computer crunched on the part bend after the perforation for about two hours--but it did complete the operation perfectly.  (That was a dual-chip at 300MHz each with a whopping 512MB of RAM--an amazing machine back then.)

Check out the info regarding enabling the /3GB switch--it helps even if you don't have 3GB of RAM.

 

Jeff Mowry
www.industrialdesignhaus.com
What did you dream?  It's all right--we told you what to dream.
    --Pink Floyd, Welcome to the Machine

RE: Can Solidworks Handle Micron Level Features

(OP)
John,

It took 5 minutes for 5000 instances with your rig?! Oh man, I'm screwed.

RE: Can Solidworks Handle Micron Level Features

Quote:

So is this project impossible in Solidworks?
No it is not impossible for SW, but it is probably impossible for SW to do it on your computer. You will need a more powerful computer, and as DraftingMan pointed out, you may have to make a pattern of a pattern.

cheers

RE: Can Solidworks Handle Micron Level Features

well I'll play the ignoramus...  All apologies if I am way off base.

If you are creating a part to be etched then the tooling is a photographic negative.  As such the part's design and specifications should be done in an artwork package, i.e. Adobe Illustrator, CorelDraw, and file provided or output to service bureau that can image micron size feature masks.  Alternately, I have created 2D drawing at tremendous scale for mask maker to interpret using their applications.

To create a 3D solid model of such detail is excessive and unneeded, unless required for some analysis or other calculation.

RE: Can Solidworks Handle Micron Level Features

I agree. Some medical designs I worked on did require analysis and was a PITA! But, to have a prametric design with dwgs the part will be needed.
I suggest upgrading the PC's to handle them.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 06/08
ctopher's home (updated Apr 30, 2008)

RE: Can Solidworks Handle Micron Level Features


DraftingMan,

Where are the pattern limits documented?

Thanks.

Trevor Clarke. (R & D) Scientific Instruments.Somerset. UK

SW2007x64 SP3.0 Pentium P4 3.6Ghz, 4Gb Ram ATI FireGL V7100 Driver: 8.323.0.0
SW2007x32 SP4.0 Pentium P4 3.6Ghz, 2Gb Ram NVIDIA Quadro FX 500 Driver: 6.14.10.7756
 

RE: Can Solidworks Handle Micron Level Features

SincoTC,
None (or very few) limits of anything are documented. Most are just discovered when attempting to exceed them.

cheers

RE: Can Solidworks Handle Micron Level Features


CBL,

Thanks for the prompt response, I was just curious because I've been working on a couple of linear patterns today, one with 6,144 instances (37 secs rebuild) and another 24,576 instances (nearly 8 minutes), both from a single seed feature (a simple truncated cone 0.49mm diameter x 0.4mm high spaced at 0.5625mm) and once rebuilt, surprisingly easy to rotate and zoom.

I guess that back2work's project is in a different ballpark, with such small features and spacing, and on a curved surface to boot!

I agree with you, he's going to need some serious computing horsepower.

Trevor Clarke. (R & D) Scientific Instruments.Somerset. UK

SW2007x64 SP3.0 Pentium P4 3.6Ghz, 4Gb Ram ATI FireGL V7100 Driver: 8.323.0.0
SW2007x32 SP4.0 Pentium P4 3.6Ghz, 2Gb Ram NVIDIA Quadro FX 500 Driver: 6.14.10.7756
 

RE: Can Solidworks Handle Micron Level Features

(OP)
Thanks guys for all your help. It seems that the general consensus is that Solidworks may handle something like this on a more powerful machine. As for now, on my computer, it's not going to happen.  

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