Global vs detail oriented brain
Global vs detail oriented brain
(OP)
We all know the anecdotes about micro managers and other detail minded people. My boss is detail minded, actually several colleagues are detail minded and I have the impression that it's the company culture, or let's say it has worsened because it hadn't struck me when I joined a couple years ago. I am global myself and I usually think of "translating" messages to detail minded people, i.e.: throw in a dozen small, not necessarily relevant items so the message does not fit on one page and their interest is immediately tickled. 
The other day I forgot to do so though. After I sent out a (short!) list of actions resulting from a meeting, my boss replied to all: did you discuss X, Y and Z? I responsed: yes, yes and no, with the idea in the back of my mind that I would bump into him later that day to discuss further. My detail minded co-worker apparently saw an open goal and sent a much more detailed reply to all. My boss replied to all thanking the other guy for his useful response and publicly told me off for having sent a reply "of no interest". Which of course is TRUE... for a DETAIL minded person!
But after that the issue started to haunt me. This is not the first "detail minded company" I work in. The anecdotes about micro managers are so generic it almost seems as though you have to be detail minded to get anywhere higher up the food chain, as contradictory as this may seem. Detail minded often gets confused with "driven", "dedicated", "rigorous"... or is it really the same thing!? I get sooo booored with details, I prefer to work with global people, I actually think many global people have a sense of humor while many detailed people don't (sorry it's not a pleasant thing to say), but are global people really fit for corporate life if they get bored so quickly? Is a global brain simply a lazy brain?? (You can see the existential crisis I'm in today...)
The other day I forgot to do so though. After I sent out a (short!) list of actions resulting from a meeting, my boss replied to all: did you discuss X, Y and Z? I responsed: yes, yes and no, with the idea in the back of my mind that I would bump into him later that day to discuss further. My detail minded co-worker apparently saw an open goal and sent a much more detailed reply to all. My boss replied to all thanking the other guy for his useful response and publicly told me off for having sent a reply "of no interest". Which of course is TRUE... for a DETAIL minded person!
But after that the issue started to haunt me. This is not the first "detail minded company" I work in. The anecdotes about micro managers are so generic it almost seems as though you have to be detail minded to get anywhere higher up the food chain, as contradictory as this may seem. Detail minded often gets confused with "driven", "dedicated", "rigorous"... or is it really the same thing!? I get sooo booored with details, I prefer to work with global people, I actually think many global people have a sense of humor while many detailed people don't (sorry it's not a pleasant thing to say), but are global people really fit for corporate life if they get bored so quickly? Is a global brain simply a lazy brain?? (You can see the existential crisis I'm in today...)





RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
I've actually become worried that I'm turning into a control freak micromanager, I guess detail oriented in your parlence. I also think I may be on the autistic scale or something somewhere as occasionally I get hung up on something and just can't let go, not matter what, even if I realize I'm doing it.
My manager is certainly the global kind, don't trouble him with details for the most part.
By the way, though not as sharp as it was I like to think I have at least a bit of a sense of humo(u)r left.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
In my particular discipline, the big picture people have all the top jobs and they delegate the details to the lower people. From my point of view, it appears to get ahead, you need a few detail oriented people around you to fix things so you can spend your time looking good and promoting yourself. Maybe that is too harsh though.
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
Your boss asked: "Did you discuss X, Y and Z?"
You answered the question asked.
What your boss really wanted to know however was: "What was the outcome of the discussions of X, Y and Z?"
Certainly, had he asked the proper question, you would have given a full answer.
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
I don't think global= lazy. Some people see/comprehend the big picture faster than others, they don't need to be inundated with the details up front. People exist that do need those details, it can frustrate others. There is room for both mindsets in "corporate life", they just need to be in the proper positions.
"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."
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RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
Conversely, the boss should know that if he asks epoisses "Did you discuss X?" the answer will be yes or no.
I have - for the most part - successfully trained the people who manage the projects that I work on to ask the question that they want answered.
When they forget, I will prompt them. For example, my response would have been "Yes, we spoke about X and Y, but not Z. Do you need to know the discussion details, or just the outcome?"
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
I had a boss who would invariably read any emails, memos, reports etc. and laboriously correct spelling and grammar mistakes and then hand them back to the author(s).
He would write incredibly small margin notes you needed a magnifying glass to read.
Sadly, he never actually seemed to actually read or understand what was said. Pretty soon any emails, memos or reports sent to him were found to be of greater and greater verbosity. This seemed to give him plenty to occupy his days (and plenty of satisfaction) and we could get on with some real work.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
For your boss to thank a co-worker for additional details is natural.
For your boss to publically (reply to all) criticize your email is ridiculous on 2 levels
1 - you didn't do anything wrong... answered the questions and made judgements about the level of detail required.
2 - even if you did do something wrong, or your boss wanted to provide you guidance on the way he wants things done in the future, it is not appropriate to communicate that in a reply to all type message. I can't say I have ever seen any supervisor criticize the efforts of his subordinates in an email... that is something best done verbally, or if time/convenience demands an email then it should be to one person only.
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RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
Epoisses,
I would think that you task of preparing a list of actions resulting from a meeting would require an accurate representation of points discussed and agreed. The fact that your boss identified missing topics suggests that you were caught out and he had to effectively complete your work. This has nothing to do with "global" or "detail-minded" people. Certain tasks call for attention to detail, while fewer still (and usually at a higher level) allow a global approach.
Our profession, generally requires that attention to detail and if you cannot be bothered to apply it, someone else (like a checker) has to finish your work.
On the example you used, the preparation of a list or minutes of a meeting should not require such a follow-up to get it correct, and you should be worried that this - what we call in Australia "no worries, she'll be right" - attitude will lead your boss to lack confidence in your ability to finish a job.
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
That aside; in my limited experience, global minded people are better off for some higher level positions because they aren't blinded by the details as many are (myself included).
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."
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RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
Additionally, detailed design is constrained by conflicts in requirements, i.e., performance vs. power consumption; elegance vs. strength to withstand earthquakes. It's the big picture guys that determine which one gets sway and where to draw the line.
In a well functioning engineering organization, you need to have both types.
TTFN
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RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
I'm reminded of an old Brady Bunch episode...If I ask you if you have a watch; is the proper response yes or no? I don't think so. A reasonable person would expect an answer of "No sorry." or "Yes, It's 3:34".
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
I am detailed orientated and had to "learn" to think more globally. Before, I could have designed a large machine and welded guarding all around. Took me a bit, but I've finally figured out that, hey, maybe their should be maintenance access. And removable hatches at areas that may need more frequent adjustment.
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
I agree with comments on the importance of details -- BUT I also think that some detail oriented people get caught up in knowing all the details all the time, even when these details are of no use to them or the work they do. Not just in the micromanagment sense, but also in the how many significant digits should you have in the solution sense.
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
BillBirch, yes I would love to have a checker here - am used to having my wife play the checker role at home...
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
I think IRstuff and others who talk about both being needed and balancing the requirements of both.
The difficult thing is when you need to be doing both yourself, making sure you don't get so over whelmed by details that you miss the global.
As to playing games with managers, deliberately setting them up for something, it's hard not to sometimes, though not perhaps a good career move.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
Someone mentioned boss-training above. I don't know how much more explicit I can get than, "If I just wanted to know whether or not it was being taken care of, I would have asked whether it was being taken care of. That's not what I asked."
Hg
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RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
Where do we sign our bosses up for boss training?
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
Since you already know what the resultant behavior will be, persistenting in persuing that avenue smacks of masochism at the very least, or, a desire for confrontations.
TTFN
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RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
Some people just like to hoard information. Every once in a while I manage to point to an example of something that went wrong because of this, and the situation improves for a while, but it doesn't take long for the pattern to set back in.
Hg
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RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
There's not necessarily much you can do with a manager's entrenched mind, but your expectations and behaviors ought to accommodate those responses. Particularly if it's frustrating you; so why do YOU still do that?
TTFN
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RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
I'm at a loss, though, for figuring out a *way* to ask questions, in general, to get me a better result. As I said, following each question with "and I really did mean that I wanted a full answer to that" just doesn't seem like a good idea.
Hg
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RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
What you didn't say was whether you ever get the answers you're looking for. If yes, then ther's hope, possibly starting out with "I need a detailed breakdown about what's happening with XY." Or perhaps, he's just pulling your chain, because he can, and because you react.
TTFN
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RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
Other than confidential human resources issues that I can't legally be told about, though, I need to know pretty much everything that goes on. I'm his backup if he's not here, and there have been many occasions where I needed information and didn't have it.
It's not just me. I had another manager from another section ask me why my manager had given a non-answer to something.
I think "I need a detailed breakdown" is a good start. I'll try something like that next time.
Hg
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RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
Actually the book "Don't shoot the dog" by Karen Pryor is not a dog training book at all, but a book on how to train humans...
Worth a read in some cases, just don't tell your boss you're training them.
SLH
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
Detail oriented minds are more suitable for technical environments, where people skills are less needed. Machines and devices won't talk, so a scanner-like mind will find out the small points of failure where a global-mind won't.
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
You can be the smartest person in the world on a particular subject, but if you can't explain things so that others can understand, how would they even know that you're smart?
I would also dispute the implication that smart people can't be global.
Not seeing the forest for the trees is often a problem. Local optimizations do not necessarily lead to global optimizations. That's why global views are necessarily in the design process, not just in the management.
TTFN
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RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
TTFN
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RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
We must accept the fact that in many (not all) companies, Sales/Marketing means profit, while Engineering means cost. Sales guys know for sure their people skills are making money, 'lifting' the company, while we the Engineers are fighting an everyday battle to lower our costs, trying to weight less for the Management shoulders. A lack of ability to get a 'big picture' and transmit it to others only makes things worse.
I guess our stereotyped, detail-oriented Engineer should learn how to jump the fence, think for one minute how a joke or a laugh at lunch time may stretch the project budget more easily than a whole-day datasheet search, or just playing with this: How would I like to see my desk job shown in Discovery Channel: Interesting?, A key factor in our business?, Yawning 'tech stuff'?
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
They're both important, because having only a roomful of nuts and bolts guys will not ensure that you're going to have a useful and effective system at the end of the day.
And, when the customer wants to know how our system is going to work within his system, guess what, he's going to ask the global minded person, and not the nuts and bolts guy.
TTFN
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RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
I dont' think one is better or smarter than the other.
I will say that perhaps the global will more likely make their way in management so perhaps make more though there are technical 'experts' that make a nice living too.
My last place got rid of the sales & marketing people and Engineering Project Management took over most of those duties. In this situation it worked a lot better, I'm not saying that's always going to be the case though. The Engineering project people were arguably more global, they could look at the commercial aspects and the engineering aspects and bid accordingly. The sales/marketing types didn't seem to get the engineering aspects and caused problems because of it.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
As in IRstuff's example, a manager who insists that I design the best brakes in the world, while I struggle to see how I will finish the total car design before the deadline, just gets on my nerves. Being a global person in a very detail minded organisation (my previous employer was a great example) means you drag along a multiple pages to do list, as soon as you think you can check a box you are asked to go over it once again... it's a major stress factor.
But then again the detail minded in a global organisation must have their dose of stress as well, all those unmanaged details! must be unbearable
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
I enjoy detail work. I enjoy optimising defined systems. But I know that system integration inside poorly defined constraints is a more dangerous, more valuable, and less common, strength.
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
It is correct to say that it's "bad business practice" to hoard and not share info. However it's also bad practice to receive praise for work that isn't yours.
An example of what I mean is a recent request at our place to write powerpoint report summaries that present all the key data in a very simple visual form. I can't stand this because it gives people who don't really know what they're doing an easy route to appearing like they know stuff.
I write concise reports, sure, but not as concise as certain people need to be able to repeat the work.
The problem here is that in modern businesses people are seen as a disposable asset and information hoarding is to some extent the response to this. I accept that this is quite confrontational and not always necessary, but the interests of the business aren't the only issue here.
Ben
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
You need to adapt to both changes in requirements and level of detail.
TTFN
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RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
I think global thinking doesn't mean sending technicians to Management courses, but having deep understanding of which resources we have to solve a problem. Not all engineering tools, technically speaking, but our people networks (I make deep use of it, though).
More than once, Eng-Tips helped me much more than a manufacturer's Tech assistance page. More than once, a brief talk helps more than thinking alone. If you agree on that, you are global-minded and you're one step ahead of your colleagues.
That's all (I'm feeling like a preacher)
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
A few things to note:
This type of thing happens all the time the idea is to learn from it and move on. I have had to learn to work with 6 sets of management so far each with their own peculiarities. The important thing to realise is that it is you that has to change your behaviour as they are the ones in charge, and also probably more experienced and set in their ways. Not fair, possibly, but it is just one of the things in life that is not fair.
Secondly you need to understand how engineering works. You start of being employed as a details person to sort out all the details that the upper management do not have time for. It is only when you are of a sufficient level that you can delegate these details to someone else and concentrate on the global picture.
So, learn from this, and take pride in your work. Try and take care of the details then one day you will be in a position that you can use that ability to think more globally.
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
There is a point, perhaps not mentioned above, that always make an engineer with (also) a global or helicopter view useful:
'Is the main startpoint for your detailled engineering correct?'
In our not perfect world the answer is often 'no'.
(The construction was beautiful and correct constructed but should have been built on a complete different set of presumptions, or perhaps not been made at all.)
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
Good point, but this only really comes with experience.
How can you understand a whole forest if you dont really understand how a tree works?
Life is all about staged learning. When you do an advanced driving course they tell you to watch four cars in front of you. Why dont they teach you this when you first start driving? Because you would crash into the car in front of you! It is only when you automatically are aware of what is happening straight in front of you that you can then safely look further ahead of you.
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain
RE: Global vs detail oriented brain