F1 going hybrid
F1 going hybrid
(OP)
ht tp://gas2. org/2008/0 4/22/formu la-1-racin g-to-go-hy brid-from- 2009-2013/
i thought this was interesting. Who doesn't like higher performance of a system =)
What would be wasted energy from a flywheel? I can only think of when the clutch is disengaged the flywheel slows down, but I believe F1 cars have automatic paddle shifting, and there wouldn't be any clutch in situations during a race. De acceleration while in gear perhaps?
i thought this was interesting. Who doesn't like higher performance of a system =)
Quote:
The biggest difference between KERS and a regular battery-electric hybrid is that KERS stores recovered waste energy in a rotating flywheel
What would be wasted energy from a flywheel? I can only think of when the clutch is disengaged the flywheel slows down, but I believe F1 cars have automatic paddle shifting, and there wouldn't be any clutch in situations during a race. De acceleration while in gear perhaps?





RE: F1 going hybrid
Another fantastic innovation brought to you by Formula 1.
If you ignore the 1950s Swiss gyrobus
Cheers
Greg Locock
SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: F1 going hybrid
I wonder what would be considered wasted energy. I've never looked into hybrid cars.
RE: F1 going hybrid
RE: F1 going hybrid
Nevertheless, since approx. 40% of the energy is lost during braking (F1 scenario), there's definitely a benefit of a hybrid drive train (be it flywheels or ultracaps).
More efficient = less time needed to tank = faster.
Since the 80's recuperation of braking energy is prohibited in F1, so they will need to change the rules.
I guess they could also limit the fuel amount available per race (like they did in the turbo days) and allow teams to do more or less whatever they please. But then again, this might give one lucky team with the best system a significant advantage and produce boring races.
RE: F1 going hybrid
RE: F1 going hybrid
- Steve
RE: F1 going hybrid
RE: F1 going hybrid
Interested?
Cheers
Greg Locock
SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: F1 going hybrid
(sorry, couldn't resist just one more pun)
RE: F1 going hybrid
> ... Max Mosely of F1 has announced that all cars will
> become hybrid by 2013, ...
KERS is planned for 2009 onwards. Although not compulsory, if you choose not to have it you will be at a disadvantage. Since we are talking about racing that effectively means the cars should all be hybrids in 2009.
> KERS doesn't store as much energy as a traditional
> hybrid system, but it only weighs 55 pounds and the
> limited energy storage capacity is well suited
> for Formula-style racing.
The weight of a KERS is not regulated and so should vary from team to team.
It is not well suited to formula one racing. Weight is transferred to the front on braking and initially KERS will act on the rear only. The rear already has about 800 HP and until the engine runs out of power, ie cannot spin the wheels, a rear wheel KERS is effectively useless.
> The biggest difference between KERS and a regular
> battery-electric hybrid is that KERS stores recovered
> waste energy in a rotating flywheel.
Teams are free to choose the technology they want. For example it would be surprising if Toyota went for anything other than an electric motor KERS and not a flywheel.
The guy writing the article seems to have heard about one prospective KERS unit that is in development and not only assumed that it will reach the starting grid, but that all the cars will have it.
RE: F1 going hybrid
You need to keep in mind that the total braking power at 300 km/h with a decelaration of 4g can easily be over 2000 HP.
Even if only 30% of that braking power is taken care of by the rear wheels, this can still be more power than the engine itself can deliver during acceleration.
During acceleration at higher speeds, the rear wheels can easily take more power (higher gear = less torque plus more downforce).
Besides: Every single HP and every pound of fuel saving (weight saving) makes the car faster.
RE: F1 going hybrid
- Steve
RE: F1 going hybrid
Even if only 30% of that braking power is taken care of by the rear wheels, this can still be more power than the engine itself can deliver during acceleration."
Don't forget the FIA have capped the maximum power in and out of the KERS at 60kW. The torque produced by the rear brakes is proportional to downforce, and therefore is proportional to speed squared. However the 60kW limit means KERS input torque is capped _inversely_ proportional to speed.
Without a means of varying the hydraulic brake bias through the braking zone (which is outlawed) a KERS equipped car will waste some of it's braking potential, rendering it less competitive than it could have been.
Regards, Ian
RE: F1 going hybrid
Since it would cost too much to redesign and rebuild all the roads to avoid intersections entirely, regenerative braking is the next best thing, and I hope F1 gains the consequential crossover value that it has so thoroughly lost recently.
If I was in a race team, I'd design the flywheel so it would resist the overturning moment of the weight transfer. Imagine the consequences in circle-track racing; a low CG would no longer be essential.
RE: F1 going hybrid
Make KERS only operational above 120 km/h - problem solved.
Without a means of varying the hydraulic brake bias through the braking zone (which is outlawed) a KERS equipped car will waste some of it's braking potential, rendering it less competitive than it could have been.
The rear brakes will probably need to be fitted with ABS, to prevent KERS from interfering with the braking system. I don't see why they couldn't adapt the rules accordingly.
RE: F1 going hybrid
RE: F1 going hybrid
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_109202/article.html
This would mean 1 kg of flywheel is enough to store 60 kW for almost 5 seconds. Or 4 kg of flywheel is sufficient for almost 20 seconds at 60 kW.