Can one engine be inherently more powerful than another?
Can one engine be inherently more powerful than another?
(OP)
The topic says it all. This question sparked from a debate on whether or not the 300cid Ford inline six is a good engine or a useless engine, but I figured you'd all have your ideas as well.
-=Whittey=-
-=Whittey=-





RE: Can one engine be inherently more powerful than another?
My opinion is that as long as an engine is operated within its design envelope with few problems and is fullfilling operational requirements, it is NOT useless. It may not be the most daring concept as engine designs go but it is doing its designed job. What more can you ask of a so called 'useless' engine?
Rod
RE: Can one engine be inherently more powerful than another?
-=Whittey=-
RE: Can one engine be inherently more powerful than another?
RE: Can one engine be inherently more powerful than another?
RE: Can one engine be inherently more powerful than another?
RE: Can one engine be inherently more powerful than another?
Cheers
Greg Locock
RE: Can one engine be inherently more powerful than another?
Bore/stroke ratio. A small bore long stroke engine has a smaller combution chamber area, so less heat loss and more torque/power at low speeds. The opposite big bore short stroke , lower piston speed, room for big valves, so, inherently more potential power because of the higher revs possible. Right?
BTW, I have a Ford van to re-engine. I'm told that the 302 will be a better choice than the original 300. There seems to be more 302's around, so that advice is getting some play. dunno.
RE: Can one engine be inherently more powerful than another?
The real problem with I6s is that the crank gets long very quickly as displacement increases, so larger engines tend to have disproportionately lower redlines. You can see this on BMWs, their 2 and 2.5 litre units are sweet, their 3.5 litre is just OK.
Cheers
Greg Locock
RE: Can one engine be inherently more powerful than another?
I didn't think the thread was about servicing. So, "gettin the mains right" would not be something inherent. A 90 deg V engine can have lower friction than an inline, inherently. So, more output.
Having to deal with an INHERENTLY longer crank on a inline, maybe using larger journals and a large damper, is an additional deficit. This is more in the realm of original design, I think, not mods or service. But both are worthy subjects.
Flat engines also have high dynamic loads on the mains. The center main on a flat four really gets it bad. No frictional advantage there.
The practical aspects of whether a Ford 300 or 302 , pros and cons is very interesting to me all by itself, though.
RE: Can one engine be inherently more powerful than another?
Here was my point:
Almost any motor can rev if built to handle it. If you can find a factory forged crank, forged pistons and the stock rods (forged since '65) you can build a pretty darn bulletproof bottom end. But what can the valves handle? Can the valvetrain on a 302 handle more rpms than on a 300?
http://www.inliners.org/race/race11.html
Just a link to a guy who does pretty well with the 300's in drag racing. 9.73@135mph isn't bad for a N/A tractor motor.
-=Whittey=-
RE: Can one engine be inherently more powerful than another?
Blacksmith
RE: Can one engine be inherently more powerful than another?
The stock motor was a horrible setup. Log intake, log exhaust, 230cfm 1bbl. It draws 8" of vacuum at 1500rpm WOT. Tiny valves, smaller ports. And it still performed within 95% of the 302 yet at much lower rpm's. I would have loved to see what the 300 could do with a 4bbl and cast headers from the factory.
-=Whittey=-
RE: Can one engine be inherently more powerful than another?
My point is (I am getting to it) that some engines by design or by good fortune have been great for modifications toward power increases while other have not. However, most all the engines in use today fullfill their design requirements even though the designs are INHERENTLY different(better/worse?). There is good and bad in people, not things and certainly not engines. Just some better than others.(My Model A Ford engine is a great little four banger, but it redlines at 3000rpm!!!)
Rod
RE: Can one engine be inherently more powerful than another?
RE: Can one engine be inherently more powerful than another?
Why is that? In this instance we're comparing a 302 versus a 300, but lets say there was a 300cid V6 out there. Would the inline produce more torque?
Why can't the 300 be used for high rpms? Building it with the factory forged items you'll be limited by the valvetrain same as the 302 would.
Clifford Performance isn't a very good company. There are alot of people that are unhappy with the fitment of their products, they are expensive, and their customer service is bad. Anything you can get from cliffords you can get from elsewhere cheaper. Schneider makes cams up to 320M, Offenhauser makes intakes (and i'm bidding on a Holman Moody intake on Ebay right now) everyone makes headers, bumped compression, SBC valves are a simple swap, its got a 4" bore so you can put hundreds if different pistons in there... It really isn't that expensive to build one of these unless you get it from a specialty place like Clifford. Dual quad intakes, tripple 2bbl intakes, tripple 1bbl intakes, all can be had.
-=Whittey=-
RE: Can one engine be inherently more powerful than another?
the reson the inline motors make more torque has to do with the pistons all being lined up instead of at offset angles.
the reson that the 302 can spin beter is that it has a shorter stroke meaning the piston is not traveling as fast so there is less force lost to the piston having to stop and change direction.
RE: Can one engine be inherently more powerful than another?
http://www.allpar.com/racing/slant-six.html
-=Whittey=-
RE: Can one engine be inherently more powerful than another?
Care to go into more detail? I'm still wondering what you're getting at.
RE: Can one engine be inherently more powerful than another?
-=Whittey=-
RE: Can one engine be inherently more powerful than another?