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The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
8

The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

(OP)
Anybody deal with this one...

You're the head guy on a project.  Maybe the only guy.  You're busting your butt getting drawings done, stuff spec'd out, parts ordered, in on time, fabricated, basically everything that the machine is well...it "is" becauuse you exist and for no other reason.  You get the thing up and running.  Beta site customer shows up to take a look at it, he loves it.  Oh wait...what's this, is it a bird...a plane, a ufo?  No, it's the proverbial guy who shows up after all the real work is done to steal the show.  He's not necessarily a sales/marketing guy.  he might just be someone that's been there a long time.  Firneds with the owner.  Whatever.  He might not even be an engineer.  But now it's beta site time, the fun stuff (more fun that drawings all day long anyway).  Now show stealer is well, seemingly running the show.  He's sending out status emails, reporting to the owner.  You get mad, really mad.  So mad you don't want to be there anymore.  But...what do you do?

Anyone experience this type of thing?

(In the interest of not being sexist, one may replace the word "guy" with "gal" in this post if he/she choses)
     

-Plasmech

Mechanical Engineer, Plastics Industry

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

I have the t-shirt.

If you don't want to be there, don't be there.  Take a vacation.  You can't be productive until your attitude recovers.

There is some risk; the scene- stealer may have your job when you return.  

So, you might want to make it a 'working' vacation, as in working a while for someone else to see if a different snakepit is more to your liking.

My experience has been that snakepits are all pretty much the same, and are all full of snakes.





  

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

What is 'The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project' (TPGWSTSATEOTP) ... (lets's call him PG), what is his official position in the company. Is he just a colleague, supervisor, upper level manager? His position does make a difference.

Does PG have a working knowledge of what makes the machine do what it does and why? If not the lack of detailed knowledge can easily be shown up at the most opportune of times ... but might have consequences.

Where is PG getting his info from? What is to stop you from pre-empting his reports with your own more detailed versions?

cheers

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

2
You can learn one thing from this, don't do the same thing.  I try to be very careful to give credit where credit is due.   

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

I didn't know it worked any other way...  

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

(OP)
The T-Shirt?  Not sure I understand your reply 100% Mike...

-Plasmech

Mechanical Engineer, Plastics Industry

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

Reference to "Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt".

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

Before you run off for a month in the sun, ask yourself "do you want his job?" and "can he do your job?".  If the answer to both is "HELL NO" then what is the problem.  People that can handle the details should.  People that excel in the politics are much better off there than in front of a CAD station.  Not getting credit hurts, but not nearly as much as not getting the kind of jobs you love doing.

David

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
www.muleshoe-eng.com
Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

The harder I work, the luckier I seem
 

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

(OP)
Sorry if I am dense or something but I do not "get" the references to the vacations...can someone please explain?  Thanks.

-Plasmech

Mechanical Engineer, Plastics Industry

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

It's in Mikes post.  

Basically take a break away from it and then come back with a clear head.  May just be the 'count to 10' but on a larger scale.
 

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

When I worked at a Power Station we had a similar thing...at the end of the shutdown all the people who had nothing to do with the work suddenly appeared and took the glory and went to the free food events...we called it the "Medals for the non-participants" scenario

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

(OP)
In my opinion it really is beyond just annoying.  It's infuriating, and it can bring out he worst in people.  But, as was stated above, one can always find another snake pit to work in.
 

-Plasmech

Mechanical Engineer, Plastics Industry

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

I once went to a ribbon cutting for a bridge I worked on.  It was major engineering accomplishment, and we were all very proud of our work.  We asked a newspaper photographer if he wanted to take a photo of the design team.  Answer:  Go as that guy over there...
 

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

Where do we get the "T" shirts?....

Yes, having been given a task and done it well I put together a report which I circulated for comment before submission to he who pays the salary. Before that happened we had a meeting with the boss and this brown-noser started in with a verbal report based on my written report but as if it was his own.

What did I do?
Nothing but learn from it. Like they say, experience is a good teacher but sends big bills.
What were my options?
Most of them would make me look like a jerk and the rest would get me jailed.

By the way, the holiday option has a practical side to it.
While you're away he has to run the  show on his own. So ok,  if he is the brown-nose type, any mistakes will be latent defects caused by you, so who said life was fair?

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

If you are the "head guy" on the project (the project manager) than you are truly in charge of it.  You should have the authority to staff the project the way you want to.  You get the glory if it goes well and take the beating if it doesn't.  You decide who will do the marketing, beta testing, whatever.  If you are not truly in control of the entire show, it sounds like you aren't really the head guy...  That being said, you should still get kudos from your boss for the task that you completed and did a good job with.  If you are not being appreciated for the good work you do, you should be asking why.

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

(OP)
ummm...what?  I have trouble understanding some of these replies.  I must be stupid!
 

-Plasmech

Mechanical Engineer, Plastics Industry

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

Plasmech:

You are not stupid, perhaps you are not in the USA?

What they are trying to tell you is this:

1.)It happens in every company.
2.)It infuriates each of us it happens to.
3.)It generally is best to cool off before killing the SOB.
4.)It is the reason that I work alone....... because I have never believed in #3 above.

Only you can determine if you can follow steps 1-3 above.

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

A star for your first post, Kenat.  Usually I let my lead technician do the honors of starting up the machine, or test, or whatever...while I stand well back (out of range of any bits that may come off at high speed :).

No, really, I try and let the tech's. have the moment.  It shuts up the PG, and reminds everyone that the credit can be spread around quite a bit.  It's best to hide the start button, too, or "forget" to reset the kill/e-stop switch, in case the PG tries to steal the moment.

If it was a bridge opening...I'd be sitting in a piece of mobile equipment on the un-open side of the ribbon, with a few of my hand-picked crew...and fire up the motor and drive across as "firsties" while the speechifiers were still blah-blahing...then off to the pub.

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

We had a really big job for one of the major race car companies in the US, which I did almost all the work for. I was asked last month by the head of installation crew (which know how much I was involved) of another company if it was invited to the dinner for the completion of the job, I found out another guy from my company went, even though he did little for the job.

What can you do…
 

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

I'm not really one to worry about this sort of thing - but there's one particular case that comes to mind that rankled me a bit.  I'd led a project with a small team and over the course of 6months we came up with an improved process design for a particular process within the company.  We documented the heck out of it, and the boss of my boss trotted us out to various other managers for show-and-tell on a number of occasions.  Many people seemed suitably impressed.  

Soon enough I got a call from a guy in another part of the company who wanted a very similar process and was just starting to put a team together.  He'd heard my name through the grapevine, and wanted to know if I could help.  I volunteered, and provided all of my material from the previous project as background.  No more phone calls, etc., for a while. 2 or 3 weeks later I was in an all-employee meeting where this guy got on stage to reveal the results of his project.  His presentation was the slide pack I'd sent over, except that the names on the team slide had been changed so that it now showed his team instead of mine (I wasn't on there, nor any of my members).  A higher-level manager was very quick to congratulate him on his rapid progress and brilliant leadership, blah blah blah.  I clapped along with the rest of them, and nervously looked around the room to see whether I was going to have to mend bridges with anyone on my team.  Anyway, the guy came to find me a couple weeks later to thank me for my help and ask if I wanted to participate in the next phase of his project.  I didn't mention the meeting, and I volunteered to participate on that team too.  It was also a successful project, and we got pretty good exposure with some higher-level managers.
 

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

B%tch about it.  Ask the boss why you couldn't have gone.

Won't get you anywhere, but it may make you feel better watching him squirm.

I had one boss who made sure we got rewarded -- he set it up so that our crew got "spot bonuses" every time we hit a shipment date (the contract was set up so that we got a bonus payment for being a month ahead of schedule, and a penalty for being a month late), and then followed through with it.  After the 4th spot bonus, the upper management added language to the spot bonus program that disallowed "repeat performances" or some such language.  That boss took early retirement shortly afterwards, some of the rest of us left shortly after too...and those who were left behind got to hold the bag when some of the iffier bits went ka-blooey.

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project


Consider asking this person, without making accusations about his prior actions or motives, if he could give an acknowledgment commending the efforts of the people in the trenches doing all the work.  Name others if there is a team.  Also mention how much it would mean to you.

This will let him know that you are aware of the credit-stealing while gaining what you want (recognition) and not burning a bridge or straining a work relationship.

Personally I’ve never really been bothered by it in any job I’ve ever had.  It comes with the territory.  I don’t let my job define me as a person.  I’m the same whether I am in a position of power, or a grunt.  I've been both.

It bothers me in dance, though.  But I can quit a dance troupe without worrying about how to pay next month’s rent, or whether I can get a position in another dance troupe, or be permanently branded a diva.

 

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

ivymike--

You'll get to Heaven first...

This whole "who gets the credit" thing is a sore point.  I've worked for some people who'd go to extra lengths to acknowledge the people who made things happen, and I've worked for others who'd climb over your still-smoking carcass to take credit for bravely commanding the effort from inside their air-conditioned offices.

I like the first kind better, and I try hard to make sure that I emulate that characteristic.

I guess that's the best you can hope to do further down the road:  be the kind of boss you wish YOU'D had...

old field guy

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

(OP)
Lot of good responses here!  Looks like this is something that engineers come across quite often.   

-Plasmech

Mechanical Engineer, Plastics Industry

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

It's something that happens in any group activity, not just work and certainly not just Engineering.

There are people who try to take credit for more than their fair share.

Typically they are the same people who generally brown nose etc.

Brown Noseing Glory Hogs sadly have a habit of making it disturbingly far in management.

From the other side of then fence, I've been in situations where someone has a basic idea but I then do all the work to make it actually work in practice.  In these situations I sometimes find it hard to make sure I've given the person who had the idea adequate credit while keeping at least some glory for myselfwinky smile.  

I had one like this just an hour or so ago.  Someone had an idea that in its self wouldn't work but made me think of a development that would.  In an email I sent I made it clear he had an idea, his idea wouldn't work but a development of it might.  I'm hoping I struck the right balance.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

Sure, but they're everywhere, so no point in losing sleep over it.  The best you can do is to try and short-circuit the SOB the next time he pops up, by issuing your own status reports, etc.

My funny story:  

This guy, from a former company, interviews at my company, describing to me how he personally worked on saving that company's flagship product.  WTF!!! I worked on that product for the 4 years we struggled to get it out the door, and NEVER ONCE did I ever see him, or even heard about him, relative to the product.  Luckily, my boss ALSO worked in the same previous company, and already had a low opinion of the guy.

TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

Way back in my past I worked with a company that made flow meters. A project required dismantling a bought in register assembly (think of those plastic number registers in water meters), sticking on a magnet to one of the number rollers, and re-assembling the register.
Projet engineering came back to me and advised that it would take about 5-10 minutes to put the assembly back together which made a huge difference to the cost.
I took a bunch of registers home with me and took them apart and rebuilt them. It took me about 20 minutes. Too many fiddly parts and only two hands.
I made up a jig. Basically a block of wood with some headless nails and a groove to hold the frame and then hold all the parts in the right place until the shafts could be put back.
Time to assemble? 20-30seconds.
Took it back and showed it to the project engineers expecting them to go ahead and produce a jig for production to use. A week or two later i wnt down to manufacturing and asked how they were getting on. "Oh, the engineers produced a new jig that does the trick just fine." They showed it to me, it was my wood block with a part number added to it.
I just smiled at that one.
(Nice of them not to get upset about my trespassing on their territory.)

 

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

Confront him, go in his office, close the door, lean over his desk and "explain" the situation, ask him what contributions he made to the project that garners him taking the credit for its success.

If he dosnet respond well to that, kick his ---.

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

This is where Engineers should should copy the entertainment industry:

I am in favour of seeing mandatory rolling credits assigned to every article of engineering that a person might use in their day to day life.  At the completion of using a particular engineered product, one would be forced to endure a minute or so of rolling credits; name, project role, and have the list sorted by billable hours executed on the project.

Cross a bridge - read the credits.
Unload the washing machine - read the credits.
Flip of the bedside lamp at night - read the credits.

OK, so that might be a little tedious at first, but haven't we all come to expect to see Spielberg and Panavision roll up our screens.

PS. No animals were harmed in the engineering of this post.

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

hey, then I might finally get all the cash and hot chicks they promised when i signed up for engineering!

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

Just how it is, at least in the US.  Two things to add -

"Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan"


Grant me the wisdom to change the things I can,

The serenity to accept those things I cannot change, and

The wisdom to hide the bodies of the SOBS I had to kill

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

(OP)
Perhaps part of the problem, if there really is a problem...OK let's say "part of the major annoyance", is that if we all throw our hands up and say "that's just the way it is", then in fact that's just the way it will always be...

-Plasmech

Mechanical Engineer, Plastics Industry

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project


I am certainly not suggesting you throw up your hands and give up.  My suggestion is to look at what your true goal is.  From your OP, I am guessing that you want recognition.  When someone stepped in and took credit for your work without acknowledging your contribution, you got all butt-sore.

Don’t fall back into behaviors that developed in childhood.  Leaving the company over this one episode is the equivalent of taking your toys and going home.  Running to HR (higher power solves conflict) is the “Mommy, Billy hit me.” solution.

Retaliation (aggression) will not get you recognition nor will refusing  to work on (passive / aggressive) any more projects where show-stealer is involved.

The first step is to own up to your feelings, which is anger and hurt.  Next, decide what it is that you are after.  Get back at the show-stealer, and create a long-running tiff between you two, or find a way to work with this individual and get recognition.   I think it is better to try and work within the established framework first.  Communicate your sentiments to the show-stealer.

“Hey, I noticed that you did all the presentation to the Client without mentioning me and my contribution.”

“This made me feel angry and hurt.”

“I’d really like to feel valued and a bit of recognition would go a long way to that end.”

“On future projects, could I do part of the presentation?”

  Maybe this doesn’t quite fit your scenario, but I hope it gives you a workable example.
 

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

Maybe get these guys to explain to the client how it works? Hopefully they will hang themselves.

Or

While you are designing these things make sure you send your own 'status reports' to the client and the upper management leaving no room for misunderstandings.

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

pdf everything with your name one it, so they cant just change the name  

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

Quote:

"Perhaps part of the problem, if there really is a problem...OK let's say "part of the major annoyance", is that if we all throw our hands up and say "that's just the way it is", then in fact that's just the way it will always be...

I feel that about a lot of things Plasmech.  However, it comes back to:

Grant me the wisdom to change the things I can,

The serenity to accept those things I cannot change, and

The wisdom to hide the bodies of the SOBS I had to kill know the difference.  

As blacksmith put it.

Most people feel we can't change this much as it's a fundamental human flaw.  Even if you do change one offender, I'm sure another one will turn up eventually.

You could try talking to him but I have to say I'm skeptical that it would achieve much.  (No offense Cass, you generally give very good advice, but if someone used the approach you gave at most places I've worked they'd get laughed at, potentially leading to complete humiliation).

You can try and make sure the relevant management know it was actually you that did it.  You can try and make it more difficult for the guy to steel the credit but trying to completely stop this other guy from trying to take the credit will be very difficult.

Now if you're willing to be sneaky, dastardly, underhanded...

Then I have some ideaswinky smile.
 

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

You could always just talk to your local mofia rep....

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

The only thing to do at this point imho is to prepare for the next project.  Send out regular updates and copy those who 'need to know'.  This does not include the credit-stealing, backstabbing $%#@!*& that you had to deal with this time.  Please excuse my languagewinky smile

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

If he is not technically sound, you could leave some booby traps for him to wrangle with, akin to btrueblood forgetting to reset the kill switch. These tactics will require your managers to be competent enough to notice his ignorance, but no so smart as to discover your plot.

Keep your boss in the loop with frequent updates. Keep the show stealer out of the loop with old or inaccurate information.

You could also stump him with some tough questions during the demonstration/presentation, just be careful not to appear as a jerk.

Again, if he is technically weak, explain the machine's operation incorrectly to him during development and then correct his explanation when he is stealing the show. This will only work once unless he is really stupid, so you have to make it count. Tell him "it's all about the flux capacitor" or something like that.

You have to be very careful when using these tactics that you do not embarrass your company in front of the client or make your department look bad in front of upper management. You have to keep it internal or else you are stooping to his level.

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

Plasmech,

You caused a rewind to 1984 in my overtaxed inner-playback mechanism.

I had courted a client for two years, finally got the contract, and developed a wastewater treatment process modification that could potentially save the city almost $5 million per year in electric cost.  Following up on that, I got the contract to make it happen.  I designed and purchased the hardware, wrote the software, installed it all, and made it work.  I dubbed the system AEROPT at the time. Within six months, the savings level was proven beyond doubt.  I got a hearty handclasp from the boss for my efforts, since I had done absolutely all of it with no help.

Fast forward another six months.  I'm on vacation in San Francisco, and during a lull while waiting on my wife to get dressed one evening, I turn on the TV in the hotel room.  On the news at that very moment is a co-worker of mine, accepting an award from the Secretary of Energy for "Municipal Energy Innovator of the Year" at a gala function in Washington. The award was given for AEROPT. In his fifteen-second sound bite, my co-worker managed to claim the entire work as his own.

How did I cope?  Back then, after drinking much scotch, I quit and started my own company, took all the business from my old one, and hired away all their good people.

Nowadays, it's still a bit of an albatross for me.  Like the Ancient Mariner, I am doomed to repeat this story to any who will listen when the topic comes up.

Thank you all for your kind attention.

There was a ship...

Goober Dave

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

Plasmech-I have seen T-shirts with this on it probably since you born.

The 6 stages of any project:

1 Enthusiasm

2 Disillusionment

3 Panic

4 Search for the guilty

5 Punishment of the innocent

6 Reward of the non-participants

One thing that can happen on a project is that you get so involved, and working so hard that no one bothers to put the pieces together for management or the client.  Management may have been asked whats going on with the project, your to tired or to busy to adequately report on whats going on so managmetn appoints someone else to track the project.  It's an easy position from which to assume credit. The moral is never get to busy to toot your own horn and let people know exactly what and how YOU are doing.
 

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

I had a colleague who was an expert brown-noser.
I put together a system for a client with a low cost PID off the shelf. It was the right product.
We were bought out by Fisher.
My colleague grabbed the order, got on to the client and convinced them that what they really needed was the Fisher TL series controller (TL100?) 1" wide, 6" high and about a yard deep, this was totally not the right product plus it cost a bunch more cash. It also didn't have bias.
My colleague was great at collecting kudos from the new Fisher owners but when the client called up all hot and bothered he went and hid.
B****d.
Oh well.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

On the next project, make a list of who's on your team and list their roles (approved of course), make reports on the general team progress.  Then, when this fellow shows up, you can easily ask or confront what he is doing and his role.

Or, make him part of the team with a clearly defined role, pecking order.  See what happens.

It happens, just wait till it's your boss that does it, then who do you go to?

==========================================
Business Page   http://mech.e.tripod.com
------------------------------------------
Motorradtraum....www.tailofthedragon.com

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

Quote (Pressed):

It happens, just wait till it's your boss that does it, then who do you go to?

See DRWeig's email for guidance. My point was that if it's the boss doing it to you, it will never get better, and maybe opening your own company and putting him out of business is the fun way to handle it.

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

Fight for your credits!.  Here some ideas I've taken from others:

- Send report e-mails with CC/BCC to the big fishes when it's possible.  If your boss complains, say it was a typing mistake.
- Hide key details for your showtime. It will be your artillery when you had to face the jealous PG.
- A friend of mine was asked to send the C++ code from a innovative s/w, to a teacher at college -of course for taking the credit.  He sent him a copy with all even lines missing.   
- Long ago, I used to mark PCB designs with a sort of personal 'logo', conveniently hidden, right before sending the files to the board manufacturer.
- Great idea that of marking your PDFs or adding watermarks to documents and diagrams.  Credits to Gymmeh (Mechanical) 16 Apr 08 11:16 winky smile   

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

Yes this is very common as has been noted.

IMO it's partially the result of the real project manager not keeping everyone including other managers and people on their own team with information. This has already been touched on but I'll give my take.

The real project manager should publish milestones and make acknowledgments of people that contributed along the way.

When the project is finally complete there should be a reviews of all the milestones along the way, name names, which then clearly shows that 1) it's a team effort, 2) easy to identify those that contributed (handy for review purposes as well) 3) Makes it much more difficult for people to come along at the end and claim credit.

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

What a great statement from Oilfield!  "Be the kind of Boss you wish You'd had."  

Would not the Engineering profession be so much better if we all lived by that.  You young guys who are going to get your shot someday remember that.      

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

Sorry credit to Oilfieldguy, not Oilfield.  Got so caught up with the wisdom of that statement.

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

Helicopterjunky, I think you just showed us how easy it is for someone to give credit to the wrong person.

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

Ok Ykee, I knew someone would have to highlight me for complimenting a great statement.  Don't miss the bigger point worrying about my diction.

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

I think the thing that complicates the issue further is that many engineers put their heart and soul into technical details to achieve as close to perfection as humanly possible, but they don't spend enough time networking with people. Many business people are successful while their only useful skill is to put people together and play the game. It's unfair but true. Think of all the junk products that sell like hell. It's all the non-technical details like marketing and hype that herd the masses into forfeiting their money. It's stupid.

I have my BSME, but I eventually want to earn a business degree too and learn how the game is played. Machiavelli was wrong. I might be naive in my young age, but I believe it is possible to be both respected and revered with no adverse consequences of one upon the other. I've known very good managers and very bad managers in the crappy jobs that got me through school, and I hope I have some clue as to how to do a good job more so than someone without any experience on the bottom. I've been a salesman, a helpdesk gopher, a cashier, a photo clerk, a research assistant, a car detailer, a delivery driver, and a dish washer. I've scrubbed plenty of toilets, scraped plenty of mysterious gunk, and put up with plenty of bitchy customers. Nothing in my current engineering job has really surprised me because I've gotten so familiar with the working world. It doesn't matter if you're on the bottom or the the middle; you're going to get screwed over every now and then.

I used to complain to my father about working at Walgreens, and he gave me this nugget of wisdom: "As long as you're working for the man, every job is retail." Every job is going to suck somehow. Luckily I've found one that sucks less than any other I've had!

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

I try as much as I can, without brown-nosing, to stay in touch with people upstairs. I'm sometimes arrogant and blunt in an effort to ward off suspicions that I'm only looking for a promotion. I care for the success of my company for the only reason that I'm in it and that I'm partially responsible for its future. It's a small company with <200 people at the main branch. I'm constantly pointing out errors in company publications and offering suggestions for improvement. However, I work first to be sure that my core responsibilities are handled as my top priority.

I don't think I'll ever run into problems with recognition because I'm in touch at all times with so many people. I'm trying as hard as I can to befriend as many people in the warehouse as possible so I can be in touch with what's going on below my department too. I've had jobs similar to theirs for too long to forget about what they have to put up with.

The promotion potential seems slim where I am, but the pay raise potential seems reasonable. There are only two engineers above me along with three technicians in the department. (They only "outrank" me because of their insane time there.) My current pay sucks for the degree, but as I said, it's not a bad job. The size of the company allows me much more control of what's going on than in a larger company, and I like that.

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

Kevindurette wrote:

Quote:

....many engineers put their heart and soul into technical details to achieve as close to perfection as humanly possible...
and....

Quote:

Think of all the junk products that sell like hell. It's all the non-technical details like marketing and hype that herd the masses into forfeiting their money. It's stupid.
Kevin, you are quite right in the first that this is a tendency of engineers. That is why engineers are part of a team with sales and marketing. Listen to your dad, it is all about making products to sell.

The most important thing to understand is what makes a good product. Once you have that figured out then you will understand the engineers true role and his inter-dependence on sales and marketing.... a three-legged stool to milk the market.

It is simple, a good product is one that sells well.
Now, if engineers have their way the product can end up over-engineered. I have seen many examples of this and it does no one any good. In the UK, a company that made water meters (and had done since the 1850's) set out in 1963 to design a new meter and the resultant meter had many features that today's meters have but what did their clients think? The Metropolitan Water Board (London's water company and later Thames Water) said: "It is a Rolls Royce of meters!"
They then bought instead the much simpler and less expensive Kent meter. Today water meters now include many of the features they included but not then.
However well engineered it was, however innovative it was the wrong product at the wrong time.

It was the end of this companies involvement with water meter manufacture.

One of the biggest disasters was when a company I worked for established engineering dominance and instead of Sales and Marketing had a department called Engineering and Marketing.

Listen to sales and marketing. Unless you and they are fully aligned there will be conflict and failure.


 

 

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that I'll never be fully satisfied with a job until I'm working for myself. Luckily there are plenty of online and library resources to learn how everything works in that respect. I won't even consider it until I'm confident in my understanding of business, including financing, accounting, sales, marketing, pricing, etc. A high percentage of stat-ups fail, and a lack of preparation is a key reason why. Funding is another one, but hopefully my current job can take care of part of that.

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

I think the figures are that of companies in the USA where the starter took outside investment, the original owner ends up owning less than 5% of the final company. (and usually is leveraged out with a two year non-compete).

(Be interested if anyone has any better data than this.)

This is a classic case of the proverbial guy who steals the show... investors that steal the company.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

There's often not much really to steal.  I was involved with a company that was self-funded initially, but etc., etc., the owner needed more money and gave up control to the VCs, and indeed got booted out.  However, the company folded within a few years anyway, and fortunately, I never accepted the employment offer, which included stock options that would have never materialized.

TTFN

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RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

In the Marines I have had many different bosses with many different styles.  Some stole the credit, some gave credit where credit was due, and some didn't know their ass from their elbow.  I would like to share something I have learned and passed on to the Marines working under me.  Everyone has their own leadership style and when you are developing yours look at all the previous leaders you have had and take what you can from them and incorporate these points into your own style.  I have yet to work under someone that didn't do something right, even if that something is being so knowledgable about the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) that he can and did kick anyone out of the Marines he didn't like.  This gets back to oldfieldguy's post.  Be the kind of boss you wish you had, but learn from all the bad ones along the way.

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

One related subject is the concept of "doing the right thing."

Unfortunately, the right thing can often be bad for most of the people you work with.  

Case in point.  I had a GM whose first action was to cancel ALL IR&D projects, followed by forcing last time buys on our bread&butter products, so old that we subbed EVERYTHING, including printing our logo on the part, and still made money.  We thought he was insane and muttered about management logic inverters, since he essentially crippled the division for any future business.  But, from his perspective, he understood that he had no more tha 6 months to turn around a failing division.  At the end of the 6 months, he would either be fired or promoted.  In either case, he wouldn't be around to see the long term effects of his actions.  He chose to be promoted, thereby ensuring the eventual doom of the division.

So, where do you want to be in 6 months?  Looking for a job, or looking at your new office?  This is often a tough choice, particularly for idealistic engineers.

TTFN

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RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

CC or BCC management periodically seems a good idea if management is reading their email.

But I just heard, not directly, about two of our higher managers who had a email signature like "if you want me read your email, you have to send directly to me, not CC".

I am working at the lowest level of our company, so my boss is lowest manager in the hierachry. He is not even reading the email I copied him on. What I usually do is to copy him and then offer a oral update if possible. Our group only has 20 people or so and my boss is not doing any real work.

RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project

I think your boss should check the email more often. Perhaps they fired him long ago and he doesn't know. LOL

 

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