The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
(OP)
Anybody deal with this one...
You're the head guy on a project. Maybe the only guy. You're busting your butt getting drawings done, stuff spec'd out, parts ordered, in on time, fabricated, basically everything that the machine is well...it "is" becauuse you exist and for no other reason. You get the thing up and running. Beta site customer shows up to take a look at it, he loves it. Oh wait...what's this, is it a bird...a plane, a ufo? No, it's the proverbial guy who shows up after all the real work is done to steal the show. He's not necessarily a sales/marketing guy. he might just be someone that's been there a long time. Firneds with the owner. Whatever. He might not even be an engineer. But now it's beta site time, the fun stuff (more fun that drawings all day long anyway). Now show stealer is well, seemingly running the show. He's sending out status emails, reporting to the owner. You get mad, really mad. So mad you don't want to be there anymore. But...what do you do?
Anyone experience this type of thing?
(In the interest of not being sexist, one may replace the word "guy" with "gal" in this post if he/she choses)
You're the head guy on a project. Maybe the only guy. You're busting your butt getting drawings done, stuff spec'd out, parts ordered, in on time, fabricated, basically everything that the machine is well...it "is" becauuse you exist and for no other reason. You get the thing up and running. Beta site customer shows up to take a look at it, he loves it. Oh wait...what's this, is it a bird...a plane, a ufo? No, it's the proverbial guy who shows up after all the real work is done to steal the show. He's not necessarily a sales/marketing guy. he might just be someone that's been there a long time. Firneds with the owner. Whatever. He might not even be an engineer. But now it's beta site time, the fun stuff (more fun that drawings all day long anyway). Now show stealer is well, seemingly running the show. He's sending out status emails, reporting to the owner. You get mad, really mad. So mad you don't want to be there anymore. But...what do you do?
Anyone experience this type of thing?
(In the interest of not being sexist, one may replace the word "guy" with "gal" in this post if he/she choses)
-Plasmech
Mechanical Engineer, Plastics Industry





RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
If you don't want to be there, don't be there. Take a vacation. You can't be productive until your attitude recovers.
There is some risk; the scene- stealer may have your job when you return.
So, you might want to make it a 'working' vacation, as in working a while for someone else to see if a different snakepit is more to your liking.
My experience has been that snakepits are all pretty much the same, and are all full of snakes.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
Does PG have a working knowledge of what makes the machine do what it does and why? If not the lack of detailed knowledge can easily be shown up at the most opportune of times ... but might have consequences.
Where is PG getting his info from? What is to stop you from pre-empting his reports with your own more detailed versions?
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
-Plasmech
Mechanical Engineer, Plastics Industry
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
David
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
www.muleshoe-eng.com
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RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
-Plasmech
Mechanical Engineer, Plastics Industry
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
Basically take a break away from it and then come back with a clear head. May just be the 'count to 10' but on a larger scale.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
-Plasmech
Mechanical Engineer, Plastics Industry
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
Yes, having been given a task and done it well I put together a report which I circulated for comment before submission to he who pays the salary. Before that happened we had a meeting with the boss and this brown-noser started in with a verbal report based on my written report but as if it was his own.
What did I do?
Nothing but learn from it. Like they say, experience is a good teacher but sends big bills.
What were my options?
Most of them would make me look like a jerk and the rest would get me jailed.
By the way, the holiday option has a practical side to it.
While you're away he has to run the show on his own. So ok, if he is the brown-nose type, any mistakes will be latent defects caused by you, so who said life was fair?
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
-Plasmech
Mechanical Engineer, Plastics Industry
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
You are not stupid, perhaps you are not in the USA?
What they are trying to tell you is this:
1.)It happens in every company.
2.)It infuriates each of us it happens to.
3.)It generally is best to cool off before killing the SOB.
4.)It is the reason that I work alone....... because I have never believed in #3 above.
Only you can determine if you can follow steps 1-3 above.
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
No, really, I try and let the tech's. have the moment. It shuts up the PG, and reminds everyone that the credit can be spread around quite a bit. It's best to hide the start button, too, or "forget" to reset the kill/e-stop switch, in case the PG tries to steal the moment.
If it was a bridge opening...I'd be sitting in a piece of mobile equipment on the un-open side of the ribbon, with a few of my hand-picked crew...and fire up the motor and drive across as "firsties" while the speechifiers were still blah-blahing...then off to the pub.
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
What can you do…
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
Soon enough I got a call from a guy in another part of the company who wanted a very similar process and was just starting to put a team together. He'd heard my name through the grapevine, and wanted to know if I could help. I volunteered, and provided all of my material from the previous project as background. No more phone calls, etc., for a while. 2 or 3 weeks later I was in an all-employee meeting where this guy got on stage to reveal the results of his project. His presentation was the slide pack I'd sent over, except that the names on the team slide had been changed so that it now showed his team instead of mine (I wasn't on there, nor any of my members). A higher-level manager was very quick to congratulate him on his rapid progress and brilliant leadership, blah blah blah. I clapped along with the rest of them, and nervously looked around the room to see whether I was going to have to mend bridges with anyone on my team. Anyway, the guy came to find me a couple weeks later to thank me for my help and ask if I wanted to participate in the next phase of his project. I didn't mention the meeting, and I volunteered to participate on that team too. It was also a successful project, and we got pretty good exposure with some higher-level managers.
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
Won't get you anywhere, but it may make you feel better watching him squirm.
I had one boss who made sure we got rewarded -- he set it up so that our crew got "spot bonuses" every time we hit a shipment date (the contract was set up so that we got a bonus payment for being a month ahead of schedule, and a penalty for being a month late), and then followed through with it. After the 4th spot bonus, the upper management added language to the spot bonus program that disallowed "repeat performances" or some such language. That boss took early retirement shortly afterwards, some of the rest of us left shortly after too...and those who were left behind got to hold the bag when some of the iffier bits went ka-blooey.
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
Consider asking this person, without making accusations about his prior actions or motives, if he could give an acknowledgment commending the efforts of the people in the trenches doing all the work. Name others if there is a team. Also mention how much it would mean to you.
This will let him know that you are aware of the credit-stealing while gaining what you want (recognition) and not burning a bridge or straining a work relationship.
Personally I’ve never really been bothered by it in any job I’ve ever had. It comes with the territory. I don’t let my job define me as a person. I’m the same whether I am in a position of power, or a grunt. I've been both.
It bothers me in dance, though. But I can quit a dance troupe without worrying about how to pay next month’s rent, or whether I can get a position in another dance troupe, or be permanently branded a diva.
"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
You'll get to Heaven first...
This whole "who gets the credit" thing is a sore point. I've worked for some people who'd go to extra lengths to acknowledge the people who made things happen, and I've worked for others who'd climb over your still-smoking carcass to take credit for bravely commanding the effort from inside their air-conditioned offices.
I like the first kind better, and I try hard to make sure that I emulate that characteristic.
I guess that's the best you can hope to do further down the road: be the kind of boss you wish YOU'D had...
old field guy
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
-Plasmech
Mechanical Engineer, Plastics Industry
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
There are people who try to take credit for more than their fair share.
Typically they are the same people who generally brown nose etc.
Brown Noseing Glory Hogs sadly have a habit of making it disturbingly far in management.
From the other side of then fence, I've been in situations where someone has a basic idea but I then do all the work to make it actually work in practice. In these situations I sometimes find it hard to make sure I've given the person who had the idea adequate credit while keeping at least some glory for myself
I had one like this just an hour or so ago. Someone had an idea that in its self wouldn't work but made me think of a development that would. In an email I sent I made it clear he had an idea, his idea wouldn't work but a development of it might. I'm hoping I struck the right balance.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
My funny story:
This guy, from a former company, interviews at my company, describing to me how he personally worked on saving that company's flagship product. WTF!!! I worked on that product for the 4 years we struggled to get it out the door, and NEVER ONCE did I ever see him, or even heard about him, relative to the product. Luckily, my boss ALSO worked in the same previous company, and already had a low opinion of the guy.
TTFN
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RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
Projet engineering came back to me and advised that it would take about 5-10 minutes to put the assembly back together which made a huge difference to the cost.
I took a bunch of registers home with me and took them apart and rebuilt them. It took me about 20 minutes. Too many fiddly parts and only two hands.
I made up a jig. Basically a block of wood with some headless nails and a groove to hold the frame and then hold all the parts in the right place until the shafts could be put back.
Time to assemble? 20-30seconds.
Took it back and showed it to the project engineers expecting them to go ahead and produce a jig for production to use. A week or two later i wnt down to manufacturing and asked how they were getting on. "Oh, the engineers produced a new jig that does the trick just fine." They showed it to me, it was my wood block with a part number added to it.
I just smiled at that one.
(Nice of them not to get upset about my trespassing on their territory.)
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
If he dosnet respond well to that, kick his ---.
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
I am in favour of seeing mandatory rolling credits assigned to every article of engineering that a person might use in their day to day life. At the completion of using a particular engineered product, one would be forced to endure a minute or so of rolling credits; name, project role, and have the list sorted by billable hours executed on the project.
Cross a bridge - read the credits.
Unload the washing machine - read the credits.
Flip of the bedside lamp at night - read the credits.
OK, so that might be a little tedious at first, but haven't we all come to expect to see Spielberg and Panavision roll up our screens.
PS. No animals were harmed in the engineering of this post.
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
"Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan"
Grant me the wisdom to change the things I can,
The serenity to accept those things I cannot change, and
The wisdom to hide the bodies of the SOBS I had to kill
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
-Plasmech
Mechanical Engineer, Plastics Industry
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
I am certainly not suggesting you throw up your hands and give up. My suggestion is to look at what your true goal is. From your OP, I am guessing that you want recognition. When someone stepped in and took credit for your work without acknowledging your contribution, you got all butt-sore.
Don’t fall back into behaviors that developed in childhood. Leaving the company over this one episode is the equivalent of taking your toys and going home. Running to HR (higher power solves conflict) is the “Mommy, Billy hit me.” solution.
Retaliation (aggression) will not get you recognition nor will refusing to work on (passive / aggressive) any more projects where show-stealer is involved.
The first step is to own up to your feelings, which is anger and hurt. Next, decide what it is that you are after. Get back at the show-stealer, and create a long-running tiff between you two, or find a way to work with this individual and get recognition. I think it is better to try and work within the established framework first. Communicate your sentiments to the show-stealer.
“Hey, I noticed that you did all the presentation to the Client without mentioning me and my contribution.”
“This made me feel angry and hurt.”
“I’d really like to feel valued and a bit of recognition would go a long way to that end.”
“On future projects, could I do part of the presentation?”
Maybe this doesn’t quite fit your scenario, but I hope it gives you a workable example.
"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
Or
While you are designing these things make sure you send your own 'status reports' to the client and the upper management leaving no room for misunderstandings.
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
I feel that about a lot of things Plasmech. However, it comes back to:
Grant me the wisdom to change the things I can,
The serenity to accept those things I cannot change, and
The wisdom to
hide the bodies of the SOBS I had to killknow the difference.As blacksmith put it.
Most people feel we can't change this much as it's a fundamental human flaw. Even if you do change one offender, I'm sure another one will turn up eventually.
You could try talking to him but I have to say I'm skeptical that it would achieve much. (No offense Cass, you generally give very good advice, but if someone used the approach you gave at most places I've worked they'd get laughed at, potentially leading to complete humiliation).
You can try and make sure the relevant management know it was actually you that did it. You can try and make it more difficult for the guy to steel the credit but trying to completely stop this other guy from trying to take the credit will be very difficult.
Now if you're willing to be sneaky, dastardly, underhanded...
Then I have some ideas
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
Keep your boss in the loop with frequent updates. Keep the show stealer out of the loop with old or inaccurate information.
You could also stump him with some tough questions during the demonstration/presentation, just be careful not to appear as a jerk.
Again, if he is technically weak, explain the machine's operation incorrectly to him during development and then correct his explanation when he is stealing the show. This will only work once unless he is really stupid, so you have to make it count. Tell him "it's all about the flux capacitor" or something like that.
You have to be very careful when using these tactics that you do not embarrass your company in front of the client or make your department look bad in front of upper management. You have to keep it internal or else you are stooping to his level.
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
You caused a rewind to 1984 in my overtaxed inner-playback mechanism.
I had courted a client for two years, finally got the contract, and developed a wastewater treatment process modification that could potentially save the city almost $5 million per year in electric cost. Following up on that, I got the contract to make it happen. I designed and purchased the hardware, wrote the software, installed it all, and made it work. I dubbed the system AEROPT at the time. Within six months, the savings level was proven beyond doubt. I got a hearty handclasp from the boss for my efforts, since I had done absolutely all of it with no help.
Fast forward another six months. I'm on vacation in San Francisco, and during a lull while waiting on my wife to get dressed one evening, I turn on the TV in the hotel room. On the news at that very moment is a co-worker of mine, accepting an award from the Secretary of Energy for "Municipal Energy Innovator of the Year" at a gala function in Washington. The award was given for AEROPT. In his fifteen-second sound bite, my co-worker managed to claim the entire work as his own.
How did I cope? Back then, after drinking much scotch, I quit and started my own company, took all the business from my old one, and hired away all their good people.
Nowadays, it's still a bit of an albatross for me. Like the Ancient Mariner, I am doomed to repeat this story to any who will listen when the topic comes up.
Thank you all for your kind attention.
There was a ship...
Goober Dave
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
The 6 stages of any project:
1 Enthusiasm
2 Disillusionment
3 Panic
4 Search for the guilty
5 Punishment of the innocent
6 Reward of the non-participants
One thing that can happen on a project is that you get so involved, and working so hard that no one bothers to put the pieces together for management or the client. Management may have been asked whats going on with the project, your to tired or to busy to adequately report on whats going on so managmetn appoints someone else to track the project. It's an easy position from which to assume credit. The moral is never get to busy to toot your own horn and let people know exactly what and how YOU are doing.
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
I put together a system for a client with a low cost PID off the shelf. It was the right product.
We were bought out by Fisher.
My colleague grabbed the order, got on to the client and convinced them that what they really needed was the Fisher TL series controller (TL100?) 1" wide, 6" high and about a yard deep, this was totally not the right product plus it cost a bunch more cash. It also didn't have bias.
My colleague was great at collecting kudos from the new Fisher owners but when the client called up all hot and bothered he went and hid.
B****d.
Oh well.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
Or, make him part of the team with a clearly defined role, pecking order. See what happens.
It happens, just wait till it's your boss that does it, then who do you go to?
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RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
See DRWeig's email for guidance. My point was that if it's the boss doing it to you, it will never get better, and maybe opening your own company and putting him out of business is the fun way to handle it.
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
- Send report e-mails with CC/BCC to the big fishes when it's possible. If your boss complains, say it was a typing mistake.
- Hide key details for your showtime. It will be your artillery when you had to face the jealous PG.
- A friend of mine was asked to send the C++ code from a innovative s/w, to a teacher at college -of course for taking the credit. He sent him a copy with all even lines missing.
- Long ago, I used to mark PCB designs with a sort of personal 'logo', conveniently hidden, right before sending the files to the board manufacturer.
- Great idea that of marking your PDFs or adding watermarks to documents and diagrams. Credits to Gymmeh (Mechanical) 16 Apr 08 11:16
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
IMO it's partially the result of the real project manager not keeping everyone including other managers and people on their own team with information. This has already been touched on but I'll give my take.
The real project manager should publish milestones and make acknowledgments of people that contributed along the way.
When the project is finally complete there should be a reviews of all the milestones along the way, name names, which then clearly shows that 1) it's a team effort, 2) easy to identify those that contributed (handy for review purposes as well) 3) Makes it much more difficult for people to come along at the end and claim credit.
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
Would not the Engineering profession be so much better if we all lived by that. You young guys who are going to get your shot someday remember that.
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
I have my BSME, but I eventually want to earn a business degree too and learn how the game is played. Machiavelli was wrong. I might be naive in my young age, but I believe it is possible to be both respected and revered with no adverse consequences of one upon the other. I've known very good managers and very bad managers in the crappy jobs that got me through school, and I hope I have some clue as to how to do a good job more so than someone without any experience on the bottom. I've been a salesman, a helpdesk gopher, a cashier, a photo clerk, a research assistant, a car detailer, a delivery driver, and a dish washer. I've scrubbed plenty of toilets, scraped plenty of mysterious gunk, and put up with plenty of bitchy customers. Nothing in my current engineering job has really surprised me because I've gotten so familiar with the working world. It doesn't matter if you're on the bottom or the the middle; you're going to get screwed over every now and then.
I used to complain to my father about working at Walgreens, and he gave me this nugget of wisdom: "As long as you're working for the man, every job is retail." Every job is going to suck somehow. Luckily I've found one that sucks less than any other I've had!
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
I don't think I'll ever run into problems with recognition because I'm in touch at all times with so many people. I'm trying as hard as I can to befriend as many people in the warehouse as possible so I can be in touch with what's going on below my department too. I've had jobs similar to theirs for too long to forget about what they have to put up with.
The promotion potential seems slim where I am, but the pay raise potential seems reasonable. There are only two engineers above me along with three technicians in the department. (They only "outrank" me because of their insane time there.) My current pay sucks for the degree, but as I said, it's not a bad job. The size of the company allows me much more control of what's going on than in a larger company, and I like that.
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
The most important thing to understand is what makes a good product. Once you have that figured out then you will understand the engineers true role and his inter-dependence on sales and marketing.... a three-legged stool to milk the market.
It is simple, a good product is one that sells well.
Now, if engineers have their way the product can end up over-engineered. I have seen many examples of this and it does no one any good. In the UK, a company that made water meters (and had done since the 1850's) set out in 1963 to design a new meter and the resultant meter had many features that today's meters have but what did their clients think? The Metropolitan Water Board (London's water company and later Thames Water) said: "It is a Rolls Royce of meters!"
They then bought instead the much simpler and less expensive Kent meter. Today water meters now include many of the features they included but not then.
However well engineered it was, however innovative it was the wrong product at the wrong time.
It was the end of this companies involvement with water meter manufacture.
One of the biggest disasters was when a company I worked for established engineering dominance and instead of Sales and Marketing had a department called Engineering and Marketing.
Listen to sales and marketing. Unless you and they are fully aligned there will be conflict and failure.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
(Be interested if anyone has any better data than this.)
This is a classic case of the proverbial guy who steals the show... investors that steal the company.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
TTFN
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RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
Unfortunately, the right thing can often be bad for most of the people you work with.
Case in point. I had a GM whose first action was to cancel ALL IR&D projects, followed by forcing last time buys on our bread&butter products, so old that we subbed EVERYTHING, including printing our logo on the part, and still made money. We thought he was insane and muttered about management logic inverters, since he essentially crippled the division for any future business. But, from his perspective, he understood that he had no more tha 6 months to turn around a failing division. At the end of the 6 months, he would either be fired or promoted. In either case, he wouldn't be around to see the long term effects of his actions. He chose to be promoted, thereby ensuring the eventual doom of the division.
So, where do you want to be in 6 months? Looking for a job, or looking at your new office? This is often a tough choice, particularly for idealistic engineers.
TTFN
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RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project
But I just heard, not directly, about two of our higher managers who had a email signature like "if you want me read your email, you have to send directly to me, not CC".
I am working at the lowest level of our company, so my boss is lowest manager in the hierachry. He is not even reading the email I copied him on. What I usually do is to copy him and then offer a oral update if possible. Our group only has 20 people or so and my boss is not doing any real work.
RE: The proverbial guy who steals the show at the end of the project