Burning all my vendor bridges
Burning all my vendor bridges
(OP)
Does anybody else ever have this problem: you get put on a project that's got a fire lit under it. Draw everything up, get the off-the-shelf parts quoted from your vendors. Some of this quote work involves engineering consultation itself or even people flying in to see the application. You finally get all your quotes, you calculate the cost of the machine, ready to order everything and then...someone puts out the fire. No real market for this thing all of a sudden. Something else more important. Oh well, project over (for now).
Now imagine this happening several times over the course of a few years. Imagine what the vendors think at this point. Now a project comes through that really is going to become a reality. But uh oh...burnt all my bridges.
Anyone deal with this?
Now imagine this happening several times over the course of a few years. Imagine what the vendors think at this point. Now a project comes through that really is going to become a reality. But uh oh...burnt all my bridges.
Anyone deal with this?
-Plasmech
Mechanical Engineer, Plastics Industry





RE: Burning all my vendor bridges
Don't sweat it.
David
RE: Burning all my vendor bridges
Vendors deal with projects that get delayed irregularly, indefinitely, or forever, all the time. I don't know how they deal with it, but they do.
Expect them to behave professionally, but don't expect any hoop- jumping.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Burning all my vendor bridges
Over the years, I've done many things that got cancelled, and I don't hesitate to work with good people, but there are people in this world who feel that all vendors are there to be treated like crap, and they get the least attention and intetest, and after a while it's the 'boy who cried wolf' syndrome.
RE: Burning all my vendor bridges
RE: Burning all my vendor bridges
Cheers
Greg Locock
SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Burning all my vendor bridges
I have had very few experiences where I buy directly from a manufacturer. I mostly buy packaged equipment and while virtually all high speed 500 hp engines modified for natural gas come from Cat or Waukesha, there are thousands of people who package compressors, pumps, or gensets with Cat or Waukesha engines. Of the thousands of packagers, there are hundreds that meet any set of selection criteria you name.
If you have a particular widget that can only come from one source and there is no reasonable alternative then you'll tend to get their price list and just insert it into the economics without bothering the vendor. If if is a custom deal with a single source (something that I've never seen, but understand they exist) then you have to make managing that relationship a priority--those are not bridges that you can burn with impunity.
David
RE: Burning all my vendor bridges
The best thing to do is follow up with key vendors and discuss the situation. Do your best to assure them you were acting in good faith and that you appreciate all they have done for you.
RE: Burning all my vendor bridges
I am working on several projects with some new and existing vendors setup in our system. Everything is going great they give me tons of support, a lot of free engineering, etc. and we carry their budget numbers.
Than inevitabely three things happen.
1) Purchasing decides that they can buy it cheaper somewhere else, so they go bid it out and get an inferior product because purchasing didn't understand all of the requirements.
2) Purchasing beats up the vendor so much on price that they get mad and don't want to do free work for us anymore. Which it turn means I have to all of that work myself.
3) When we do buy their product, I get a call 9 months into the project from the vendor saying we a 4 months past due on payment. So I run down to accounting and raise hell. They blaim it on purchasing not entering the order right, puchasing blames it on accounting. I then have to hand carry it up the food chain to get all of the right people to sign off on it and apoligize to the vendor.
These things don't happen all of the time at my company, but when it does watch out, because I am coming down the hall with a vengance.
Zuccus
RE: Burning all my vendor bridges
Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 06/08
ctopher's home (updated 10-07-07)
RE: Burning all my vendor bridges
Those three things happen to me allllll the time. It drives me crazy but unfortunately there is not much I can do about it.
It's easier on me now that I've accepted it's going to happen and am always as honest as possible. If there is the slightest chance that the project might not be a go, then I tell them upfront. If - and this is the case 99% of the time - the purchasers will only buy what's cheapest then I tell them that. I don't feel as bad if I don't feel like I lied to them.
I get upset about it though, b/c a vendor will help me size certain equipment then when the PO gets issued it goes to his competitor b/c they're $10 cheaper.
All this leads to several burnt bridges. And then none of the higher ups can figure out why it is so hard to get any favors done. And then, what's their response when I tell them someone won't do a favor for us? "We'll just find another one". We are running out of options... So frustrating... Or purchasing will buy a part that looks similar to them but is actually slightly different, so that we can't even use it anymore, and then they expect us to make it work...
Sorry about the little rant at the end. ha
RE: Burning all my vendor bridges
Open lines of communication is the key, be straight with them and they'll be straight with you.
"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."
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RE: Burning all my vendor bridges
RE: Burning all my vendor bridges
When you KNOW the project is doomed (the forced death march, as Greg so aptly put it), well... Technically, you may be obligated by contracts you signed at hiring on to keep your mouth shut. But there are ways to communicate non-verbally, or between the lines, to let you vendor know that the end may be near. Sometimes your own conscience may force you to be more direct. I was in a situation where I knew the budget had become live-or-die tight for the company I was working for, and they were beginning to stiff our best vendors on payments (I even had one of my receipts get denied for purchases I'd made for the company for some equipment). Upper management was actively discussing and arranging sweetheart "golden parachutes" for themselves when the company went bankrupt. A particular software vendor told me he was out-of-pocket over 1 million dollars to us, and had taken a third mortgage on his house to make payroll for his employees. Him, I took out for a drink that night, and explained what I thought was going down in no uncertain terms, and why. Dunno if it helped him much, as I left for better horizons shortly afterwards, but at least I can sleep (somewhat) at night.
RE: Burning all my vendor bridges
This is a problem often discussed among my peers doing the some sort of work - how to "stroke" the vendors for equipment sizing / application engineering / budgetary pricing when they know that we, as the deign consultant, will not be placing the POs (but will be placed by yet-unknown international contractors. One strategy we have adopted is to declare that only vendors that co-operate during the FEED will be short-listed on a approved suppliers list within the EPC enquiry document.
On the other hand, I have an enlightened group of suppliers keen to co-operate as they see the opportunity to design their products in early, and see these enquiries as a "heads-up". They may then take the opportunity to market / lobby directly to the client even before the EPC contract is awarded.
Other vendors have simply provided me with their rul-of-thumb costing factors to use myself.
The important thing, as mentioned above is honesty. If you can assist the sales guys with say, feedback on bids (when allowed), or tell them the true status of projects, the good guys will respond accordingly.
RE: Burning all my vendor bridges
One of them is our biggest supplier and we never got problem with them, even though they are stiff with their price. Our supply chain once set up in our company several years ago began to pick on this supplier - leaving the impression within our company that the supplier is a threat to us. Supply chain is kind of working on a higher level than me, closer to higher management. So they have got the approval to push us to develop alternatives. Several years till now, still no success simply because the current supplier is one of several companies who can possibly manufacture our products.
Another example is a potential supplier B in its developing stage. This supplier was so eager to do business with us that they run a 300 tons of steel and gave us several sample for testing - we were not obligated to buy any. The testing did not go perfectly, but within acceptance, and better than another potential supplier C which made us to commit a 100 tons min amount upfront. You know what happened afterward? I was told to update supplier B that they failed the test and they will be out of game with us because we don't have enough resource and budget test their material any more. On the other hand, we keep trying and doing business with supplier C because we are kind of in the same boat with them and got to find ways to consume the material from them. This is totally the opposite of being reasonable and made me stink with supplier B. Now I was told to contact supplier B again because we have another product needing to have backup. I know I am not supposed to but I really want to tell supplier B to ask for a min purchase amount, otherwise, our management won't take them seriously.
I really do not understand our management and wonder how they manage through so far.
RE: Burning all my vendor bridges
I had some coming to us to do on site support. They kept saying that the costs came out of their sales budget and there would be no charge.
However, I got wind of the fact that we probably wouldn't buy anywhere near as many cameras from them as they seemed to think and was concerned about this.
So for their last 2 visits I had them charge us for on site support. I think they only charged the equivalent of travel expenses though.
Sadly, our use of their cameras was even lower than I'd imagined and they still felt like they'd been taken advantage of.
I tried!
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Burning all my vendor bridges
But as I am kind of new, not very old, to the industry. I just do not understand people around me and our management sometime. Why shouldn't me be more appreciated if I help to cut down cost and risk, not increasing them. We are so arrogant and think we are controlling suppliers. But actually in nowadays suppliers talk over customers most of time. One time I just did it for fun that I found several suppliers are actually bigger companies than us. My boss was surprised to hear that.
RE: Burning all my vendor bridges
I once worked for a large company with bat wings for a logo. One of their biggest suppliers told me they mad more money on cancellation charges than production. So they focused their efforts on being the goto guys for development and high risk projects. Everyone of their quotes had two pages of fine print.
Every company and industry has a portion of projects that don't make it. The problem is that most companies don't properly bury their dead. On the new projects make a plan up front for how it will be concluded. There is an entire aspect of project management techniques that deal with this.
RE: Burning all my vendor bridges
That is exact reaction I got when another engineer wanted to have my help on the raw material portion of his project.
RE: Burning all my vendor bridges
Now that you have experienced the drop and know that it can happen again, find a way to keep your eye on the budget and the things that can influence it. Probably easier said then done. Is there someone to explain how projects get pulled and what to look for?
Maybe create a preliminary budget/contract for work not guaranteed so vendors will get paid regardless. When appropriate, say that these vendors require payment because of previous dealings with the company pulling out.
It sure does suck when the wind leaves the sails.
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