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Sales Engineers

Sales Engineers

Sales Engineers

(OP)
Hey guys,

I am looking to find a new job in the next couple of months and need some advice. One of the positions which I am looking at is with a HVAC equiptment sales company. From what I have heard (one of my friends had an intern position there before) the engineers there make very good money due to the commission. The questions I have are the following:

1) What's the differences between a sales engineer and a salesman?

2) Is it hard to get out of the sales field and find another type of engineering job 10 years down the road due to the lack of technical knowledge you would gain as a sales engineer?

3) My friend claims that sales engineers (the hard working ones) there were making around 500k in a good year and around 200k in a normal year, anyone know if this seems reasonable? I find it to be ridiculously high.

Thanks!

RE: Sales Engineers

1. Nothing. ABSOLUTELY, nothing.

2. I would venture to say yes, unless you proved to be proficient in the field that you wish to go into, 10 years down the road. This also depends on the level of technical training you receive as a salesman--err, uh, sales ENGINEER.

3. I could see those figures as being reasonable, depending on the commission involved.

V

RE: Sales Engineers

I think #2 is industry dependent.  In Oil & Gas, the producers regularly raid the sales engineers at Halliburton, Schulmberger, etc.  But, if you don't want to change companies I'd say it is nearly impossible to move out of sales.

David

RE: Sales Engineers

1. Depends on the individual and the company. All and all I wouldn't worry about the title as has been eluded to in other posts on this forum.
2. I can't answer that question with any specifc experience I have but would agree that it might be somewhat difficult to get back into "real" engineering although I wouldn't let that stop me unless I was a real tech. hound.
3. If you have any sales engineering jobs available that make between 200 - 500K U.S. dollars please post a link so I can apply.

RE: Sales Engineers

What if you are a seasoned engineer that is now a salesman? Would that make you a "Sales Engineer"?

RE: Sales Engineers

Or a 'sold out' engineer?   winky smile

(sorry, couldn't resist)

RE: Sales Engineers

Do you want to be an engineer? or a sales person?

Once you get into sales... unless it is with hopes of moving into another Engineer position in the company... it may not be a wise move.

I personally would be very insulted if my boss gave me a sales engineer title.

RE: Sales Engineers

We have employees who could be called "sales engineers".  They visit our clients on a regular basis; they offer extensive support; they know LOADS about the product and its applications.  They could almost certainly do many customers' jobs as well as the customers could ... and are often asked to do so.  Maybe it's just an engineering software thing?

So, in the context of our business:

#1 A salesman sells anything.  A sales engineer sells things he have deep knowledge in and can use the products as competently as a seasoned customer.

#2 Unusual, but not impossible.  Many sales engineers move the other way.  They get bored of the office and want to share their knowledge with customers.

#3 If anyone waved those sorts of numbers we'd lose them all!

- Steve

RE: Sales Engineers

ChrisAust,

Id sell out for those incomes - any room for a structural engineer to do that sort of work?

RE: Sales Engineers

I'm just wondering what a structural sales engineer might sell.. Brooklyn Bridges?

Seriously though, I'd rather buy a roof truss from a guy that knew how to design one than from someone who could (maybe) just read the catalogue.

RE: Sales Engineers

In my business, we sell $3-6,000,000 machines... The "Sales engineers" get a 2.5% cut...

I'd say that they make $500k a year, easy...

V

RE: Sales Engineers

$500K a year!
That's a lot of lobster dinners for your client.

RE: Sales Engineers

vc66, given the car I saw him driving I'm not sure our sales guys make that at our site!  Then again I think our tools go for less than $2,000,000 most of the time.

That money's got to be tempting.  If you're willing to sell your soul go for itwinky smile.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: Sales Engineers

Hypothetically, a "sales engineer" is supposed to have some level of technical knowledge of the product and its applications, while a salesman responds with, "I'll have to get a sales engineer to discuss that with you."

TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: Sales Engineers

How compatible are sales/marketing techniques with engineering ethics? It could get a bit murky.

RE: Sales Engineers

In my business, we sell $3-6,000,000 machines... The "Sales engineers" get a 2.5% cut...

I would be interested in knowing how many machines you sell each year? How many sales engineers does it take to sell one machines and how is that 2.5% divided up between them?

What sort of remuneration is given to 'Sales Engineers' who don't manage to sell a $multi-million machine - there must be periods when a lot of time and effort is given to preparing the sale - so the payback is good, but what about the period in-between sales?    

RE: Sales Engineers

A good 'sales engineer' knows more about the technical aspects of the product than the engineers who are specing and buying it.  A good sales engineer is part of the selection/design/implementation process of the job, and in order to be effective has to know not only the technical aspects of the equipment he is selling, but also technical aspects of the customer's application.

Good sales engineers are, of course, rare.  I have known several that have moved into consulting engineering firms, and their experience is that they know more about equipment selection and application than anybody at the consulting firms.

It wouldn't surprise me that there would be a FEW in the 500k range, but that would be market and geographically specific.

The biggest thing that sales engineers face is the lack of respect by consultants, who bill their clients at full rates, only to turn around and ask their favorite sales engineer to get the information for free.

RE: Sales Engineers

Having started my career as a sales engineer I can tell you that it doesn't lock you into anything.  Don't believe the hype about the $$$ though.  It depends heavily on your market and what you are selling.  The other big thing is longevity.  The salesmen making that kind of dough for the most part have been doing it for a long time and as others have said know their clients job better than their client does.  
You won't pop out on the streets and make a ton of cash.  Your client list will be bottom of the barrel and you will have to work your butt off to turn those clients around.  
If your goal is strict engineering, consulting or otherwise, try and get a job their first.  If you can't land that job a sales position is a great way to get in the door.  If you are good you will be constantly working with your clients, they will know you are good, and you will know when they need/want to hire someone.  If your making great money at sales you stick with it.  If not, presto you transition from the sales force to the engineering force.

RE: Sales Engineers

I had to ask a sales engineer to leave once.  He clearly did not know how to operate the (very expensive) bit of test kit he was trying to demo.

"hmm, that looks like it goes in there".  Scratches head, looks in the getting started manual.  Can't turn it on.  Can't answer any questions.

- Steve

RE: Sales Engineers

In my division there are really only a few sales engineers... maybe 5, and we sell, in a good quarter, 2-4 machines. The business is, however, very cyclic, so I'm not sure that they make that money all the time.

V

RE: Sales Engineers

A sales engineer is a sales rep. with an engineering background.  In my current job, I deal with them once or twice a week.  I must admit that most of the ones that I choose to deal with are very helpful and have a good technical understanding of their products.  And they are also usually more than happy to let me speak directly with their engineering staff if they cannot answer my questions.  I'm sure that since they are sales reps. though, they are paid a commission.

I work in aerospace and the project I'm working requires a lot of custom hardware.  And the biggest problem I run into is not with the sales rep., it's with the management of the companies that don't want to bother building my custom parts because they don't see that it is financially worth their effort.  

Of course, when business is good, they won't even return your phone calls.  But when business is slow, they're pounding down your front door.

Sad as it sounds, a mediocre salesman will always make way more money than a good engineer.   

RE: Sales Engineers

SomptinGuy,
I like your definition of a sales engineer but it is incomplete. You need to say that he is selling an engineered product else it could apply to a biscuit salesman.
The sales engineer (a good one) often does know more than his clients about the product he sells and the application it is used in. His engineering expertise may not extend much beyond that. It happens that engineers who switch to sales may make very good sales engineers when selling engineering products or services; i.e. where their morals or integrity are not called into question I'd guess they don't make good time share/holiday ownership salesmen nor realtors nor double glazing/kitchen/conservatory salesmen (and/or women).

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: Sales Engineers

I'm going to recant a bit here.
Let's consider a simple product like a new type of flow meter.
The life cycle of this product will have a bearing on the skills set of the sales team relative to the engineers they deal with.
Initially the only skills associated with this meter will be those in the R&D team who developed it and it then goes to trial. For example, in the oil industry.
This coming together of the oil industry engineer and the R&D team from the manufacturer creates a set of skills and knowledge that are then passed to the sales engineers who go and talk to other oil industry engineers.
At this point the sales engineer knows more about this flowmeter and its oil industry application that the oil industry engineer who may know a great deal more about any other flowmeter and his own applications.
As the product matures the oil industry will develop their own skills sets, industry standards etc. and will become expert in its use, often using it in applications that frighten the sales engineer. This is because the R&D team have created a fail safe set of rules for the installation and use that does not allow failure. The oil industry engineer will understand when and where he can break those rules.
As the product matures further the sales activity devlops into a situation where the oil industry engineer makes his own choices and simply orders the meter when he needs one.
Thus as time goes by the salesman and his company lose touch with there clients needs and applications. The R&D team have moved on to other projects or other companies.
The skills set required to take repeat orders is minimal.
In the end the product becomes a cash cow and then no more money is spent keeping it up to date, partly because of the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" belief and partly because of ye olde fear of cross capture... why make your own product obsolete? (the competition end up doing this).
So the average sales engineer may not be smarter than anyone.

The exceptions would have to be where there is some ongoing application of engineering skills. These days there are more and more sizing programs,  selection tools etc all designed to take out any engineering nous and replace it with monkey see monkey do type instructions on "how to".

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: Sales Engineers

Sales engineer is a TITLE to many companies and what it means in what you can expect from the bearer of said title varies greatly.

I've dealt with some who, if they were real engineers, the I would be Prince Consort to the Czarina of All the Russias.  And I've dealt with some plain ol' 'sales representatives' who were knowledgeable in their product to the nth degree and their engineer clients knew that.

Until I find out if I'm dealing with the second instead of the first, then a good maxim to keep in mind is "All salesmen are whores".

If you're contemplating a slide into a 'sales engineer' position, I'd hope you would be the second instead of the first.

old field guy

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