×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

Your Favorite SEM/EDS?
2

Your Favorite SEM/EDS?

Your Favorite SEM/EDS?

(OP)
Got a new "leader" at work, and it looks like we may finally be getting our own SEM.  It will be used primarily for met. failure analyses.  I've seen others use a few over the years, and they seem to have better features every time I look.

SO, what's your favorites, and what do I make sure we get along with it?  I have seldom if ever needed mags. of over ~1k, but I want all the DOF I can get, along with real good elemental analysis tools.

Gold is for the mistress - silver for the maid
Copper for the craftsman cunning in his trade.
"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall
But iron - cold iron is the master of them all.
Rudyard Kipling

RE: Your Favorite SEM/EDS?

Anything new from Zeiss, JEOL, FEI or Hitachi should be excellent for your work.  Consider variable pressure devices so that you can look at non-conductive samples (as well as oily or corroded metals) without having to coat them.

For elemental analysis, the new Silicon Drift Detectors don't require liquid nitrogen and can process count rates of 100,000 s-1.  They can map a surface in one minute (which would have taken an overnight run even 10 years ago).

I recommend Bruker for SDD EDS systems:

http://www.bruker-axs.de/

Regards,

Cory

Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

RE: Your Favorite SEM/EDS?

As posted above the variable pressure SEM is almost a must have in the world of failure analysis.

A local failure Analysis and engineering investigation firm has 2 of the Hitachi models with variable pressure. With the environmental chamber they do liquids/particle analysis and fibers along with about anything else. I haven't been able to work with them but have benefited from work that was done on the Hitachi.

We have a Joel, Cambridge, and a new one that I can't recall the make. The redeeming feature of the Cambridge was the very large stage, over 6". All have EDS capability.

I think that you will quickly use any capacity for magnification above 1K.

RE: Your Favorite SEM/EDS?


We use an RJLee PSEM.  It is small, inexpensive, and holds resolution to ~2500x.  This unit is more than enough for typical failure analysis (i.e. inclusion composition (EDS), fracture morph, etc.), but is in a completely different league than what it seems like others are suggesting.  Simple controls and maintenance and it is only about hlaf the size of a refrigerator.

RE: Your Favorite SEM/EDS?

(OP)
Too late!  I just called RJLee, and discovered he has sold the business and there are no more new PSEM's being sold.

They suggested a "TestScan" imported from Czech%$&*$&&kia-however it's spelled.  BIG bucks.

Gold is for the mistress - silver for the maid
Copper for the craftsman cunning in his trade.
"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall
But iron - cold iron is the master of them all.
Rudyard Kipling

RE: Your Favorite SEM/EDS?

R J Lee's SEM group was spun off as Aspex in 1995.  See here:

http://www.rjlg.com/aboutus/history4.html

Aspex is still around:

http://www.aspexcorp.com/

As is Tescan, in the Czech Republic:

http://www.aspexcorp.com/

If you need cheap, consider the new tabletop  SEM models from Hitachi and JEOL:

http://www.hitachi-hitec.com/global/em/tab/tab_index.html

http://www.jeolusa.com/PRODUCTS/ElectronOptics/ScanningElectronMicroscopesSEM/HighVacuumLowVacuum/NeoScopeBenchtopSEM/tabid/511/Default.aspx

Having said all that, if you don't need cheap, go with one of the big 4 from my first post.

Regards,

Cory

Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

RE: Your Favorite SEM/EDS?

We have an older Tescan SEM. Unless your analysis needs are very basic, I would not recommend them. You would be better off with a JEOL, Zeiss, or Hitachi system. Cory made some excellent observations in his posts.

Talking with various lab professionals who have used these systems, it is apparent that JEOL has a developed a stellar reputation for customer service. How these various manufacturers support their customers should also be a consideration in what choice you ultimately make.

Maui

RE: Your Favorite SEM/EDS?

Yes, consider customer service, as Maui suggests. When you narrow your choices down, find out how many tech service reps there are for your area and how far they have to come from to work on your equipment.

RE: Your Favorite SEM/EDS?

Just to add, 2500x is barely any magnification....

We own a JEOL 6300 SEM (c1990's), it has 300,000 as the max, though the highest Ive seen a feature at was ~25,000x.

I've only used JEOL systems (And I really like them), with LINK sytems EDS (I think Oxford Analytical)... I dont really like the user interface with LINK, but I've begun to get used to it.

nick

RE: Your Favorite SEM/EDS?

Here is an instrument, Phenom, that may fill your requirements.
As mentioned above  25,000X  is on the high end for metallography and this one will get 20,000X. Do know anything about FEI other than their website and some articles. I talked with two microscopists' neither had used FEI equipment though each was aware of it and had heard no reports of problems.

http://www.azom.com/news.asp?newsID=9021


Add this one to your wish list.

http://www.azom.com/news.asp?newsID=11768

RE: Your Favorite SEM/EDS?

I've used the Aspex units in the past and agree with the earlier posts...  The mag range we routinely used was 25X to 25,000X at steel mill.  They are certainly still around.  I think their going rate for systems is around 100-150K for SEM & EDS.  Service was good.

Hope this helps...

RE: Your Favorite SEM/EDS?

I have an ancient (in SEM years) Amray 1830 in my lab that was purchased in 1987 still meets the initial demonstration requirement in our purchase spec of 75,000X image every 4 months (our service contract has 3 P/M visits per year).  The service contract is $10K a year but given the cost of a single visit when things break, that's a bargain.  It has a large chamber (12" on a side, cube) but has a stage in it that limits the size of what I can put in it.  My only complaint is that when Amray was bought by KLA Tencor, a few years after that, KLA suddenly cancelled all service contracts and said they were getting out of the business of them.  A year later, after we had scrambled to get an aftermarket SC, they came back and said they were back in the SC business and when would we like them to show up.  Needless to say, they are still waiting.  

In my view, service is the top priority.

RE: Your Favorite SEM/EDS?

(OP)
Haven't had too much time to devote to checking out SEM's, but I think we're going to move on this soon.

I read something about a new JEOL SEM that could use some kind of Raman attachment.  I'm not real familiar with Raman.  Any comments on what it could offer for metallurgical failure analyses?

Gold is for the mistress - silver for the maid
Copper for the craftsman cunning in his trade.
"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall
But iron - cold iron is the master of them all.
Rudyard Kipling
 

RE: Your Favorite SEM/EDS?

Don't get much call for noodle-induced failures in the metallurgical field winky smile .  Seriously, if I recall correctly, Raman spectroscopy is more applicable to biological samples, isn't it?

RE: Your Favorite SEM/EDS?

So, Metalguy, how is this project progressing?

RE: Your Favorite SEM/EDS?

(OP)
So far I have 3 quotes, 2 for Hitachi's and 1 for a Jeol.

The Hitachi's are models S-3400N VP, types 1 and type 2.

The Jeol is a JSM-6490LV.

Both of the EDS's are INCA Energy 250's.

Both vendors want to come out here and meet with us soon.

The last thing I should do is get a quote for a Bruker EDS.

Thanks for all the assistance so far.  Looks like I won't get to play with these too much before I retire.

Gold is for the mistress - silver for the maid
Copper for the craftsman cunning in his trade.
"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall
But iron - cold iron is the master of them all.
Rudyard Kipling
 

RE: Your Favorite SEM/EDS?

Hi,
I work for a research materials laboratory and we are going to buy a SEM. Our choice should be between a FEI Sem and a Zeiss Evo Sem...have you ever worked with those instruments? Can you give me some opinion?

Thanks and Best regards,

Daiana M.

RE: Your Favorite SEM/EDS?

Yes, I have worked with a Zeiss EVO 50 and thought it was a good unit.  In fact, after using a JEOL 6490 over the last two months, I have to say I much prefer the Zeiss.  It is a good design mechanically and has good software.

Regards,

Cory

Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

RE: Your Favorite SEM/EDS?

Thanks for your answer..
Can you tell me something more about ZEISS? Is the microanalysis fast and functional? Did you use Oxford or Edax? The instruments we should buy is a ZEISS EVO LS15 with Oxford Microanalysis "Inca Energy 250"..
And what about FEI? Do you know anything about it?

Regards ,

Daiana M.

RE: Your Favorite SEM/EDS?

Just got back from the Lehigh Microscopy School - all sorts of really cool instruments on display.  Of the machines they had, the Hitachi instruments seemed to be the easiest to use in terms of environmental SEM capability (which I was focussed on, since my current machine can't do that).  Of course, the operation of the instrument was left in the hands of the factory engineer (they wouldn't let the class's students drive without supervison) so it may be that some of these reps were better at driving their machines than others, but on the one Hitachi SEM/Bruker EDS the Bruker engineer seemed to do just as good a job running the Hitachi as the Hitachi rep.  For the EDS systems, either Bruker or EDAX had a decent user interface, while the Thermo seemed to require a greater familiarity with the system/software - to the untrained observer it was confusing.

RE: Your Favorite SEM/EDS?

I could tell you plenty of things about the Zeiss EVO, but this is a "tips" forum, not a "complete guide to everything" forum.  If you have specific questions, I may be able to give you specific answers.

Concerning the EDS system, we used a Bruker Quantax system.  The physics is incredibly fast - 100,000 counts per second rather than the traditional 10,000 counts per second.

FEI is direct competitor to Zeiss, JEOL and Hitachi.  They have sophisticated hardware and software that can meet most needs.  You will need to make your own evaluation of things like software, training, service, cost, and delivery timing.

Regards,

Cory

Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources