Blue well water
Blue well water
(OP)
There's been one previous thread on this, but it was not dispositive, so I am trying for help. I live in Piedmont North Carolina, on a well: Unfiltered, untreated. It's been tested, none of the numbers out of whack, pH not low; but the water, when seen in a white five gallon bucket, has a distinctly blue tint; and the toilets and sink will get a blue ring around the drain and the rim, over time, that nothing, not even muriatic acid, wants to dissolve--I have to scrub it out with lavastone. I do have copper pipes; the house is 14 years old. Anyone have a clue?
Beach004
Beach004





RE: Blue well water
From memory, the previous thread was asking about water colored blue, not a blue stain on a fixture.
What is the basis for your comment regarding "none of the numbers out of whack, pH not low"? What are your comparing your water analysis to?
If you want an evaluation, why don't you post the numbers. Numbers are needed for hardness, TDS, alkalinity, and pH.
RE: Blue well water
Water softeners will remove all of the hardness, unless you bypass a portion of the flow and blend the flow back together. If one removes all of the hardness, then the softened water will tend to be more corrosive. The corrosive water will corrode the copper water pipes. So the water softener fixes one problem and creates another.
Copper piping by the way is not very resistant to corrosion.
I recall visiting a town in IL that had so much copper corrosion from the water, that the wastewater treatment plant was having a hard time meeting the discharge limit for copper. Unfortunately two different utilities were involved, a water utility and a wastewater utility. The water utility did not want to spend the money to raise the pH so the wastewater utility was having discharge permit problems.
RE: Blue well water
Hardness: 22 mg/l
Copper: 0.12 mg/l
Alkalinity: 38mg/l
pH 7.1
TDS I don't have a value for.
The lab indicated no problems with the sample. As I said, there is no water softener. My own background is as a chemist, but organic; so I'm out of my depth here.
Hope this will enable one of you to make an informed judgment.
Beach004
RE: Blue well water
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Raising the water pH will decrease the corrosivity of your water. A pH level of 8-8.5 will probably eliminate the corrosion.
The most common method to raise the pH is to use a chemical feed system and feed a sodium carbonate solution. Sodium carbonate is a mild alkali so that there are no major concerns for handling of the chemical.
http://www.water-research.net/corrosion.htm
Here is an example of a municipality adding sodium carbonate:
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In summary, if you really want to correct the problem, investigate the use of a sodium carbonate feed system to raise the water pH to 8-8.5.
RE: Blue well water
The copper number seems low, but I feel sure the sample was taken after letting the water run, so that's not a good indicator of what could be in it, when it's stood in the pipes all day or all night, I wouldn't think. My principal concern is that the corrosion will eat away my pipes entirely, which would certainly be expensive to remedy.
Thank you for the expert advice, bimr!
RE: Blue well water
I did notice there is a phone number listed at the site htt
RE: Blue well water
RE: Blue well water
RE: Blue well water
In many parts of the country, PEX is now accepted in lieu of copper tubing.
RE: Blue well water
So, I'm about 95% satisfied that the color originates in the ground, whatever it is. (The only minor unknown I have, is how that well bib works; what triggers the pump to run, when the water has not yet been through the pressure tank, under my house? Could that water somehow have been up to my house and back rather than straight from the ground?) Since the analysis doesn't indicate any hazardous materials present, and since my pipes don't leak (yet), unless anyone else has a new line of inquiry, I guess I will declare victory. Thanks to all,
Beach004
RE: Blue well water
It is possible that the copper is from the raw water, but unlikely.
Here are some sampling techniques:
http://ww
Why don't you get your well water tested for copper?
RE: Blue well water
As a one-time chemist, albeit organic, this is almost fun!
Beach004
RE: Blue well water
This Nebraska document is very comprehensive:
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Basically it states to run the cold water tap for about 2 minutes until the water sample is cold. That would indicate that the water lines have been flushed out. Then take a sample.
Wait 6 hours, and then take a sample of the water that has been motionless in the pipes.
If you go to all the trouble of sampling, I would take a sample at the well in addition to other sampling locations. As the article states, copper is rarely found to be naturally occuring.
RE: Blue well water
Next question: As a (former) chemist, is there a reliable test kit on the market that I could buy and do this testing myself? It might be less of a hassle than trying to get the Public Health folks to sample and analyze for me--the first time was pretty tedious. Besides--it could be fun!
Thanks again,
Beach004
RE: Blue well water
And pH = 7.1, combined with that, suggests a somewhat corrosive system, you said. Yes
Next question: As a (former) chemist, is there a reliable test kit on the market that I could buy and do this testing myself? It might be less of a hassle than trying to get the Public Health folks to sample and analyze for me--the first time was pretty tedious. Besides--it could be fun!
No, the amount of material that you are testing for very minute which makes testing difficult. It is not something that you can do yourself. The testing is done with a Spectrophotometer.
There are many independent labs, you do not have to go to the health department. Check the phone book.
Here is a water lab:
http:
RE: Blue well water
Beach004
RE: Blue well water
RE: Blue well water
So I'll have to get a neutralizer--replacing copper with PEX would be around $4500, doesn't make sense economically. Installing the neutralizer doesn't look like a DIY project, not in the crawl space. Good thing my stocks are doing so well, I can readily afford it...Right!
RE: Blue well water
RE: Blue well water
RE: Blue well water
I think that the problem is directly in the water source (the well in this case). Any color in water may be dangerous for healt. Blue colored water can be contaminated by cyanids. Better make a complete lab analysis and if there are still doubts, submit the problem to Enviromental Authorities.
RE: Blue well water
The chemistry of cyanide is relatively complex so it is difficult to generalize the fate of cyanide released into the environment.
The absence of iron in groundwater would indicate that cyanide is not present.
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RE: Blue well water
RE: Blue well water
Tx.
MBMarsh
RE: Blue well water
What is needed is a small chemical feed injection system to add sodium carbonate. That will raise the pH. A chemical feed system should cost less than a neutralizing filter.
A neutralizing filter should cost around $500 or so and it should take about an hour for a qualified person to install it. You can do it yourself if you are familiar with standard plumbing techniques such as soldering or crimping PEX.
If you paid $3,000, then you were a victim of an unscrupulous salesman.
RE: Blue well water
MBM
RE: Blue well water
http://www.pwgazette.com/feedsystems.htm
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www.majicwater.com/chemical_feeder.htm
RE: Blue well water
MBM
RE: Blue well water
RE: Blue well water
I'm going back and forth like a metronome on this topic. One minute I favor hiring a plumber; the next I think I'll go for the security of a known vendor who will stand behind his work. I know a good vendor; I don't (yet) know a good plumber.
RE: Blue well water
RE: Blue well water
PEX is generally less intrusive than rigid pipe and quite easy to install. It is generally easier and less intrusive for remodeling projects than rigid pipe is.
http://www.ppfahome.org/pex/pubspex.html
RE: Blue well water
RE: Blue well water
RE: Blue well water
Once the acid in that water has "eaten" all the copper it can hold, it should no longer be corrosive, I should think, and so there should be less damage. For example, if the water's acid were HCl, then reaction with oxidized copper should produce CuCl or CuCl2; but I could easily be wrong.
RE: Blue well water
I would agree that it is likely that the corrosion will diminish over time when water is standing in the tubing.
RE: Blue well water
RE: Blue well water
But anyway: The plumber just left; he examined the copper pipes, said they were thinning, but not severely; but he gave me a price for PEX throughout the house that was quite reasonable; so my thinking is, let's go that route, and avoid the tank in the garage with its maintenance, and the increased water hardness, and just get it over with.
RE: Blue well water
Note that it also stated in that book that an increase in the free chlorine residual may accelerate copper corrosion.
RE: Blue well water