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British English

British English

RE: British English

(OP)
Err, mine's somewhat tamer and less likely to get a visiting American beaten up and/or picked up by the fuzz.

- Steve

RE: British English

personally I've never used "anti-clockwise" ... would never have thought to use anything other than "counter-clockwise".

RE: British English

(OP)
The issue I always have is whether to defiantly use British English when in the US or whether to soil myself and speak American.  I'm not knocking or mocking, it's just that I feel a bit awkward at times.  I'm over there next week and debating in my own mind what to do.  Barmaids like to hear British, but then again I don't want to go hungry.

- Steve

RE: British English

I got trapped in a Tennessee tourist shop and had to be rescued simply because I was speaking British English; the girls just wouldn't let me go nor let me stop talking.... but that was in my youth and in the Dan'l Boone State Park.
Today, if rescued, I think I might be more gracious to my rescuers. Then again.....

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: British English

SomptingGuy,
Sorry, perhaps I should have put a warning or disclaimer when posting that link.

As for using English or American ... "unto thine own self be true" ... just be yourself.

cheers

RE: British English

Somptingguy,

You might as well be speaking spanish, they probably will only understand half of what you say.

I generally know three ways of saying things but here they tend to only know one.

e.g. Round trip ticket - they do not understand 'return ticket' even though the meaning seems self evident.

RE: British English

I don't understand.

RE: British English

(OP)
"Can I have a return ticket please?"

"Where to?"

"Here of course!"

I can understand the problem.

- Steve

RE: British English

"Round trip" = Start at A, goto B, return to A.

"Return trip" = the last leg of the above trip.

It is self-evident, which it why you Brits always get confused looks when you ask for a "return trip ticket".

"But how are going to get there in the first place?"

RE: British English

(OP)
We ask for a "Return ticket", not a "Return trip ticket.  But it's a bit like skim-reading.  Your brain adds the words you expect to see/hear into what's actually there.

- Steve

RE: British English

Sompting- I think you hit the nail on the head. Americans often dont listen closely to what you say they often listen for things they expect you to say.

We have a street name 3 words long, half the time we dont get to finish it before being interupted.

MintJulep,

What is round about a journey involving two (virtually)straight lines.
smile

RE: British English

I disagree with the "return" vs. "return trip" distinction.  It's not a matter of not listening to all the words, it's a matter of idiom.  "Return ticket" to me would mean "ticket used to return someplace", and the word "trip" in there wouldn't make much difference one way or t'other.  In other words, "return" only covers one leg of a journey, not two.  In your idiom, it covers both because you wouldn't return unless first you went.  Whereas we look at you funny wondering why you didn't buy your return ticket before you left, as part of a round trip.

Once again, you just can't use logic to explain language.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: British English

The part I don't understand is "they." Pronouns used with no reference to the noun they replace are meaningless.

RE: British English

In airlines terminology, a trip means start at a base, go all over the place and return to base.  A sector means go from A to B.  Got me thoroughly confused when I was working in airlines when people loosely used the term trip.

Flight numbers were something else.  If your flight was BA123G, the flight number was 123 but some people coded it with the carrier code as BA123 while others coded it as BA123G so we were a very confused lot.

RE: British English

I don't believe that one always needs an explicit noun reference for a pronoun one is using.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: British English

(OP)
"British English" is an American phrase we are forced to use to descibe English (go on, flame me, flame me, it's my thread anyway!)

- Steve

RE: British English

Once again, I wonder why it is that people keep assuming that when the English-speaking population scattered all over the world, somehow that one little island remained unchanged and "pure".

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: British English

(OP)
I should have used an emoticon to make it clear I wasn't being serious.  I thought the flame invitation was enough, but no.  HgTX, you are right.  Shame you missed the intended humour.

- Steve

RE: British English

Too many Brits seem to believe it for me to be amused.

I do like the "humour" spelling.  For the first ten years of my life, most of my exposure to written English was British kidlit, and so I had colour, humour, honour, etc.  I think it finally wore off sometime in college.  It's been creeping back in lately; I'm contemplating a wholesale return but I'm afraid it would look pretentious coming from a USAn.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: British English

What is this new fangled anti-clockwise lark? What is wrong with widdershins?

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: British English

SomptinGuy, only just had a skim through this thread. But it is, as English language arguments nearly always are, quite amusing.

I have to say that "picked up by the fuzz" sounds like it might be painfull, or do you mean "arrested by the constabulary"?

On my own trips to the USA I also had dinner held up by very cute waitresses wanting to talk more and hear the accent, even though I am from East London and not Cheltenham.
There was also a rather effeminite waiter in a restaurant near Detroit that was a "Coronation Street" fan (popular UK soap) that seemed enthralled by the Manchester location and accent.

I think all inhabitants of the USA should determine their roots and speak only the language and dialect of their forefathers and see where that gets them.
Then be grateful for the one unifying force of the English language.

Stand by for broadsides. These wooden walls and hearts of oak can take the punishment.

Bill

RE: British English

(OP)
"fuzz" is a great word to use in front of Americans.  I love the bewildered expressions it creates.

My favourite though was when walking through an English town (Brighton I think) with a visiting American colleague.  He spotted a small brass plate attached to a bin with the words "Stubber Plate" written on it.  When he asked me what it was for, there was only one possible answer: "It's for fags."

- Steve

RE: British English

Steve - 'Fag', now there's a word. I think  USA-ians will only have one meaning for that one.

It's all about context-sensitivity.

Bill

RE: British English

(OP)
Yeah, I had one of those lids pinned to the wall of my cube when I worked in America.

- Steve

RE: British English

In Australia they understand and use both meanings of the word.

RE: British English

Porky faggots, as opposed to those with a body-mass index below 28.

Bill

RE: British English

Another very good example from an american radio add for the lottery

"...I will root,root my whole family.." meaning that he will support them (or whatever) the meaning takes on a whole new meaning in other countries such as Australia and the UK.

RE: British English

My sister, working at Sears Atlanta, reported the following dialogue with a local:
"Are you from England?"
"Yes."
"What language do they speak over there?"

My nephew and niece, born and bred in LA were in dispute with their aunt whose English they were criticising (they were 8 and 10 at the time). She said "well I speak three languages, how many do you speak?"
"Two." they said with no thinking time at all.
"What languages?"
"English and American."
"What's the difference?"
"One's with an accent and one's without."
To be fair, they do seem to speak US English in the US and British English in the UK. My niece's protective colouring in the UK extends to being a Manchester United supporter and learning the names and abilities of the team and even, during the world cup, buying and wearing a Beckham shirt. In the US, she wouldn't be caught dead near a "soccer" game.

PS my favourite (favorite) Liverpudlian term is "Judy Scuff" aka woman police officer (see SomptingGuy's link at top).


JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: British English

One trip to the USA allowed me time for a little sight-seeing and I went to the Hoover Dam for the guided tour.

As part of a group of tourists, we entered one of the ornate lifts and descended into the dpths of the dam.
Getting out at the bottom, into a tunnel that reminded me of the older tunnels in the London Underground system, we were greeted by an elderly, but very tall gentlemen guide, dressed a bit like Roy Rogers, frilled shirt, bootlace tie, narrow jeans, boots, the lot.

He proceded to give us a brief run down of what we were going to see and then asked if there were any questions.

Having been impressed by the outside of the dam and the time taken for the lift to dscend, like a fool, I asked "How deep is the water on the lake side of the dam?"

To which, the guide responded "Sorry?"
I repeated the question and he said "Scuse me?"
This went on another couple of times, or so.
Finally, he caught on and said to me "Ohhh!! You mean, how deep is the water on the lake side of the dam?"

The assembled tourists seemed to have also assumed that I was from Mars, or Australia, or similar.

The water? It was about 460 feet, I think.

Bill

RE: British English

csd, very good.  Very Benny Hill. I would give you a star but innuendo should not be rewarded.  flush

 

RE: British English

WGJ

I had a similar experience recently travelling in England with my family. (We are from Australia). My 10 year old daughter was trying to buy a snack bar from a corner shop.

Daughter: "How much is this chocolate bar?"
Shop Assistant: "Can you repeat that please?"
Daughter: (More slowly this time) "How ... much ... is ... this ... cho-co-late ... bar?"
Assistant: "Can you say that again?"
Daughter and Assistant carried on in this way for a couple of exchanges. I butted in to try to act as interpret, at which the Assistant replied:

"That's okay, I got it the first time - I just like hearing you Aussies speak!"

(We were in the West Country - Somerset I think - the local accent there is so thick you can cut it with a knife. We were enjoying listening to THEIR accents!)

RE: British English

Ooo arrr. They be diff'rent down there all right.

Bill

RE: British English

Ee be up yon wurzel tree and I be after ee. Ee sees I, I sees ee, buggered if I don't get urn, wiv a gurt big stick I'll knock ee down,

Yes, I spent many years in Zummerzet. Nowadays I sound like a Jeremy Irons clone (and look like an Alexei Sayle clone).

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: British English

My daughter, when she was 12 and had spent most of her life in Australia, had just started school in Florida.  She asked a boy in the next seat if she could borrow his rubber, and couldn't understand why he turned red.

RE: British English

(OP)
I've heard many times that Durex is/was a brand of adhesive tape in Australia (a.k.a Sellotape in the UK), with the obvious hilarious consequences for Aussie travellers.  Might be an urban myth though.

- Steve

RE: British English

Hey, as long as none of you are as unintelligible as Brad Pitt in Snatch, you should be understood.  Then again, Brad Pitt may have played it up a little bit in "Snatch" and the dialect isn't that unintelligible.

All I know is not to mess with men selling dags and caravans interested in bare knuckle boxing.

RE: British English

jawannabayadag?

Bill

RE: British English

Brad Pit was trying to be a pikey.  Not a classic Brit accent.  Technically probably not a British accent at all but Irish.

When I first came to the states I had to work in retail for a while.  Pretty much forced me to lose my accent as no one could ever understand me.

They all thought I came from Aus too, nether realized my hybrid Hampshire/Cockney accent sounded antipodean.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: British English

Pikey - you're going to have to explain that one for the benefit of anyone that has never experienced the culture of the pikey/gypo/'traveller' community in the UK.

It's not really Irish as suych, you know. It is, culturally, Pikey.

Bill

RE: British English

WGJ, I wasn't going to touch that with the proverbial but...

True Gypsy or technically Romany/Romani originate in India I believe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people My brother in law is half Romany/Romani and taught me a little about them.

Travellers are basically bands of hippies and new age wannabes pretending to be Gypsies.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Age_Travellers

Pikeys, as played by Brad, are of Irish decent (more or less) see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers .  Typically associated with horse trading etc.

Amusingly/Interestingly (though maybe not), my family though not from any of these 3 groups has a long history of bare knuckle boxing, as demonstrated by Brad, back in the day!

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: British English

My favourite Americanism for the Police is Po-Po.

Back in the UK I thought 'the filth' was a bit harsh on our boys in blue.  In the US though, it's a bit more fitting, at least with our local plod.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: British English

Good morning Kenat - apologies if I caused you any offence, but (WRT your Wikip refs) I think the pikey/gypsy/traveller population of today is veering away from the straightforward scrap dealers/tarmacers/tinker types of yesteryear.
Certainly, in my part of the UK (south Essex), they're so-called travellers until they have enough untaxed cash to buy land and then they want to build a house on it.
Recently, numerous losses of telephone and railway cabling have been linked to what can onlt be descibed as a pikey village, together with air-rifle assaults on road workers and the death of a woman driver that had stones thrown at her on the local trunk road.
These people aren't romantic wanderers, they're just common fugitives from the law.

Bill

RE: British English

"pikey village" - another example of Brit English?
Would you care to enlighten us?

RE: British English

It's confusing if you haven't experienced these people.

They style themselves as part of the 'traveller community', see this link for some basic info: http://www.travellerslaw.org.uk/issues.htm

...but a lot of them don't seem to have the historic moral and law-abiding principles of historic 'travellers'.
Have a look at KENAT's links a couple of posts ago for more info.
These days, a lot of 'travellers' just seem to be people that want to avoid the law, the taxman and authority in general, but still want to benefit from free healthcare, schooling and have a political voice.

Historically, 'travellers' of whatever gypsy denomination travelled, surprise, suprise, using caravans or trailers as I believe they're called in the USA.
Cash-in hand work, collecting scrap metal, stuff like that. No tax, no National Insurance (social security?)

Nowdays, they seem to want to buy land and build without regard to all land use regs (zoning) or building regulations, have their kids attend school on a regular basis, have access to free healthcare and the fire and ambulance services (not the police, though, generally) and still live outside the rules that everyone else abides by.
Here's alink to my local paper: http://www.echo-news.co.uk/search/index.php plenty there to read on the matter.

So a 'pikey village' is an illegal development on land not zoned for building, housing people that style themselves as 'travellers' or claim some other connection with gypsy peoples. Derogatory.

Bill

RE: British English

(OP)
For more information on gypsies, do a google search using the terms "viz" and "gypsy".  It caused quite a stir.

- Steve

RE: British English

WGJ, no offense taken, it would take more than that to get through this thick hide.

I'm no fan of Travellors. For our US friends imagine the worst redneck/trailor trash you can think of, make their trailers actually mobile and make a few of them hippies and there you go.  Maybe not 100% all the time but generally.  Having been attacked by their dogs I really have no love for them.

A Pikey village will generally be over run with semi wild, dogs that are inclined to attack any new comers.  Fortunately most of the dogs are usually a bit sorry for themselves and not to be too large a lot of Whippets or Grey hounds.  Not like the trailor trash dog of choice in my part of the US, a nice Pit Bull to keep the Po Po away from the meth lab.

True Pikeys probably fall somewhere in the lovable rogue/"character" category.  However, you don't want to get on their wrong side.

True Romani, while like any group not all perfect, tend to get a bad rep due to being lumped in with the other 2 groups.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: British English

Also Diddycoy:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=diddycoy

Re the dogs:  also lurchers, a sort of bittser dog used for illegal hunting.

The local government and police are often impotent in the face of the "travelling people" but pretty effective against any local landowners who might take the law into their own hands

A good sign of a visitation by such bands is where berms have been raised around common land, or other areas which have previously been camped on. The sites of previous camps recently vacated can be located by triangulating from stolen and burned out cars and the site itself will be a mass of debris.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: British English

Here's an illegal pikey village:
Google Earth
55º 35' 41.84" N
0º  28' 25.44" E

Zoom in to see all the white vans and the white rooves of their caravans, along with all the concrete bases and illegaly built structures.

Bill

RE: British English

(OP)
I tried Bill, but all I got was North sea,  the land finished at about 1deg40min.

My local (don't know if legal or not) pikey village is at:

50, 50, 23 N
00, 18, 06 S

(Right next to a notoroius place where "gentlemen" meet to search in the bushes for their keys/dogs/etc.)

- Steve

RE: British English

Diddycoy, there's a nice term I haven't heard in a while.

Lurchers, forgot about them.

As for your other comments JMW, too true.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: British English

A field near Rickey?  The pointer was quite close to a bush as well.  Couldn't spot any 'Gentlemen' though.

We dont seem to have any at the moment, the council have been moving them on. However, this layby is a favourite.

57 08'26.65" N, 2 20'07.01" W.

There are some van shaped vehicles in the picture...

RE: British English

(OP)
50,43,54,50
02,24,07,00

Is where my wife always used to want to stop to eat our sandwiches.  She'd drag my daughter off into the loo there, leaving me alone, twiddling my fingers in an otherwise empty car.

Don't go there!

- Steve

RE: British English

I actually think we have Irish Travellers in the U.S. up toward the Eastern seaboard of the country.  I seem to remember some news magazine putting out all kinds of stink about them and how they'd blow into town and then go around the area doing shoddy handyman type work and then disappear overnight when they'd start sensing the locals turning on them.

I don't, however, recall ever seeing a very handsome man selling dags, caravans, or getting into a bare knuckle boxing match.

RE: British English

Ussuri - are you Billericay Dickie of legend?

The place is Crays Hill, Wickford.

Bill

RE: British English

What fcsuper?

Lorry and loo, not lory & lou.

And why would the po po be burglarizing my tighty wighties while I'm in the can?  

(I know that's not correct use of burglarizing but it's the best I could come up with)

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: British English

Gertcha = please evacuate the vicinity

Bill

RE: British English

WGJ, Not that I am aware off.  I have never been much of a bricklayer and I have never been to Essex.

RE: British English

Some years ago, while seconded to the US Air Force. I was in one office and found myself in need of a item of stationary. Proceeding into the next office, packed wall to wall with typists etc, of the female persuasion. Asked in beautifully enunceated RAF English. 'Does anyone have a rubber I could borrow'
You could hear the wind blowing, in the silence that descended. Then a lady of mature years, came forward holding the requested item, and said, ' I think you want one of these dear'.
It was not until I got back to my office and said what had happened, that the reason was explained, after they all finished rolling around on the floor howling with laughter.

RE: British English

Back on topic ... sort-of;

How many of you use the term "handed" or "handed parts" when describing or speaking of parts which have left or right hand versions?

cheers

RE: British English

(OP)
You mean like "left handed scissors"?  I would say most Brits.

- Steve

RE: British English

CBL me, how else would you describe itwinky smile.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: British English

Surprising how many sexed and handed items there are from scissors (L and H) bicycles (M, F and trail)
Guns (automatic or self-loading) which seem exclusively for right handed people (and some revolvers with the loading gate on one side only) and so on. Of course, screws are male and come L and R threaded and nuts are female and come L and R threaded..... but at least engineers don't come it all highbrow and refer to sinister and dexter or lavo and, and .... and what? Bother. Google needed.

By the way "rubber" and to "rub out" go quite well together though one presumably comes from Rubber (the rubber plant) and the other from "to rub" (but why was it called the "rubber tree"?)
An eraser and to erase (UK spelling, sorry, I assume that should be with a "z" as it is an American term. Tough.) I guess the tree ought then to be an "eraser tree" and car tyres would be made from eraser (though not any more).
But why isn't that essential aid to a good night out called an eraser, if only for consistency?

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: British English

Nice link HgTX for us lazy ones and interesting that the 1788 quotation apparently uses the word eraser (with an s).
BUT was the original written in French?  and does it depend when this translation was made and how one would normally translate the original French word?
Just idle curiosity and not worth a google I guess.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: British English

Sorry, I should have included a reason for asking. In the SolidWorks forum someone someone asked, "Just wondering how others handle handed parts and assemblys in Solidworks".

A couple of responses were, "Handed part?"
and "Curious, where does the term 'handed' parts come from?".
I was surprised that some people were not aware of the use of the term in respect to left and right hand parts.

cheers

RE: British English

I know "handedness" as a property, but not "handed" the adjective without some kind of prefix.  Couldn't tell you why the one but not the other.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: British English

HgTx,

You do sometimes see things described as just "handed parts" - meaning that these are available in both left-hand and right-hand form, so be careful you order the correct variant.

Also seen the term "opposite hand" used in a drawing system where it's conventional to draw only the right-hand version of a detail part, but to note that the aircraft also uses the opposite hand component, so you will need to make one of them too.

A.

RE: British English

Chirality.  

There's your ten dollar word for "handedness".

RE: British English

Is there something sinister in this or are you truly dextrous with an on-line resource?

Bill

RE: British English

>RIMSHOT<

RE: British English

Ten dollar word? Don't be chirlish!
(OK, so it should be a "u")

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

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