Question about work environment
Question about work environment
(OP)
I have an awkward situation at my job. I worked on a project a couple months ago. I had some problems with it, meaning it took me longer than it should have and we were at budget. There was also another project where I was working with another engineer and we were close to budget (for reasons I won't go into but was not entirely my fault). Anyways, we had a meeting with me another engineer, the company principal, and the head office engineer. The head office engineer said in the meeting that he had "lost patience with me" and that's why he's not working with me anymore. Since then (actually, since before that) he has not spoken to me. It's awkward, especially since we have a small open office with 6 engineers. There may have been some work problems, but I don't think it's right for him to act like that. I feel weird. when new projects come in, he asks others what they are working on and if they can take on the new project, except for me. He hasn't asked me, so I'm currently working with another engineer; helping him on his projects. I'm uncomfortable there, and am debating whether or not to send him an email asking him to meet after work to speak about our situation.
Does anyone have any comments on this situation.
Thanks
Does anyone have any comments on this situation.
Thanks





RE: Question about work environment
1. Update my resume and start job hunting immediately
2. Speak to the guys supervisor and make him aware of the situation and pray he does not condone the behavior
RE: Question about work environment
I think the grievances need to be aired, and worked out. You should be the bigger person, and say that you don't want the work relationship to continue like this. Meet with him, and try to work things out.
Failing that... If this person can make you feel that bad at work, then you shouldn't work there anymore.
V
RE: Question about work environment
Leave thoughts of moving until after hours.
Your manager is being immature about this, maybe he realises that he underquoted on those projects.
RE: Question about work environment
Never, but never question engineer's judgement
RE: Question about work environment
Focus on doing your work well, properly, and timely, and look for another position elsewhere. But do not badmouth anybody, because the world is a small place.
Life is too short to work in an environment like that.
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RE: Question about work environment
RE: Question about work environment
If this does work out then dont get mad just get even. Make sure you maintain the demeanor of a consumate professional until the moment that you hand in your notice.
RE: Question about work environment
Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 2.0
AutoCAD 06/08
ctopher's home (updated 10-07-07)
RE: Question about work environment
Hg
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RE: Question about work environment
RE: Question about work environment
If you need to use email to schedule the meeting make sure the principal is CC'd on everything. Keep the email short. The email is not where the problem will be fixed but in the discussions that follow.
RE: Question about work environment
Meet the guy by the coffee machine or go to his cubicle.
E-mail is like trying to keep away from physical contact. It suggests you are nervous of him.
Communication is always best face to face and verbal and don't forget it is also very visual.
But, by going face to face you also put him at a disadvantage. You are the one making the first move and he must react to that. He, having said his piece may actually mean it and is waiting for you to go or he had just been reamed out and was lashing out. Maybe on reflection he recognises he has been unfair but he doesn't have an exit; a face saving way out and, as senior, he may feel that he would lose some authority approaching you.
You're going to him openly and calmly may be all you need to do.
Think about the various attitudes that could be assumed and feel for the best.
You could be going to him upset, aggressive and ready to slug it out verbally. You could be going to him looking for him to use his management and mentoring skills.
Appologetic? deferential? what will put him at ease or at a disadvantage?
Don't ask what the problem is, he will bluster. Tell him yo've been thinking and would appreciate if he could show you he thinks you went wrong and perhaps he wouldn't mind showing you how to do it better. Play to his ego.
Don't spend to much time at it unless you start to get some positive results.
If you are not satisfied with his response, say so and say why. Say that he is in charge and you expect him to provide you with a professional evaluation and assistance to perform better.
If you don't get satisfaction then advise him that you feel you must take the issue further and will get some advice on your next steps. This should make him concerned as to what those steps are.
Go to HR, but do so initially in an "off the record" mode asking them for advice on how to handle the matter explaining that you feel he is upset but has refused to explain nor given any better management of you as you would have expected if he is unhappy with your work. Be sure to tell them what steps you have taken.
Try not to make this your problem but try to make it appear to be his problem in that he has reacted against you and is not acting as you would expect a manger to act toward a subordinate.
HR ought to appreciate the of the record approach and you will probably get a sympathetic hearing if you are simply seeking help and advice and if you do not appear to be critical of him. Plenty of time for that later.
If it doesn't improve the situation then you can consider going on the record which will involve, and should in any case, keeping a note book/diary.
But please, not an email. The personal touch.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Question about work environment
To try and be proactive in the current job I'd probably try and speak face to face rather than email as others have said. Email can be great for leaving a virtual paper trail to cover your proverbial, however in this situation I don't think it should be your first choice.
Ask him what you can do to improve yourself/regain his confidence however you word it, more or less as JMW put above. Make sure and get specifics if it's to be of any help to either of you.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Question about work environment
I did speak face to face Friday after work. I got the feeling that he is not a big fan of me, but did say that it is his responsibility to help me in the office environment. He said,"I don't have to like you out of here, but here, I'm here for you." I did ask him what I can do to improve he gave me a little feedback. He told me the office was for thick skinned people and that I was told that on the interview, which I was. I'm going to try and push through it and see what happens. Thanks all
RE: Question about work environment
I had a boss like that, after a mass exodus began, and during the exit interview with HR, one of the guys said the reason he was leaving was because of the boss.
His bosses had a heart to heart, and phone call with the guy that left.
The boss changed his behavior, but it is hard for him not to go back to his old ways, when things get tense, he reverts.
That was a big company, with a lot of check and balances.
RE: Question about work environment
Be interesting to see if he is himself thick skinned....but wait till you have alternative employment lined up before you try it.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Question about work environment
RE: Question about work environment
He has not answered you properly. If he has no problem with you, why does he not want to work with you ... for the time being?
How is he there for you?
At the very least you should expect him to be more involved with your work, not less. He should be taking a more hands on approach which would involve him making an effort to provide you with closer supervision so that he can help you identify your problems and remedy them.
A log book/diary is appropriate to record incidents and comments. Often, when a situation matures into a confrontation in front of management or HR, your recollection of isolated incidents and subjective comments can seem trivial, especially in the face of an assured and strong denial by someone who will undoubtedly then claim to be fair and who will then probably accuse you of having "personal problems" or problems interacting with people etc.
It also occurs to wonder if this is an isolated incident. You could try talking to some of your fellow workers, especially those who have been there for some length of time to ask what they think about his attitude to you and also to ask what they think went wrong with the previous projects that he has got in such a state about it. If you can't get serious engineering related advice from him, try for it from your colleagues.
[quote]Hopefully, he will come around sooner or later.]/quote]
You say you were at budget on one and close to budget on another. Budget over-runs are not unusual and thus one has to question if perhaps the problem is that before the projects completed he had been making claims to senior management that these would be brought in "well under-budget". Also not to be over-looked is that he made his comments, not in private to you but in a meeting where he has done the maximum damage to you.
This is not, in my opinion, professional. Indeed, it smels to me like "scape-goating". He isn't going to come round.
The question is, what is your work environment like now? How much is this affecting you?
How is it likely to affect your career prospects?
At some point you may need to approach HR to get the work situation resolved. You may need to take some legal advice.
I suggest that you take some time and write up a detailed account of the incident at the meeting and of the two projects. You may also try and get some comment from others.
What you have to face is the prospect that the work environment may bring with it some health issues as you are now under sustained stress and you also have to be careful about how the worry affects home life. Also, you need to ask what is this doing to your career prospects both within this company and when you try to move on.
Then too, you only know what he has said to you in the meeting, you do not know what he has said to the management nor what is now in your personnel file.
Don't take this too lightly, don't simply assume that it is a case of working extra hard to prove yourself, it may be that this is a wasted effort if he is being unfair. If you think he was unfair then it isn't your engineering and being a better engineer isn't going to help.
Sanity check: talk with your co-workers in a relaxed off-site environment, talk to them individually and see from the first discussion if you can establish what is gong on.
Some times "bullies" get away with it because they can. They may often pick on new employees because they are less sure of themselves and don't know what to expect.
However, if you discover the criticisms valid, if your co-workers will tell you you messed up, then learn from it. Still, if that is the case then it is for your "mentor" to help you bring your standards up to expectation. Ultimately that is for the head engineer, it is his team and he is answerable for its quality and performance.
It may be that there have been a succession of people who have joined, been scape-goated and left with a stain on their reputation. If so, and if it gets nasty, you might need to talk with some of them. You were employed as a replacement? or as part of expansion? i.e. did you replace someone and why did they go (always a question during interviews).
In any event, get that CV out there and look for a new job. You may need a refuge...
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Question about work environment
Unless you need this job to put food in your kid's mouths, leave now - life is too short.
The guy sounds like an A-hole.
tg
RE: Question about work environment
RE: Question about work environment
I second the comment that these sorts of matters are best handled face to face with a third person also present. Also, tune up your resume and start putting out some feelers because he may just be a crappy boss.
RE: Question about work environment
Always keep a backdoor open and look for other work. At least you are doing everything your can, you never know what may turn up, but keep it to yourself. How may year's experience do you have? Are you mobile?
In a small environment like that he sounds manipulative, unfair and probably a borderline personality. He sounds like he will rewrite history too, a stalinist revisionist, confusing you. Essentially, you don't want to spend your time looking over your shoulders, worrying about his moods, looking for approval or playing the pecking order game. It is not healthy. This situation is more common than most people will admit.
If you can't have a different boss, go for the open road, there is a lot of opportunity out there.
Robert Mote
www.motagg.com
RE: Question about work environment
I did speak to him a couple days after I started the thread. It's been better. He seems more willing to help me now. A couple times I think I asked too many questions and he got a little irritated. But I still feel very nervous about making a mistake. I'm not sure if it's me or if I'm intimated/fearful of making a mistake. I've gotten so nervous that I've made silly mistakes like instead of using 40 psf for the uplift of a canopy I used 75 psf. I couldn't figure out why my moment at the base of the canopy was so high, so I asked him. He told me I was confusing him and then he noticed I was using gravity load instead of uplift load. I felt so stupid because these kinds of mistakes are uncharacteristic of me. I guess I need to learn to relax a bit more, but I was still considering leaving/looking for another job just for the sake of what rtmote said: it's not healthy. Just wanted to update everyone in case this can help someone some day.
RE: Question about work environment
I was in a similar situation in my first year in the job, back in 1989.
I had gotten so tense and nervous, that I was not able to perform the functions of an engineer, all because of the relationship with my supervisor.
I decided 6 months into the job that I would quit, and worked for 6 more months (I'm not sure why).
I was so unhappy, that my mindset was:
If I spend the rest of my life in the gutter, quitting will still have been the right decision.
I then was out of work for approx. 3 months, but I was young and no kids or rent to pay.
I then got a job at a great small firm, with a much more respectful, trusting boss. I worked there for 7 yrs, very hard, but very happy. And get this: NO sunday night stomach ache! This is what working is supposed to be like.
I won't bore you with the next few years' details, but suffice it to say I am now part owner of a consulting engineering firm, with what I believe is a good reputation.
By the way, I ran into my former "supervisor" approx. 6 yrs after quitting, and get this - he apologized to me for having been such a jerk - he attributed it to stress, etc. He also said he had seen great potential in me.
Newsflash - I now supervise young engineers and designers and I am very stressed as well - but I do NOT treat them with disrespect.
I still think the guy was an A-hole - even after the apology.
You need to leave this job.
tg
RE: Question about work environment
RE: Question about work environment
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RE: Question about work environment
Hg
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RE: Question about work environment
That he is now starting to talk to you isn't actually taking you in the right direction.
All that is happening is that you are starting to justify his original perception and you have to ask if it is telling you something about this guy's style.
If you can't find a way out of this, and you must recognise that so far, even though he now appears to be trying to be helpful, he is actually making things worse, you have to ask where it is going to end.
Logically your performance may continue to deteriorate, and your health, and you will end up fully justifying his original position.
Then what happens? he will let you go and you will have some tough interviews to come and he may permanently affect your confidence and your future career.
You need to solve this problem before it gets that far. It doesn't look like there is a solution with this guy or maybe even with this company.
I'd say you either look for a position with another company that lets you do what you want to do or you commit to a few more years at your old employer until you get your confidence back.
But in reality I'd guess you may be going back under more favourable terms and certainly you will be working in a more conducive environment.
But don't assume it is just going to be your old job. Talk seriously with them and see what they have to offer you. You might be surprised by what they can offer you to make it interesting enough for you to go back to them and you lose nothing by talking.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Question about work environment
RE: Question about work environment
RE: Question about work environment
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Question about work environment
Be sure not to complain about the current scenario. These are private, personal and great learning curves. Analysing and dissecting with people not knowledgeable with the dynamics, is a waste of time and people start to think you are part of the problem too.
This situation is far more common than most people realise. Keep the knowledge in your eyes and observe. You will encounter again.
Robert Mote
www.motagg.com
RE: Question about work environment
Thanks
RE: Question about work environment
Robert Mote
www.motagg.com
RE: Question about work environment
You say that you have money troubles; was that self-induced or an act of nature? If the former, then changing jobs will simply postpone the reckoning; Walt Kelly's Pogo summed it up with, "We have met the enemy, and they are us."
TTFN
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RE: Question about work environment
RE: Question about work environment
TTFN
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RE: Question about work environment
1. Apparently, there have been several incidents that did or could have led to the current situtation. Try to look back, very critically, at your own performance. I'm not saying you did anything wrong, and I'm not saying the other guy's right, just saying you do need to look at your own performance critically.
2. What I find wromg with the other guy's behavior are the following:
(a) I believe in the principle of providing praise in publicm and critism in private. His public critism of you just makes things worse for all.
(b) if your performance is really inadequate to the point he won't send you work, then he should have the guts and integrity to put it in writing, and urge you to resign or be fired.
The ONLY POSSIBLE, SEMI-legitimate motive I can see in his behavior (and this is a stretch), is does he want you to quit on your own, so he doesn't have to start a negative personnel action?
RE: Question about work environment