PE Stamping Cost
PE Stamping Cost
(OP)
guys, got a pricing question about additional charge if I am asked to stamp the calculation and drawings for connection design.
I didn't stamp them before and only submit calcs. for others to stamping (EOR). Now they want me to stamp it. What price diff. does it make on an hourly rate basis? (I know I should cover insurance and add'l hours...but is there a typical industry rate diff. btw. stamping vs. non-stamping?)
Please be specific if you can...thanks.
Koo
I didn't stamp them before and only submit calcs. for others to stamping (EOR). Now they want me to stamp it. What price diff. does it make on an hourly rate basis? (I know I should cover insurance and add'l hours...but is there a typical industry rate diff. btw. stamping vs. non-stamping?)
Please be specific if you can...thanks.
Koo






RE: PE Stamping Cost
Discuss!
RE: PE Stamping Cost
Joe Tank
RE: PE Stamping Cost
RE: PE Stamping Cost
I assume it will always need a stamp and charge accordingly.
RE: PE Stamping Cost
RE: PE Stamping Cost
Here's an analogy for you steel guys - when you order steel and require certain certifications be provided with the material, you pay more. The steel is the exact same, with or without the certs. This applies with engineering calcs as well - if you don't want me to seal the work, I'll give you a price break.
RE: PE Stamping Cost
RE: PE Stamping Cost
Look, for the vast majority of all engineering work (including most of the stuff I do), I fully expect I'll have to sign and seal my work - I base my price accordingly. There is a market, however, where PE approval is not required - typically in the residential sector. As an example, I will provide HVAC load calculations and energy forms to mech contractors/home owners for a much reduced price over what I'd charge in a commercial setting where a PE seal would be required. I'm still making money (albeit at a reduced rate), it has attracted more business for the company, and the home owner saves money - where's the problem in this practice?
Another example - I used to do a lot of pressure vessel design work (when I didn't work for myself). All of the vessels I designed were built to the ASME B&PV code. If a client asked for a PE to verify the design (and sign/seal the design documents), the company would charge considerably more. The vessel was the same, as was the designer (me) - why do you think the company charged more? Because the PE seal has a tangible value.
RE: PE Stamping Cost
RE: PE Stamping Cost
RE: PE Stamping Cost
Mike McCann
McCann Engineering
RE: PE Stamping Cost
All the states I am licensed in precribe that all final engineering plans, drawings, reports, etc. constituting the practice of engineering shall be stamped by the PE in responsible charge. There are exemptions to what actually constitutes the practice of engineering, of course, but it does not sound to me like the OP meets these exemptions.
I would seriously consider stamping the drawings and I would definitely not have "extra fees" for stamped drawings. If you are in responsible charge of the work, you are liable and responsible for the work whether you stamped it or not; the fee should reflect the full degree of responsibility and liability
RE: PE Stamping Cost
Is this common for other firms?
The ability to bid a project seems like it should be compensation enough. It makes the specialty engineer stand behind his/her work. I would be very worried letting someone else design a piece of my (EOR) building and have them not be willing to put their stamp on it.
RE: PE Stamping Cost
RE: PE Stamping Cost
RE: PE Stamping Cost
Doing the work and expecting the EOR to seal it may not be allowed under the "direct supervision" requirements of your state rules- check and see. It could vary with the rules and with the actual arrangement of work.
Texas currently has a rule that if a registered engineer is doing work that is exempt, then a seal is also not required on that work. I think this was understood a long time before it was put in the rules, more so with engineers working in exempt industries than with consultants doing small jobs.
RE: PE Stamping Cost
If someone does work for a client as a professional engineer, and then upon completing that work for an agreed price, he asks for additional money to "stamp" the work, to me that is tantamount to extortion.
RE: PE Stamping Cost
but no, you should not charge an extra $500 just to stamp a report that was already written and billed for.
RE: PE Stamping Cost
That being said, I bet it doesn't matter whether you stamp it or not, you are at the same risk of losing your license and/or having the same amount of court fees whether it is stamped or not. Everyone will likely come after you the same either way. If that is the case, I wouldn't charge more just based on the fact that it is worth more to the client being stamped rather than unstamped, seems kind of like you are being an a-hole.
RE: PE Stamping Cost
Mike McCann
McCann Engineering
RE: PE Stamping Cost
On the other hand, I have told people that I could not stamp the calculations, as they were part of the overall design, and the EOR of the overall design should stamp the design to ensure conformance to the overall design concept. Generally the reason I did not stamp it was because of that. I have seen engineers who try toget everybody to stamp their piece and then bind it all up. Often they have very little that they have their stamp on. If there is a problem, then you end up with a lot of finger pointing, that stamping was to avoid.
I agree we should have one standard for our work, but a stamp should be sure that the work is compatible with the total design concept.
RE: PE Stamping Cost
RE: PE Stamping Cost
In an ideal world it wouldn't be necessary to turn in sealed calculations, but then again, in an ideal world we shouldn't have to have licenses. We could take people at their word that they are competent. Obviously that isn't the case.
RE: PE Stamping Cost
A further thought, the issue here appears to be the stamp, assuming more liability with it, and being paid more for it. The real liability here is any monetary compensation paid by the client and his reliance on your professional work, stamped or unstamped.
Personally, I like the idea of wet stamping prints and calculations, as it quickly weeds out stamp forgeries, which has happened to me personally three times in the last 20 years.
Mike McCann
McCann Engineering
RE: PE Stamping Cost
RE: PE Stamping Cost
Since Texas prohibits stamping work which was not done by you or under your supervision, you stamp your own work.
Also, as said previously, Texas also requires that work be stamped if it is engineering.
I have also had numerous discussions online and IRL about engineers not pricing for the value they provide. If we "discount" our fees for not stamping, then people see the value of our knowledge, skills & experience as less than the value of our seals.
Charge what you are worth, all the time, and stand behind it, seal or not.
RE: PE Stamping Cost
I do the same calc package reagardless of submittal requirements. Often times I am required to submit the package sealed. No problem here it is. Maybe my take is a little different having a boss who does review for the State Board.
RE: PE Stamping Cost
RE: PE Stamping Cost
Mike McCann
McCann Engineering
RE: PE Stamping Cost
RE: PE Stamping Cost
If the answer is "Yes," then that is an additional service, "shop drawing review," and you should be compensated accordingly. It is one thing to provide a design. It is an entirely different task to review someone else's work and verify their interpretation is correct.
(This begs another question, should engineers of record require sealed connection design, or sealed shop drawings, or both. That discussion would likely drag on longer than this one has.)
If you're doing connection design, and submitting calculations, I don't see much difference price-wise or effort-wise if you seal them or not.
RE: PE Stamping Cost