Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
(OP)
Just thought I would share this little nugget...
Been working my current job for a little over 2 years now. The "recommended" hours were 7:45-4:30 (45 min lunch). My boss typically arrives around 7:30 AM and leaves around 6:00-7:30 P.M.
My first year, I lived about 45 min - 1hr away. At first, I would arrive around 7:45 and leave around 4:30-5:00. After awhile though, I got lazy and started to arrive around 8:15-9:45, but I would still would leave around 5:00-6:30. It was kind of easier to get work done since it was a little quieter after hours.
Probably a bad idea eh?
Just the opposite. My boss and other upper level employees started to compliment me on my "extra effort" saying how my staying late really "Showed my dedication", especially compared to those employees that worked 6:45-3:30 that were considered "lazy".
My boss also liked to really get his hands dirty after normal hours at work, since that is the only time he is free. Although he's a manager, he really seems to enjoy doing a lot of the design engineer tasks that were meant for. In fact, he told me on several occasions how lucky I am because I get to work on all the "fun stuff" while all he gets to do is the dull management stuff. Kind of seems like a severe micromanager to me, but that's for another day.
Well, last summer, I finally got a place closer to work; less than 5 minutes in fact. I actually started showing up to work a little early than most people (7:30) and leaving a little later than most (5:00).
This is where it get interesting. At my most recent review, my boss told me my "effort has declined" and that I really should put more time into the job.
The funny thing is I've always worked a min of 40 hrs/week and most of the time more than that. I just think my boss only seems to notice when I'm here later in the day. My output of work if anything has improved since my knowledge has increased.
Should I:
1. Keep working the 7:30-5:00 and hope things improve?
2. Start coming in later again and try doing the "midnight oil" strategy?
3. Start working 7:30-7:30 so everyone notices I'm here? (just kidding on this one. I know if I asked my boss what time I should work this would be his response :P)
Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated too. I really don't mind working later these days either because there isn't much to do RIGHT after work Mon-Thurs.
Also, just to compare, the other 9 salaried employees in my department hours go like this:
3 work 6:45 - 3:30 (are considered "lazy")
2 work 7:45 - 4:30
2 work 8:15 - 5:00
1 works 9:15 - 6:00 (boss started complaining to him as of late)
1 works unusual hours since he's getting his BSME right now
Been working my current job for a little over 2 years now. The "recommended" hours were 7:45-4:30 (45 min lunch). My boss typically arrives around 7:30 AM and leaves around 6:00-7:30 P.M.
My first year, I lived about 45 min - 1hr away. At first, I would arrive around 7:45 and leave around 4:30-5:00. After awhile though, I got lazy and started to arrive around 8:15-9:45, but I would still would leave around 5:00-6:30. It was kind of easier to get work done since it was a little quieter after hours.
Probably a bad idea eh?
Just the opposite. My boss and other upper level employees started to compliment me on my "extra effort" saying how my staying late really "Showed my dedication", especially compared to those employees that worked 6:45-3:30 that were considered "lazy".
My boss also liked to really get his hands dirty after normal hours at work, since that is the only time he is free. Although he's a manager, he really seems to enjoy doing a lot of the design engineer tasks that were meant for. In fact, he told me on several occasions how lucky I am because I get to work on all the "fun stuff" while all he gets to do is the dull management stuff. Kind of seems like a severe micromanager to me, but that's for another day.
Well, last summer, I finally got a place closer to work; less than 5 minutes in fact. I actually started showing up to work a little early than most people (7:30) and leaving a little later than most (5:00).
This is where it get interesting. At my most recent review, my boss told me my "effort has declined" and that I really should put more time into the job.
The funny thing is I've always worked a min of 40 hrs/week and most of the time more than that. I just think my boss only seems to notice when I'm here later in the day. My output of work if anything has improved since my knowledge has increased.
Should I:
1. Keep working the 7:30-5:00 and hope things improve?
2. Start coming in later again and try doing the "midnight oil" strategy?
3. Start working 7:30-7:30 so everyone notices I'm here? (just kidding on this one. I know if I asked my boss what time I should work this would be his response :P)
Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated too. I really don't mind working later these days either because there isn't much to do RIGHT after work Mon-Thurs.
Also, just to compare, the other 9 salaried employees in my department hours go like this:
3 work 6:45 - 3:30 (are considered "lazy")
2 work 7:45 - 4:30
2 work 8:15 - 5:00
1 works 9:15 - 6:00 (boss started complaining to him as of late)
1 works unusual hours since he's getting his BSME right now





RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
Seriously, I don't think you can do much about your boss's perception of your work habits without unduly punishing yourself. Maybe finding out if he works at all on the weekends and allowing him to catch you in the office a time or two.
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
I've also noticed that working late gets more brownie points than working the same amount, but starting early.
TTFN
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RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
40 hours a week would drive me nuts, but some people insist on it. Clock watchers never get ahead. If you want this boss to think you deserve reward, start at 7:30-8:30 and leave at 6:00 to 6:30. Eight to 6:00 is 10 hours, deduct an hour for lunch and call the extra 5 hours/week an investment in your future.
David
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
These views started when I was a junior officer on a Navy ship, and noticed others who worked very inefficiently during the day, just to make a show of being aboard "late" so the boss could see them.
Managers SHOULD, but many don't, recognize that, given a choice, not all people work the same hours.
- Some will work efficiently for 8 hours; others will work inefficiently for 10 hours. WHo is the better employee?
- Some people will arrive early and leave "on time"; others will arrive "on time" and leave late. Who is the better employee?
All that said, your manager is your manager, and you evidently recognize his work habits and and how he perceives the work habits of others. In the end, you'll do one of the following:
(a) work "your hours" and take the lower perception from the boss,
(b) try to communicate more with your boss and convince him how effective/efficient you are even though your hours do not match his,
(c) work "your manager's hours" to enhance his perception of you.
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
After hours is when he gets to play and he obviously liked having a playmate, especially when he can be the boss showing his is still "one of the lads at heart" and you get to play diligent employee.
Thus the final option is to turn up at whatever time between 9 am and noon you like, take a three hour lunch then stay late to play.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
Now back to your question. What are you looking to acheive? I will make an assumption and guess a bigger raise at review time. If thats your goal then change to the late-late schedule.
One other thing. To elude to other threads, don't spend that extra .5% raise all in one place.
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
But I really think promotions within the company are too far away for me. I'm 25 now and the only promotions I could possibly get are well, my bosses job (Engineering Manager) and the Product Development manager job, both of which look very unappealing to me anyway.
However, the company is paying for some education right now (Buisness Management for Engineers certification) and I'm hoping they would pay for a full grad degree later....
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
If he likes you being there late make sure and stay late sometimes when it suits you.
Being so close to home you could take a longer lunch and actually get benefit from it.
What the boss says/is doing annoys me, I'm more concerned about work done than hours worked if you catch my drift. My boss loves when our interns etc work extra hours and gives them glowing recomendations. Trouble is some of the ones that have done the most extra hours have been the worst performing, they have to do the extra hours just to try and keep up. The 3 best interns we've had since I've been here have all been, if not quite clock watchers, close to it, not going much over required hours. However they get more done to a better standard than a lot of the others so who cares.
So long as you're there when required for interfacing with other staff/customers then I don't think it should matter if you work early, late or in the middle.
However, your boss clearly has a preference so unless it causes you a problem, play it.
If it does cause a problem then find something else. You could go to HR but that road rarely leads anywhere good.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
New email -> options -> "Do not send before: ______"
Send him a few on saturday's and sundays at close to midnight.
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
Oh and I would have to defintley agree with you on the quantity over quality when it comes to time. There's an employee here that gets more done in a 8 hour period than another employee does in an 10 hour period. Why? Because the 10 hour employee spends 2-3 hours a day goofing off.
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
Take a 2+ hour lunch break
Work at McDonald's during lunch rush
Work late
Your boss likes you because he sees you there late.
The other early birds see you as one of them.
You make extra money in the time that would otherwise have been stolen from you.
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
Since you live so close to work, try to be at work before your boss (and make your presense known when he comes in) and leave when your boss leaves. Have a few minute chat about the job or whatever with your boss before you leave. Put in your honest 40 hours but increase your "personal time" while you are at work.
Other than being somewhat of a micromanager, I have no idea how useful your boss is in terms of technical mentoring. If you ARE learning, maximize that opportunity.
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
When I started at my current position five years ago, the core hours were 7:30-4:30 with an hour lunch. In these days of insufficient staffing, more often than not in order to get something done I wound up staying well past 6pm most days. It seems like the core hours are spent attending to other's requests, which is expected since I'm responsible for laboratory services.
I've never been a morning person in 30 years of working, so the later hours suit me fine, there is no one to interrupt me when I need to work on a project, etc. So I started coming in at 8am and made it clear to everyone when I started my day. My experience has been that the early arrivals tend to leave early also, but I know I am generalizing. My boss knows that I put in 9-10 hours a day and has no problem with my schedule, I just have to put up with a few friendly jokes.
I would choose your option #2.
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
the last time I worked a 40 hour week was when I took a couple of days off.
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
The rest of the team/co-workers may see that as a turn-coat/sucking up/brown nosing....
______________________________________________________________________________
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RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
Around here, there's no problem with coming and leaving early (within legislative limits). Coming and leaving late (within legislative limits) is looked upon with the hairy eyeball. (I do it anyway. I'd have even later work hours if they'd let me, and they'd get a lot more out of me.)
My boss doesn't watch *my* clock, but he watches *his* clock. Out at 5 on the dot, unless he was late by X minutes, in which case he stays X minutes late. He's pretty lenient with me, though. He knows that all in all I work the requisite number of hours. (And we do track all hours on a timesheet.)
Hg
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RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
There is no unhealthy competition between my and my coworkers. I certainly try to do the best job, but not to one up anyone else, just to be the best I can be.
It's really a great environment to grow professionally.
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
I can't even think of words to describe how much happier and more productive my 8hr days were compared to the 10+ hr days.
My point is; tell your boss straight what you are doing, and work hours that let you come in to work in the morning looking forward to picking up what you put down the evening before. Noone will forget the day you drop the ball.
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
Someone ALWAYS remembers the day you drop the ball....
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
I'm a late kind of person, and would do this second shift if allowed. With very few exceptions, there is only one person in our branch that is here after I am.
I ususally have just over 40. I have been asked to be sure I have been putting down all my hours, since it seems like I am here so long. I am also a bit more efficient with my time, so my work seems to get done relatively quickly.
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
If he complains about this, then he's really not going to get the best out of his team, and probably is not worth working for. In this sort of job market he has to realise a cyincal workforce isn't going to get him anywhere, and he will be worse off for it when people start to leave.
Is this sort of thing commonplace in the US? Perhaps we are a little ungrateful in Australia!
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
I don't know about Oz but compared to the UK in most if not all states in the US employees have lower working conditions (not sure that's fair phrasing but I hope you get the point). Pay tends to be a little higher (although the exchange rate is taking a chunk out of that) and taxes lower (though paying your own health care takes a chunk out of that).
Less vacation and more hours are typical. Also in 'right to work states' then unless you have some other contract they can terminate you as and when they please without severance.
I’m sure others will correct me if I have any of the above incorrect.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
Most employees, particularly managers would end up losing many hours every month, but the flexibility of being able to take the odd day off here and there without cutting into annual leave was a good benefit and an incentive to put in more hours while at work. There was almost a competitive feeling as to who could end the month with the highest balance.
Then we got a new pointy in charge. He rang a manager at 9.00 one morning only to find that manager hadn't arrived yet. Considering it "unprofessional" he instantly removed flexi time for all people above a certain grade, insisting that they should be avaialble from 8.30 every day. This kicked off an unofficial "work to rule" for many, who'd effectively been expected to work the same long hours, but lose the optional 12 days off a year.
- Steve
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
My experience here told me it's not the hours I work that are important but the end results. Cause I rarely work overtime and our chief of staff doesn't like it much.
So the team is big enough to avoided having to do excess hours. Also, during my idle time, I make tools to be more efficient in my work. So I end with more idle time used to make better tools and update my knowledge to be more efficient and up with more idle time and so on.
For next where, I will negociate to go for a 35 hours week and maybe more if I can get a teaching position at the local University.
Danny Garant, ing.jr
Groupe Stavibel Inc.
www.stavibel.qc.ca
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
The concept is that people who show up early to get their work done give the impression of having poor time management skills, people who stay late are hardworkers who work the hours necessary to complete the job.
Having said that, I totally disagree with impressions listed above, but I have found more success showing up on time and working late.
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
Depending on workload I've worked from 7d/16hr in a week to 3d/8hrs in a week.
Although I do have proof that last year I worked 2000+hrs. I am salried at 40hr/wk 50wk/yr. It works great for me, when things get busy I tend to work a very wierd sch:
9am till 2pm -- do e-mail/catchup with coworkers
2-3 lunch
3-7pm -- work for the day
2am-5am -- work for the day ahead...
Then I'd sleep.
That got my sleep schedual all messed up, its been a trial to get back into days.
Often around here if you're not in early those that do show up early resent you, and if you stay late to get things done, you tend to not worry so much about what everyone else is doing.
nick
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
I generally work anywhere from 40-60 hour weeks. And I've gone months without a single day off and have pulled many many 12-18 hour days. When things are slow... I strole into the office around 8:30 - 9:00 and will often slip out WAY before 5 or 6.... But when things are busy and its time to deliver the goods... I'll be there as early as I need to be and for as long as I need to be to get the job done.
I actually just came off a month long stretch of 7 day/week 70+ hour weeks. Today I showed up around 9am, sipped some coffee, and was gone by 1pm... And that makes it all worth it...
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
Also when you say that you generally work 40-60hrs a week, which should average out to 50 hours a week, that is a lot of work and almost no time for yourself.
Maybe I have a different attitude toward work then most, but it is my belief that I should enjoy my life and not slave away in order to make the owner of the company I am working for a little richer.
Don't get me wrong, I believe that a person should work hard and be productive, but it just doesn't make any sense for me to work 50+ hours a week for X amount of years so that I might be able to retire when I am around 65+ years old only to realize that I am now too old to actually enjoy life and do the activities that I enjoy doing.
I have never understood people who work so many hours, unless they have kids to feed. I remember when I was in highschool and working part time at a boat company. My boss at the time worked 60++ hours a week 6-7 days of the week most of the time. I asked him why in the hell do you work so much and when do you ever get to enjoy the rewards of all your work? I don't remember his answer but it was B.S.
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
2 - Do something you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life.
While those 2 statements may seem contradictory, I try to use them to maintain my work-life balancd. I truly love what I do. I enjoy the pressure and excitement of working on challenging problems under tight schedules. However, when I go home, it's time for me and my family.
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
Allow me to elaborate... I do enjoy working hard. And I enjoy working long hours. And I (most of the time) enjoy being at work be it 6am or 6pm. I've worked hard since I was a kid. I'm not the typical engineer. And I started my engineering career late in life compared to most... because it was a fall back career for me...
I spent most of my 20's "working hard" to be a life long career raft guide and "ski bum". I've spent entire winters snow skiing everyday in the "greatest snow on Earth" and I've spent entire springs, summers, and falls kayaking and guiding rafts in some of the best whitewater in the U.S. During that time, I often spent months living out of tents, barns, cars, and (if I was lucky) maybe a really crummy apartment from time to time. Often I worked double jobs to affort new skis, or new ski boots, or a new kayak to replace the one that got trashed during a floodwater day that spring, and sometimes I would come up with the cash to pay for the occasional semester of EE classes if I decided to stick around town that year...
I now live off of less than half of my salary. And I take my family with me when its time to hit the river for a weekend. I have two vehicles, one has 250k miles on it and folks at work poke fun that I still drive it. The other is a 13 sec car that does 0-60 in 5. And I wash it often... But I average more miles cycling each year then I do driving to work. And yep... I'm that guy on the bike that will flip the bird to whatever driver chooses to honk the horn at the guy trying to get a little exercise on a long country road...
So when you ask me if I enjoy spending an average of 50 hours a week at work... Heck yeah I do. And I'm thankful that I have a career where I'm given the chance to make a little cash and perform well while also having plenty of time to spent with my family. My numbers tell me I should be able to retire at the age of 45 if I choose to do so... but, I doubt I will. I'll probably be teaching skiing or guiding rafts by then...
Does that answer your question about my enjoying working?
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
Sometimes when posting on message boards it is hard to tell what a posters tone is, offensive, curious.....you know.
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
I was just trying to make a point regarding "enjoying" working. I work around many enigeers who punch in at 8:00 on the dot, and punch out at 5:00 on the dot and spend most of the time in between counting down the minutes until they can leave...
I suppose I'm lucky because I DO enjoy my job very much. But I think its an active choice and something you have to continually work at to maintain ongoing long term satisfaction. Just like keeping a healthy relationship with a spouse, kid, or a smooth running car, a sturdy house, etc... it all requires continual attention.
I do get frustrated at the punch in / punch out folks who do not seem to enjoy their work and seem do it strickly for the paycheck while meantime treating the oppurtunity to have a wonderful career as a burden...
To at least touch on the OP... If anyone in any company is trying to alter the perception of his or her value to the company by "appearing" to work hard based on clock in / clock out times... well... That just does not make sense to me... Performance should speak for itself regardless of the time punch...
RE: Working 40 hrs/week....somewhat....
Ha, I remember being that naieve. If you've found that to be true you're lucky. It was true up to a point at my last employer but at this place I'm not so sure.
I agree in principle that's how it should be but human beings aren't alway completely logical. If you can play on a factor of a managers personality to your advantage, without completely taking abusing the situation, I'd say you're almost foolish not to.
Makes up for the times when not matter how hard you try your best don't seem good enough.
In fairness here it's not so much about time punch as fitting in if you want to get ahead.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...