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The SPY
2

The SPY

The SPY

(OP)
So a little back ground Info:
I started my job working under an engineer and with another engineer in my department. After less then a month the head design engineer quit for more $$, and the other engineer has since been demoted to Sales Associate (for is lack of engineering ability), and I was thrown into the design engineer position, well before I should have.  Since I don’t have sound engineer for help, I use internet engineering resources a lot.  

The Spy:
Most of the engineering resources I use look like engineering resources to a person walking past accept eng-tips (ie. It doesn’t look like its used for work).  So one day I did not alt+tab (switch screens) to ACAD, and one of the operations managers saw me reading on Eng-tips.  Ever since they have walked really fast into my office(behind my desk) to ask pointless questions, or just look out my window and say something about the weather (they did while I was writing this).  

The Problem:
The problem is the OM are really buddy buddy with the boss.  This may be nothing but it’s a little wired to me. Now I spend 90% of my time looking at “work” related stuff. But there is the other 10% where I have said I want to change jobs, Pats pub, etc.  I was thinking I may make an alias account, and figure a way to show the OM that I do uses this for work, to avoid any potential problems. But on the other side, it’s not their job, and I know my boss knows that I use what ever I can to get the job done right, because he knows understands my situation. Like anyone, I don’t like the feeling I am being spied on… and just want to do a good job.

What would you guys suggest? What do most bosses think of eng-tips, does your boss know/care?

RE: The SPY

Are you the sole engineer at your work?  Not that it matters, but why don't you approach your boss and inform him of Eng-Tips.com and the vast knowledge it contains?  Perhaps turn him "on" to it, or at least let him know why you visit it so much.  As Barney Fife said, "Nip it! Nip it in the bud."

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: The SPY

Couple ideas, maybe keep your eng-tips activity to first thing, at coffee break, lunch and last thing etc.

Type your responses etc in word first (also helps with spell checking) then paste into Eng-tips.  That way the browser isn't up as much.

I also moved desks a while back and now have my back to the wall, and hence my monitor, so I have warning of visitors.

Probably not the kind of answer you were looking for, and of course if they're watching you they can probably also have IT track your activity anyway.

I sometimes debate my use of Eng-tips, for instance asking a technical question is I think definitely work related.  However, is answering someone else’s?  Though of course without give & take this type of forum wont work so if you want your questions answered shouldn’t you answer others sometimes, at least when you can.  The career advice, pats pub etc are arguably less work related most of the time so lately I’ve been trying to limit my time in those forum.

As to dealing with the spy, I’ll let others give you their 2C worth.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: The SPY

Leave it on, why do you need to hide it?

Lucky me I handle the networking too.  I installed the router my self  smile.  I guess it is time for me to delete all the history in the router  smile

Never, but never question engineer's judgement

RE: The SPY

The fact that you are worried about “the other 10% of the time” says it all really.

Everyone I would guess uses the internet to gather data or information, if it is work related why hide it? If on the other hand you were discussing changing jobs using company time and money, would you see that as being right if the shoe was on the other foot?

In short you seem to know what you are doing is wrong and wish to try and hide it, why not just stop doing it? If you wish to play with fire expect to get burnt.

RE: The SPY

Hi, this is your boss.  Thank you for sharing your thoughts in a public Internet forum.

You're fired.

<grin>

RE: The SPY

My boss knows that I hang out here a lot; it's on my resume.

Twenty, thirty, forty years ago I spent a lot of time on the phone, asking questions and learning.

This is better.

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: The SPY

That said, given that you are having trouble with pointy- haired people sneaking up behind you, rearrange your office so you are facing the door and visitors are on the other side of your desk.  

It's a more powerful position, at least in the pointy- haired world.

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: The SPY

Never flinch.  Let him see everything.  If it becomes an issue, make it a bigger issue.

They took away your mentor, and put you in his position before you were qualified.  You need the counsel of peers and elders.  If they can't see that, then perhaps its time to take the path of your former boss.

RE: The SPY

I don't hide my internet use.

1) The firewall records all traffic, so they know what and when I'm going something online regardless if someone sees me do it.

2) Why look guilty when you're not?  If you quickly alt+tab to another screen, then you show that you are at least aware of the fact that you might be doing something not approved of.  I've had bosses, supervisors, managers, etc. come up to me when I surfing the net.  I could be searching for my next design idea, reading informative white papers, getting a question answered on eng-tips, or reading the world of warcraft forums.  Either way, they don't know the context of what I'm doing just by glancing at the screen so alt+tabbing just makes me look guilty of something.  I leave it up.  Let them look, if they ask, I have a legitimate answer.

--Scott

http://wertel.eng.pro

RE: The SPY

Dave this is the VP of HR, You are fired for firing someone on a public forum on the interenet.

"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?" Oddball, "Kelly's Heros" 1970

Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.
 

 
 

RE: The SPY

You can't fire Dave for firing someone over the internet.  It's a right-to-work state.  I'm suing for unlawful termination.

--Scott

http://wertel.eng.pro

RE: The SPY

Utopian: you can do what you like
Utilitarian: you can do something useful...
Totalitarian (Total-IT-arian): you can do what IT let you do...

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: The SPY

Never alt tab out if you are worried about someone seeing what you are doing.

In windows make sure your internet explorer window is smaller then the Acad window behind it (or any other work related for that matter).  Just click on the acad screen and it will pop to the front.  Learned this a long time ago during an extremely dull job ;) Alt tab can be affected by computer speed etc.  Even clicking on another tab on the task bar can be slow

If you are worried about leaving history on your computer try surfing off a flash drive.  Alot of them come with software or you can install your own onto them.

This guy sounds like a weasel.  I have known people that have wrongfully lost their jobs due to someone running to the boss or being buddy buddy with him and making up whatever they wanted because the boss will believe them.

Nowadays I only surf at lunch or around lunch even for work related stuff unless I am desperate.

If they get lippy tell them to take away your internet privileges.  

RE: The SPY

High moral ground answer.

If you can justify it, do it openly. If you can't justify it, don't do it at work.

Fun answer.

Create a screen that looks like a "top secret" military project. Next time he sneaks up on you, accidentally let him see it before hurriedly alt tabbing out of it, then, with a dash of hostility and a dash of anguish, ask if he has security clearance for this project, and then express concerns about how the FBI or whoever does those investigations in your part of the world would react knowing how you are not being provided with a properly secured area to perform this work.

Of course, fun is fun, but when at the expense of someone with influence, it can come at a high price.

By the way, we have restructured and you position is now redundant to our needs.

By the way, those who attempted to fire you and involved us in an unfair dismissal law suite have been fired for incompetence and gross misconduct.

Yours unfaithfully

Chairman of the Board

Regards

eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

RE: The SPY

If two people have suddenly left and as a result you've been suddenly forced upward into a position with more responsibility, then march into your boss's office, pocket an expensive cigar from the box on his desk, thank him for his confidence in you, shake his hand, sit down and put your feet up on his disk, and then open the discussion about salary and your new corner office (with a new 27-inch monitor facing your private corner).

Okay, slight exaggeration... but you get my point.

My workplace has a written IT policy explicitly allowing surfing for purposes of technical research and general technical education (or words to that effect). The only Internet activities disallowed are the obvious and common sense moral, ethical, legal issues.

Good luck.

RE: The SPY

I keep my Eng-tips on all day. After viewing forums like this one I usually keep it on the Metallurgy forum. That is who I am and what I do. I have told many engineers and managers about this site, and I have solicited many of your ideas about manufacturing issues I have encountered.

Don't be ashamed of Eng-tips. Never before in my career have I been able to help others and be helped. But I also moved my desk so my back is against the wall, I think there was a thread about this a few months ago. Of course common sense should prevail on any viewing of non-work sites, although I will check my fantasy league at lunchtime:)

RE: The SPY

(OP)
Patprimer, might have to try that “TOP-SECET”, I just yesterday got a security clearance job, my first ever! (really not as cool as I thought it would be)

VE1BLL, I did march to my boss and I have the best office with two big windows, lots of room (better then my boss), big desk.  smile.  

The problem is the 3’ plotter with all its support stuff and drawings is in my office so it’s a little cumbersome to rearrange anything myself.  I have asked the maintenance man to move it but he is retiring in a couple weeks so he tries to avoid work.

I guess I will not worry about eng-tips and just let them know it’s for work… and just not let them know my handle.

Like some people here I post at home (In “Pats pub” we picked on one of the English fellows for posting at 3am, his time smile ), so I am not worried about the “wasting” work time, just the fact that I have posted about other jobs and that I want to change jobs.  This would be a problem if someone from work knew my handle/name.

RE: The SPY

I'd say, keep your Eng-tips activity to home use, unless you are using it to solve a specific problem for your job.

Charlie
www.facsco.com

RE: The SPY

My boss knows I'm here.  Every once in a while, when he's looking for something on the net, he comes across one of my posts.  Granted, they're posts in the technical fora and not this forum or one of the other soft ones.  But if he wanted to find me, he could.

He probably sees the Eng-Tips site on my monitor a lot.  Only once did I hurriedly close the window, just last week, and I don't even know why I did it.

I'd stay out of Pat's Pub during work hours.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: The SPY

Engineers and our ethics.

Go ahead and view eng-tips during working hours because it is technical content, you are learning a lot, and some would even grant continuing ed credits for the time being here.  But, stay out of the soft forums and the pub because that is not technical in nature and therefore you are doing personal internet surfing on company time and that is like stealing.

Wow!  We are a picky group, aren't we.

--Scott

http://wertel.eng.pro

RE: The SPY

In the type jobs that most of us as engineers have, we don't leave our minds at our work station.  The technical issues continue to grind in the grey matter even after the office door knob hits us in the butt and some of the best solutions I have ever had have popped into my mind at all times of the day and night other than when my butt was occupying the chair at my work station.

I carry a Blackberry and a laptop and they are used constantly after "work hours" for company business.

I have no compunction at all about clicking into what ever I want to (excluding trash and porn and that sort of stuff) when I am at my work station but in reality, my job is demanding enough that I rarely do; I just don't have time.  Most of my Eng-tips time is spent after hours and weekends as an escape because I am frankly too busy at work to lurk here very much.  I do have to wonder sometimes when I open some threads in the soft fora especially in the evening how some of the members that contributed to it got anything done at their day job that day and if I were a manager of more people than I am, I'd have to give serious consideration to the time they might spend in Eng-tips.  There are things here that could help them in their jobs, but there are also things that can waste a lot of their time.

For my part, I'm just waiting for one of the pointy heads to make an issue of something like this, because when they do, I am going to tell them that they can't have it both ways.  I can leave the laptop and the BB in the safe in the office overnight if that is the way they want to do business.  (We are not allowed to leave them at our workstations in case we are broken into as has happened.)

rmw

rmw

RE: The SPY

I'm on here a lot, so I'm probably one of the people you're thinking about.  I'm a "coast and burn" type.  I work faster than a lot of other people, but then I need to clear my brain every so often.  If I were the type to plod along slower but steadier, there wouldn't be any overt down-time to point to, but I don't think I'd be a more effective employee.  They're getting a lot more out of me than they ever got from my last three predecessors.

Right now I'm sitting here after hours on a day that a week ago had been planned as a vacation day, trying to rev up to starting speed on my next task, which will take long enough that I will need a dinner break tonight.  I'm not feeling guilty about my dedication (or lack thereof) to my employer.

I suppose if I were in a job that was more emergency-based I'd have fewer brain-clearing opportunities throughout the day.  I think I'd like a job that was somewhat busier than mine but not in crisis mode all the time.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: The SPY

I'm the guy who was posting at 0300 UK time, probably learning and maybe just helping someone in the technical fora during my own time. Whatever I learned that night will help me in my work, so I don't feel remotely guilty if I use this site during working hours. I am educating myself during my time, occasionally I might take a slight liberty during theirs. I don't get much opportunity to learn from other engineers at work these days unless they're consultants in for a few days and this place helps fill that need to some extent. I learn something pretty much every time I visit this site, and that makes me better at my job. Obviously it also has the benefit that I'm hopefully more employable elsewhere too!

If work really wants to make an issue out of web use then I'll stop using Eng-Tips, or stop using the web completely if necessary. I guarantee my productivity will go down. Whatever they might gain by imposing some petty restriction or ban, they will lose a thousand times over. So far it has not been an issue, so I guess that there is a mutual agreement at some level that allowing engineers to use the net does make them more productive and keeps us motivated.
 

----------------------------------
  
If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

RE: The SPY

(OP)
Thank you all for imput.

SO I cut back on the "PUB" and started openly using Eng-tips.

I talked to the OM, and the Operations Manager said she was "keeping track of things"(spying on me and the other guy) in the office... ...i get the impression the OM dont understand the usefulness, but the spying is not as annoying anymore.

Best Regards

RE: The SPY

Heh.  A few minutes ago my boss walked in to see the "How to Improve Myself" title on the top of the screen, and he just laughed.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: The SPY

You know what I've done? I've created a blog in which I put facts and items about my field of study. In particular I'm using it in preparation for a board exam.

If you've read any of my posts complaining about a lazy co-worker you know how frustrated I've been doing more than him.

Now I don't feel guilty if there is a lull in work and I pull up my study blog, eng=tips or other forums.

Ok I do feel a bit guilty but when I recently was able to determine that I've been doing 75% of the work in a scenario that it should be evenly split in 3 I am starting to feel a bit more entitled to some quality screw off time.

RE: The SPY

(OP)
Well my mindset has changed alot since...

I got a job offer which I am taking.
this job offer is not a big pay raise but
A- its what I want to do
B- I have half the responsibility and still get paid the same.
C- If i mess something up big time, no one could die.
D- there are 3 other engineers!

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