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More from the Journalism School of Language
3

More from the Journalism School of Language

More from the Journalism School of Language

(OP)
Normally I consider the Telegraph one of the more literate of the daily papers but I guess this this one is a rarity?

Quote:

On his sixth attempt, in 2002, he became the first person to fly solo around the world in a balloon - in one unsuccessful bid he plunged five miles into the sea off Australia.
This is an account of the death of Steve Fosset but should that be Bathyscape and not balloon and just how deep is the sea off Australia?
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/16/wfossett116.xml)

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

Here's another, regarding last week's collision between a bus and a tram (street car, trolley) in Milan.

Quote:

Apparently the tram, in an attempt to avoid a car obstructing its path, swerved abruptly and crashed into the bus which was travelling in the opposite direction, ANSA said citing witnesses.

Trams run on rails.  A tram can't swerve at all.

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

jmw:

I take it to be the situation where hiws balloon failed and he had to land in the sea.  Apparently he was about 26,000 feet up when the failure occurred.

Mike McCann
McCann Engineering

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

A journalist is someone who spends four years of college failing to learn to write at an eighth grade level.

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

(OP)
A third option!
Thanks msquared48.
I was going to propose a rewrite thus:

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

(OP)
A third option!
Thanks msquared48.
I was going to propose a rewrite thus:
"crashed into the sea five miles of the Australian coast".
But the ambiguity stands.
Usually i criticise journalists for not remembering their five  honest serving men (until far too late in the story) but in this case the editor should have blue/redlines part of the sentence:
"On his sixth attempt, in 2002, he became the first person to fly solo around the world in a balloon - in one unsuccessful bid he plunged five miles into the sea off Australia."
It doesn't actually add anything to the account, as written.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

It would have been clearer if it read:

in one unsuccessful bid he plunged five miles, landing in the sea off Australia.

It's unlikely that he plunged five miles into the sea.

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

It really should be at least two sentences.

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

Report of a recent art theft:

"The other two paintings taken from the E.G. Buehrle Collection - by Paul Cezanne and Edgar Degas - remain missing, police said. "

Should be easy to find these two well known art thieves. O believe their graves are marked.

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

(1) he plunged five miles into the sea off Australia
(height of the fall)

(2) he plunged five miles into the sea off Australia
(depth into the sea)

I have no problem with the text. My initial interpretation was (1) and that was the authors intent. I can see how sombody who dives more than they fly might interpret it differently (2), and I guess that is unfortunate, but I still don't have a problem with it.

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

"Police station toilet stolen, cops have nothing to go on."

"Don't let worries kill you, let the church help."

cheers

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

Heard on the bastion of journalism that is BBC Radio 1's "Newsbeat"...

"A suicide bomber has killed at least one person...."

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

(OP)
I guess its OK to go off thread in my own thread, with apologies of course, but I saw in the local shoe shop one shoe or boot in each pair with the label "Buy one, get one free".
  

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

Journalists who phrases like these, could claim that their ancestors were related to Pythia of Delphi.

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

Journalists who write phrases like these, could claim that their ancestors were related to Pythia of Delphi.

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

(OP)
Varsamidis, its sign of age when you begin to repeat yourself and of old age when you forget exactly what you said the first time round.
I don't know what to say when you've got it written in front of you and still get it wrong.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

(OP)

Quote:

This article was amended on Tuesday May 29 2007 as it should have mentionned a bridle path, not a bridal path. This has been corrected.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/may/24/energy.communities

The article was about wind farms (a good read) and I was struck by the correction at the end. The spelling mistake is theirs; I used cut and paste.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

For those in other parts of the world, it's worth pointing out that the compositors on the Grauniad were once justly famous for their spelling mistakes.

A.

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

(OP)
Let's not forget that it is alleged that US journalists, in conjunction with Big Bill Gates, managed to change the name of a UK Department.

During the Foot and Mouth Outbreak, copy containing such news as "MAFF slaughters thousands of cattle." would get corrected by spell checker to:
"Mafia slaughters thousands of cattle."

MAFF (Ministry of Food and Fisheries) is now DEFRA, the Department of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. (This department is already nicknamed the Destruction of English Farming Regulatory Agency.)
Naturally, since Big Bill is/was a close buddy of Tony Blair, other reasons for the change were offered by the government for the changes.

I'm sorry, for those of you that will Google, I did it for you and admit an error. It is actually:
MAFF - Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food
http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/bse/glossary.html

Regretably, I could not trace an actual article that would substantiate the alleged spell checker incident.

Incidentally, spell checker wants to change MAFF to Naff, Raff, Gaff or Taff.
 

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

(OP)
Right or wrong, and I make no claims, but in this (from the Daily Telegraph) I had to back up and re-read the following:

"Experienced handlers were working with Rocky, a 7ft 6in, 50-stone bear, when the animal suddenly bit Stephan Miller, 39, at the Predators in Action park owned by his cousin Randy Miller."

I read it and thought, "the Bear's cousin owns the park?"
and shouldn't they say  "0wned by Stephan's cousin"?

They are probably right but it did make me think.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

I'm with ya.  The subject seems to tie in better than the object.  On the other hand, if you use different pronouns, does it resolve better?

Handlers were working with Maria, a biggol' mama bear, when she suddenly bit Stephan, 39, at the park owned by his cousin.

Hg

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RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

I've got a co-worker who is very proud of the fact that he was a journalism major (not engr) in college.  On more than one occasion he has said "people always ask me to help them phrase things, because I was a journalism major and I speak very legibly."  

On each occasion, I've replied with "That's why I can always clearly see what you're saying."

apparently it's not funny... he just nods knowingly, smiles, and keeps talking.
 

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

(OP)
I'd tip off HR to check his references and especially suggest that they check his stated educational background.neutral

By the way, as Zeusfaber pointed out, the Guardian are noted for their spelling mistakes so it is presumably with tongue firmly in cheek that Clive James criticises Big Bill:
http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/poetry/story/0,,1473515,00.html

HgTx:
Your example works better with just one word change:
"Handlers were working with Maria, a biggol' mama bear, when she suddenly bit Stephan, 39, at the park owned by his Stephan's cousin.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

(OP)
The Telegraph lets itself down again with this from an article on Abu Hamza:

Quote:

In the US he faces life locked up in a 48 sq ft by 80 sq ft cell which he claims is also a breach of his human rights.
(my bold).

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

jmw--

You know the press makes no errors.

Perhaps we have finally developed the tesseract as a tool of incarceration.

old field guy

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

I suspect the problem is that the door only exists in 3d space, and he has to walk a long way from his bed to the door.

There's a lot of room in a 3840 ft^4 hypercube, if you use it properly.

 

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

That's nothing. My high school diploma (and the entire class of 2004) is clearly printed with the state mispelled. Goes to show the caliber of that school. I never did get a corrected diploma, wonder if mine is even valid.

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

From the Zimbabwe Independent ;
'there has been one common denominator, Robert Mugabe and Zanu PF'

Well, perhaps two?

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

(OP)

Quote:

"Chinese takeaway biodiesel man in garage explosion horror"

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/28/takeaway_biodiesel_fireball_horror/

Well, it had me going for a minute; I was wondering why the Chinese would take away the Englishman from his Northamptonshire home who blew himself up manufacturing biodiesel.

However, the man (under the circumstances a potential candidate for the Darwin awards), was manufacturing his biofuel from used vegetable oil he had obtained from his local Chinese Takeaway Restaurant.
Note that I have capitalised "Takeaway" which would, I think, have spared me the confusion.

Should we qualify The Register as a "journal"? or not and excuse them.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

They're completely right--for the meaning you had in mind, it would have to be "take away", not "takeaway".

Hg

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RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

must've been houston police - I hear they occasionally dump detainees in the river.
 

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

Me either, but headline writers think they have to be cutesy.  Often, they try so hard that the headline doesn't match the story.  But then, they want to sell papers.

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

British tabloid headliners only have one criterion for a headline.  It must be based on a cheesy pun.

- Steve

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

(OP)
B Kerr, on another web forum draws this shining example to our attention:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7713824.stm
It isn't the grammar or the spelling that excites his attention, this time it is the math in the opening paragraph.
To save following the link, here it is:

Quote:

The number of watchdog bodies in Scotland is to be cut by at least a quarter, from 11 to five.
Oh dear, and we thought good old Auntie's standards were bad enough already.  

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

(OP)
Meanwhile, entering the journalism hall of fame with less than objective reporting (this must be the Iraq equivalent of the BBC) we have:

Quote:

"This is a farewell kiss, you dog,"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/3776098/Thousands-demand-release-of-shoe-throwing-journalist.html
Now, if this were some character in a 1950's comic with this expression encapsulated in a speech balloon, then we'd probably think no more of it but as an example of modern journalism?
Try imagining what the journalists of your favourite newspaper would have said.  

Of course, had this been a handmade shoe by Richard Reid rather than Greenes of Northampton, it might have been a different story especially if he had remembered to light the fuse (fuze? sorry, I go with fuse in both cases, what is with the zee?)

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

It probably loses something in translation.  "On the [privates] of your mother, you horse son of a donkey" sounds great in both Hebrew and Arabic.

Hg

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RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

Quote:

... the accident was as a result trying to convert a 4x4 into an off-road vehicle.

What's more, the 4x4 in question was clearly a Landrover!!

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

(OP)

Quote:

The firm declined to comment, but one insider who was at the get together, confirmed that Mr Buffini had angrily took people to task during the burger supper.
Maybe: "... angrily took people to task..." or had angrily taken people to task...."?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/4700032/Private-equity-boss-orders-partners-to-eat-burgers-after-one-complains-about-hotel-food.html
 

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

Quote:

The Telegraph lets itself down again with this from an article on Abu Hamza:

Quote:

In the US he faces life locked up in a 48 sq ft by 80 sq ft cell which he claims is also a breach of his human rights.

(my bold).

This could actually be correct.  The cell could be 6 feet wide by 10 feet deep and 8 feet high.  It does seem like a rather odd way to describe the size of the cell though.

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

It's the elusive fourth dimension (ignoring time).

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

From today (www.abc.net.au)

"Leaders of the Lebanese community say Abdul Darwiche had made serious efforts to steer clear of crime when he died."

Seeing that he died on the spot from multiple gunshot wounds, I think he should have started his 'serious efforts' before he died.

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

And from today:

WASHINGTON -- New jobless claims drop more than expected to 646,000 while continuing claims set a new record, the Labor Department reported Thursday.

Wait.  Jobless claims dropping is a good thing, right?  Or is it the other way around?  Is this a neutral statement?  Bad? Good?   

______________________________________________________________________________
This is normally the space where people post something insightful.

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

Seems logical to me.  The rate of new people applying for unemployment benefits has dropped a bit, but those already on the roll are not dropping off fast enough to make the total go down.

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

(OP)

Quote:

McMahon died shortly after midnight at Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center surrounded by his wife, Pam, and other family members, said Howard Bragman, his publicist.
(telegraph.co.uk)
How big was his wife and what was her name?
Yeah, it's OK, but journalese and something grates in that phrasing.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

The use of 'being surrounded by' when someone passes is common language to briefly state that family members were present and at their side.  Personally I don't see anything wrong with it.

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

What's wrong with "His wife, Pam, and other family members were at his side"?

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

(OP)
But should there be a comma between his wife and Pam?

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

"His wife, Pam and othe family members" implies a comma separated list - i.e. "wife" and "Pam" are two separate people.

"His wife, Pam, and othe family members" implies "Pam" is in parenthesis - i.e. "wife (who is called Pam)".

"His wife Pam, and othe family members" is meaningless.

M

--
Dr Michael F Platten

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

It could be taken either way (Pam is someone else or Pam is his wife), if you believe in the Oxford comma, but context makes it clear.

There is nothing grammatically wrong with being surrounded by x, y, and z.  You might first read it as being surrounded by x, but there is no way to continue to parse the sentence without seeing y and z (or z, if y is an appositive) as conjoined with x, in which case the surrounding is not done by x alone.  This kind of partial misparsing, not that anyone cares, is known as "garden-pathing", because you are led up the grammatical garden path with an incorrect parse.

So "who's Pam?" is a grammatically valid if context-ignorant question.  "How big is his wife?" doesn't fit the grammar of the sentence.

Hg

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RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

"His wife Pam, and other family members" is meaningless.

Au contraire, with the spelling corrected, the meaning is obvious to me, even without the extra, comma.  :)

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

(OP)
Well I knew I'd be on shaky ground grammatically but i really didn't like the phrasing. It seemed a clumsy construction to me.
That isn't to say it is wrong or otherwise questionable but I can't think it is aesthetically pleasing.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

The sentence reads reasonbly well to me with both commas, but better with both omitted.  With one comma, it is not correct.

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

Too much, time, on your, hands.

If we all agreed, we would be Communists. - Me

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

If Pam is his wife's name, there should be no comma after "wife".  Taking that away, it then is only a "two item list", which doesn't require commas for separation.  The sentence should read:

....surrounded by his wife Pam and other family members, said Howard Bragman, his publicist.  

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

It's also correct to treat "Pam" as an appositive and set it off with commas (but then you need two of them, not just one).

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

Appositive.  That's the work I was looking for.

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

Word, that is.

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

(OP)
Today's Story headline:

Quote:

Execution of Yemeni child killer captured on camera
Now that could mean a child who is a killer or some one who killed children.

Children as killers, even in a civilised society isn't that unknown (e.g. James Bulger killed by Jon Venables and Robert Thompson) but especially when recruited into some rebel army it is more commonplace.

Thus, in the context of the times, I suspect that our first reading may be influenced by our expectations.

Had this been the 50's, for example, I suspect we'd have no trouble interpreting that to mean someone who killed children.

Today it is possible to infer the alternative reading that the person executed was a child murderer and the shock is the thought that a state would execute a child.

Again, it may or may not be grammatically correct but I begin to suspect that the choice of wording is deliberate enough to make you read further.
I mean, to what extent do we really care that some country such as Yemen executes murderers? But the use of "child" draws the attention doubly because we expect perhaps some outcry against the Yemen for killing children, even if criminal.
 

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: More from the Journalism School of Language

From my local paper:

..."former female inmates..."

No longer female, or no longer inmates?

Regards,

Mike

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