Who is responsible for ceiling drywall cracks?
Who is responsible for ceiling drywall cracks?
(OP)
I am interested in getting some opinions from other PE's on a deflection/cracking problem on a recently constructed residence. I am the SE of record for a $3 million residence in an area with high snow loads (85psf). The design was mostly performed by a junior structural engineer and reviewed and stamped by me.
There is a 20 ft long ceiling joist span on a 2/12 roof that is framed with with wood I-joists designed with a deflection of L/470 snow load and L/380 total load deflection with SL=85psf and DL=20psf. (IBC limit is L/240 for snow load on roof members). The rafters are perpendicular to the roof slope. There is a glulam beam in the ceiling with points of support (walls below) that cause it to deflect very little. The purpose of the glulam is for perpendicular roof framing for a 4 foot roof overhang. The calculated L/380 deflection of the adjacent I-joists is about 0.63" and a crack has developed in the drywall seam that I believe has been caused by the differential deflection of the I-joist vs. the glulam.
We were contracted by the Architect to perform the structural engineering for this project. The architect has basically told the owner that it isn't his problem. The owner called me and I am going to meet him at the house this week to take a look at the problem.
I am interested in getting others' opinions on this situation. Who do you think should be responsible? Engineer, architect, or contractor? On one hand, maybe I should have required L/1000 deflection...on the other hand that is really not practical or cost effective for most structural designs and this is a situation that I have never encountered before.
On a side note: The owner is an attorney and from the questions he was asking on the phone I felt like I was already on the witness stand. He surely will not go quietly and I can understand...I wouldn't want ceiling cracks in my new home either.
There is a 20 ft long ceiling joist span on a 2/12 roof that is framed with with wood I-joists designed with a deflection of L/470 snow load and L/380 total load deflection with SL=85psf and DL=20psf. (IBC limit is L/240 for snow load on roof members). The rafters are perpendicular to the roof slope. There is a glulam beam in the ceiling with points of support (walls below) that cause it to deflect very little. The purpose of the glulam is for perpendicular roof framing for a 4 foot roof overhang. The calculated L/380 deflection of the adjacent I-joists is about 0.63" and a crack has developed in the drywall seam that I believe has been caused by the differential deflection of the I-joist vs. the glulam.
We were contracted by the Architect to perform the structural engineering for this project. The architect has basically told the owner that it isn't his problem. The owner called me and I am going to meet him at the house this week to take a look at the problem.
I am interested in getting others' opinions on this situation. Who do you think should be responsible? Engineer, architect, or contractor? On one hand, maybe I should have required L/1000 deflection...on the other hand that is really not practical or cost effective for most structural designs and this is a situation that I have never encountered before.
On a side note: The owner is an attorney and from the questions he was asking on the phone I felt like I was already on the witness stand. He surely will not go quietly and I can understand...I wouldn't want ceiling cracks in my new home either.






RE: Who is responsible for ceiling drywall cracks?
If contractor can access from unexposed side let him fill crack with silicone and paint the exposed side again to hide the crack.
I had a situation where this crack keeps coming back. SDo hit the nail on head.
RE: Who is responsible for ceiling drywall cracks?
In my experience, you are better not to be defensive. Do your best to get to the root of the problem and figure out how to solve it, and the owner should be appeased, even if he is a lawyer.
RE: Who is responsible for ceiling drywall cracks?
Never, but never question engineer's judgement
RE: Who is responsible for ceiling drywall cracks?
The high live load coupled with a lawyer owner could cause some significant hiccups...
Dik
RE: Who is responsible for ceiling drywall cracks?
RE: Who is responsible for ceiling drywall cracks?
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RE: Who is responsible for ceiling drywall cracks?
I am always on the lookout for this scenario and either change the framing or add nore joists in the area of the hard point to minimize the local deflection.
For your sake, I hope I am wrong... I hate lawyers.
Mike McCann
McCann Engineering
RE: Who is responsible for ceiling drywall cracks?
Having the builder along on the inspection may be wise, but you should discuss the situation with them first and then ask them not to discuss cause/fault in front of the client.
After the inspection you can then discuss with the builder the best way forward. You will probably find that the builder will not have an issue with supplying a few men for a couple of hours to resolve the issue as long as they recieve guidance from yourself on how to fix it.
Communicate with the client and ensure that you are doing everything you can to resolve the issue. Then keep them appraised as things move on.
As long as the client sees you are working to resolve the issue they will not be considering legal action.
RE: Who is responsible for ceiling drywall cracks?
I think you should talk with some of the other architects, who you do work for. To me it is not a structural problem but a finish problem. Although problems in bwith finishes cracking can be due to defelction of the support systems it is usually caused by improper detailing.
I think as long as you follow the deflection guidelines for the structural material you are using you have done your job. All structural elements deflect, glulams will shrink and swell. It should be the architects job to detail the finishes to accomadate movement of the structural system. If the architect specified brick veneer with no control joints and it cracked would it be the structural engineers fault.
One of the problems today, is a lack of experience among younger engineers and architects. There is a lot they are not taught in school and and it seems so many times today, that the additional wisdom of older engineers is not being past done to younger engineers.
RE: Who is responsible for ceiling drywall cracks?
The problem is that if there is a court case everyone will get drawn in regardless of if they are obviously at fault or not. Some lawyers use the machine gun method of litigation serving writs at evryone in site hoping that they will hit someone.
Best to resolve the issue before it comes to blame, it is generally much better for everyone.
I agree with the comment regarding experience, experienced engineers are encouraged to go into management, and those who stay behind to do a technical supervisory role are seen as lesser. I disagree with this practice.
RE: Who is responsible for ceiling drywall cracks?
RE: Who is responsible for ceiling drywall cracks?
RE: Who is responsible for ceiling drywall cracks?