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Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

(OP)
I recently became a PE (passed the Oct exam, first attempt), and as promised, got a promotion and raise.  I feel like the raise was smaller than it should have been but I don't have much basis of comparison.  Anyone have any feedback on compensation once you earned your PE license?  I know salaries vary regionally so percent increase is probably more helpful.  My increase was 4%.  I'm just trying to  figure out if I need to go to my boss and ask for more $$.  Thanks for any input.

RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

The private sector can range wildly.  I have seen from 7% all the way up to 20% once a colleage obtained his/her PE license.  It really depends on several factors such as company policy, your new billing rate and your company's multiplier which affects your max annual salary vs what you bill out at.  Maybe after the 4% you've maxed out what your company can pay you annually and also cover non-billable staff all other overhead costs at your billing rate.  Most company multipliers (that I know of) range from 2.2 to 3.0.  Maybe they'll tell you what theirs is and you can see if there is room for a higher salary.

In governement, you can expect a range from 3% to 7%. I was working for a Utility when I obtained my PE and got a 5% raise.

Good luck!

RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

It really depends on a number of factors.  How many years of experience do you have and what are they paying now (prior to passing your PE).  Stuctural Engineer magazine publishes annually a compensation report.  You can find it on the web by seaching through their archives.  Congratulations on passing the exam; you and your family should be proud of that accomplishment!

woodengineer

RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

"Whet happened when you became a PE?"

38 more years of work and study.

RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

Had something similiar happen. First time when the PE exam was passed. Nothing happened. Second time when the MBA was received. Again, nothing happened.

Congrats to you.

RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?


.

How much you get paid also depends on how well your company is doing financially and how much you are directly contributing to this. Some employers may want to pay you more (unbelievable I know), but are unable to reasonably do so if the company isn't pulling in enough money. Regardless, your engineering license will serve you well as your career progresses.

.

tsgrue: site engineering, stormwater
management, landscape design, ecosystem
rehabilitation, mathematical simulation
http://hhwq.blogspot.com

RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

Whether or not you can ask for more money depends on whether or not your job has changed.  If getting the PE meant you got a certificate to stick on the wall then probably not.  If you're now stamping drawings and relieving other PEs and have taken on a lot more responsibility and are more marketable then you can.

RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

Would have to disagree with the posts on salaries and responsibilities as they are disagree with fundamental concepts taught in organizational behavior as well as economics courses.

Your value to the company is what the boss perceives the value to be, not what you are actually doing, what your responsiblities are, or whatever qualifications you may have.

If you think you are worth more than what the company pays, then you must market yourself to a new position or a new salary.

It is like the ballplayer getting $80 million over 7 years. The ballplayer is worth it because he can get it, notwithstanding whatever attributes that he may have.

I would add that most companies base their salary structure on employee turnover. Employee turnover is the percentage of employees leaving the firm yearly. For that reason, all companies monitor and track employee turnover. If the employee turnover increases, the company will increase the base salary structure. If the turnover is low, the base structure will not increase.  The cost of living is not really factored into annual raises, unless it is contractual or it is used as an excuse.

RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

That is hard to say, on the surface 4% seems a bit low to me, but it depends what you are doing for your company.

The two things I would look at right of the bat is your multiplier and your utilization.  Find out how much you are billed to clients for, say $90/hr, then divide by your hourly rate.  2.8 to 3.2 is what most companies shoot for.

Also, in terms of your utilization, determine what that percentage is.  If you can maintain about 80%, that is 80% of your hours go to actual billable hours, that is considered pretty good.  (Billable hours exclude overhead like marketing, general admin, etc)

If your multiplier is above 3.2, and your utilization is above 80%, then in my opinion you are being taken advantage of.

Another question, have you ever brought in clients for your work.  My guess is probably not if your just passing your PE (that's not intened as a cut, you're probably busier doing real work than marketing)  If you can bring in work though, you certainly have more legs to stand on.


That being said, in the private sector being with a company and doing your job doesn't necessarily entitle you to raises.  That's been my experience anyway, and it took me a good while to come to grips with that.  I've found that if you want a raise you really have to fight for it.  Keep a log of what you've done for the company, all you accomplishments, etc, and use that info when seeking more money.

Last thing, as I climb down of my soapbox.  It is sometimes easier to negotiate a raise with another company, than with the one you work for.  Don't be affraid to move or look around.  Good luck.

RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

When you say, "as promised", was there ever a dollar figure associated with the increase upon becoming a PE?  I agree with the posters who the say the increase is dependent on what the PE means to the company you work for.  At my then-employer, it meant a little more credibility for my department (Look, the Construction Dept has a real PE!), but no real value, as I was not designing or stamping.  I did get a new title, business cards and a small raise.  And they let me have the day off to take the exam. It was in line with my expectations.
What were you hoping for?

RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

I had been low balled for years at the same company.  When I finally passed I got the standard $2.00 raise which amounted to a 10% raise.  I was very billable and they dicked around getting my stamp.  So I then left soon after for another job which gave me another 15%.  25% is not bad for a years increase but you'll have to job hop to do it.

RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

Shop around, find a firm willing to pay the rate you desire, approach your current management with a request for a substancial raise, after being denied the request, leave and go to the other firm.  This is "Standard Operating Precedure".

RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

(OP)
Thanks everyone for all the feedback.  To respond to some of the points made:
1)My current multiplier is 3.4 so based on what some of you have said, that is on the high side.
2)My utilization is one of the highest in an office of 70 people at around 92%(I keep pretty busy)
3)My job responsibilities haven't changed dramatically since gaining my license, however, I've been gradually taking on more responsibility in terms of project design and more direct interaction with clients.
4)I'm on a team of 7 people, three of which (including myself) are PEs.  Two PEs left our team and company in the last two months, and the other two left, besides myself, are the team leader and a senior program manager, both with very high billing rates.  So I'm the only PE on our team in a production role.

Well, anyway, thanks everyone for all the feedback.  This is a great forum.  I think I'm in a good position and I've got nothing to lose by having a little talk with the boss.  Can't hurt to ask right?

RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

Yes well, looks like they are getting a pretty good deal in you.

Couple of other things.  First off, determine how your company is billing the work.  If it is hourly, then the utilization and multiplier can be directly correlated to what you make.

Lots of contracts are fixed fee however.  In other words, you may be utilized at 90% (because that is how you fill out your timecard right?), and multiplier maybe 3.4, but how much of that is written off by the manager each month?  (Are you salary or hourly?  And how many hours do you work each week on average?)  Again if you are working 40+ hours billable, and they are charging you on an hourly basis, they are making a killing off you.

Also, don't forget to factor in bonuses if you are getting them, IE xmas, quarterly or spot bonuses?  If they are, don't forget to factor that in as well.  If they are giving you a gift certificate for a smoked ham and $50 spot to go to the movies, well, sweet deal for them right?

How about the 401k matching, or an ESOP?  Are they run of the mill or do they give a good chunk for that?  Matching contributions are free money, and should be factored.  Don't forget to look at your vesting schedule (100% in 6 years standard, but who sticks around 6 years when they are underpaying to begin with)

Are you married with kids?  I just started to learn how much health care runs to add dependents.  When your in your 20's and single and healthy, who cares right?  

How about a vehicle allowance or company car?  If they are just reimbursing your mileage at $0.39 or $0.42 per mile.  It seems like a lot, but it's actually a ripoff for you factoring in maintenance, insurance, etc.

Anyway, I would be a little more resolute on just 'asking' for a raise, then saying 'aw shucks' when they say no with a 2 hour answer on how much they like you.  The less a manager can pay you the better it is for thier numbers.  Younger engineers are taken advantage of like that, until you become old and crusty and return the favor to the newbs.

Best not to be affraid to move and mean it.  Don't get caught up in this loyalty thing or personal commitment to your collegues.  This is business, and you're a chump if you allow yourself to be paid less than the market will bear.  

Last thing, if you negotiate with another company, don't play the game of playing the two companies off eachother..it will only generate ill will and they might just give in to buy time to replace you.  Ask for your raise, if they say no, be polite, then seek another job.




RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

4% is a cost of living adjustment, not a promotion.  you should have got 10 - 20%.  plus, many companies also have a one time bonus which is usually a couple thousand dollars they hand you once you pass the test.

RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

I have a couple of comments:

Your company's multiplier is a 3.4???  Ouch.  I have been through two Zweig White "consulting" events at 2 separate civil firms and according to them a 3.4 is considered very, very high. That hurt's your max. possibly salary under your billing rate.

It's a little disconcerting to hear that you are tops in the company at 92% (kudos for you though!)...to me that helps explains the 3.4 multiplier.  It also may explain the measly (to me at least) 4% raise.

Let us know how it works out.  Good Luck!

RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

I think the above post has it backwards.  A 3.4 muliplier means they are charging him out at over 3 times what they are paying him in salary.  The higher the multiplier, the more the company makes in terms of what they charge the employee out at.

RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

I think that the interpretation of the above poster was that the company-wide multiplier was 3.4, which would indicate a company with a lot of overhead to cover. To remain competitive against companies with lower global multipliers, staff would be paid on the low end.

RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

Yes you might be right, perhaps it was just high overhead for the company.  

Or, if a person was cynical, perhaps the high multiplier is so the owner and/or upper managment can get that really special closed door bonus, then buy their 16 y/o daughter that Lexus convertable she so deserves :)

RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

What did I get?  A new business card.

RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

lol bigh. at least when i got a new business card with mine, i was smart/wise enough to not include my mobile number on the back next to our office number (when i took my first engineer job, i included the mobile number thinking: "well, at least everyone will be able to contact me if they need me"). maybe the piece of paper on the wall does make you a little smarter...or maybe it just makes you more aware of how dumb/naive you were when you first started.

i was able to move out of the cubicle in to a smaller office...at least i can shut the door now and see something other than just walls.

RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

Although passing the P.E. exam is a major achievement for the individual, it does not immediately increase your value to the company very much.  You are not suddenly 20% more productive or marketable for the firm.

It might merit a short press release blurb in a trade publication, but the firm is not going to start featuring your resume in RFP's because you have the letters "P.E." behind your name.  A token raise of 5% and/or a bonus of a few thousand dollars seems reasonable.

One company I know of actually has a tradition of having the new P.E.'s take the older engineers out to lunch as a way of showing appreciation for the mentorship that helped the young engineer pass the exam.  After that, the new P.E. receives a raise and bonus that more than cover the expense of the lunch.

RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

few thousand bucks as a bonus??? i'll take that considering i'm 90+% billable plus doing much much more than my fair share to bring in loads of profitable revenue. after i got my p.e., my billable rate went up a good bit but utils didn't go down. you guys hiring by any chance?

RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

Vt, I am in the same deal as you (Oct PE myself) and was at 12% and still felt confused - thought it was more.

RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

PE value to a company can mean a lot and don't let anybody tell you otherwise.  Most companies treat somebody that receives a PE quite well with bonus and promotion.  If you don't get this, than either a) they don't need you (to be registered) or b) they are lowballing you; and either way you should be working at a company that is willing to pay what you deserve.

RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

unfortunatly loyalty gets you no where if your after money.

RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

Something you may want to consider is how the 4% compares to what you've been seeing for annual salary adjustments.  If it's been around 4%, you've just got yourself another year.



RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

VTBonnie:

I hope you put a final entry in this post and let us know how it turned out.  I've taken a vicarious interest in knowing what happened.

RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

(OP)
My annual "cost of living" increase this year was also 4%.  Additionally, since I began this thread, I was given a $1000 spot bonus for getting the PE license.  So now the 4% raise doesn't feel quite as low.  I still feel like the raise accompanying a promotion should be more than what I get for just being here another year.  I'll make sure to post the results of my conversation with the boss lady.

RE: Whet happened when you became a PE? Promotion? Raise?

you weren't hired as a PE, so unless your bosses die I don't see much more pay.  If I were you I'd stay at least a year.  Most people who look at resume's for CE's are ignorant human resources people, and so just market yourself as "an experienced PE" and you may get 15-20K more in your next job.

cheers,
Jeff
http://www.civiltips.com

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