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"Where to?"

"Where to?"

"Where to?"

(OP)
I don't mean "Where are we going to, I mean, "Where's the "to"?"
This is a quote from an article:

Quote:

He's written former U.S. vice-president Al Gore, Virgin Group founder and billionaire Richard Branson and John Doerr at venture capital powerhouse Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers.

Is this another of those trans-Atlantic problems?

Surely (don't keep calling me Shirley") that should be:
"He's written to former U.S. vice...."

There is no "to" in "He's written a novel." but in this context the more complete statement would be: "He's written a letter to former vice-president..."

(By the way, where's the "Preview Post" button gone?)

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: "Where to?"

Preview post is still here for response.  I think it may be gone for new posts because the system now automatically forces you into preview for a new post as you probably discovered.

Ted Striker: Surely you can't be serious.
Rumack: I am serious... and don't call me Shirley.

Rumack: You'd better tell the Captain we've got to land as soon as we can. This woman has to be gotten to a hospital.
Elaine Dickinson: A hospital? What is it?
Rumack: It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.

Elaine Dickinson: You got a letter from headquarters this morning.
Ted Striker: What is it?
Elaine Dickinson: It's a big building where generals meet, but that's not important.


Steve McCroskey: Johnny, what can you make out of this?
[Hands him the weather briefing]
Johnny: This? Why, I can make a hat or a brooch or a pterodactyl...

Elaine Dickinson: There's no reason to become alarmed, and we hope you'll enjoy the rest of your flight. By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?

Elaine Dickinson: You got a letter from headquarters this morning.
Ted Striker: What is it?
Elaine Dickinson: It's a big building where generals meet, but that's not important.

Captain Oveur: [Captain Oveur is in the middle of a phone call with the Mayo Clinic when an operator tells him that there's an emergency call on Line 5 from Mr. Hamm] All right, get me Hamm on five; hold the Mayo.

Rex Kramer: (points out the window) There he is. Striker, you're coming in too fast.
Ted Striker: I know, I know.
Elaine Dickinson: He knows, he knows.

[Elaine is relaying what Ted is saying to Kramer]
Ted Striker: It's a damn good thing he doesn't know how much I hate his guts.
Elaine Dickinson: It's a damn good thing you don't know how much he hates your guts.

Rex Kramer: Don't be a fool, Striker, you know what a landing like this means, you more than anybody. I'm ordering you to stay up there.
Ted Striker: No dice, Chicago. I'm giving the orders and we're coming in. I guess the foot's on the other hand now, isn't it Kramer?

http://imdb.com/title/tt0080339/quotes
Sorry... but you're the one who started it.
Now, back to grammar...

=====================================
Eng-tips forums: The best place on the web for engineering discussions.

RE: "Where to?"

I think it is a transatlantic thing - it used to annoy me whenever I visited the States and turned the News on - but I don't seem to notice it so much these days.

When I saw the title, I thought this was going to be a thread about Brsl (an English dialect in which it's normal to ask "Where are we to then?")

A.

RE: "Where to?"

He's emailed former ...
He's phoned former ...
He's called former ...
He's faxed former ...
He's text-messaged former ...
He's contacted former ...
He's written former ...

Sounds OK to me.

cheers

RE: "Where to?"

He's emailed an attachment....
He's phoned an order...
He's faxed his details...

When I were a lad, all of these verbs would have (if they'd all been invented then) taken an explicit dative - "... to former...."

He's called Shirley...
and
He's contacted former ...

are different, in that the object of the verb is the person contacted, rather than the thing sent.

I'm not sure which of these classes

He's text-messaged ...

falls into, but I'm pretty sure

He's written a long whiney letter ...

deserves a dative.

A.

RE: "Where to?"

Reminds me of a common expression in Malaysia/Singapore.  They say "Where got?" meaning "I didn't get what you supposedly said you'd given to me".  It is a two word question that replaces a long statement.

RE: "Where to?"

If I have written Bill Gates it should mean the words Bill Gates are on the paper. If I have written to Bill Gates it means he is the intended ricipient of the letter.

I thought from the title that this was going to a question about whither, hither, and thither.

RE: "Where to?"

I think it's a transatlantic thing.  To me the sentance sounds incorrect, at least at first read.  However, we all know how bad my English can be.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: "Where to?"

It is more common for indirect objects to travel in the company of direct objects (as in "I wrote him a letter"), but it's not necessary.

That said, my personal preference is to use "to" after write.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: "Where to?"

The "to" should be there. It is an incomplete sentence without it.
I also have a problem with the contraction. Is "He's", "He is", or "He has"? Context indicates it is "He has" but the lack of clarity is still there.
Speaking colloquially is one thing, but writing that way, if your not writing for effect...?
 I sympathize and agree ith Henry Higgins.


RE: "Where to?"

The rain in spain...

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: "Where to?"

Oops, Spain

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: "Where to?"

I am not sure why we are debating how to form the direct object and indirect object of a verb before learning to spell the word sentence.

Before anybody gets upset by that remark, please notice my spelling of recipient in my previous posting!

In language, if a mistake gets repeated often enough, and by enough people then it becomes correct. In maths and science that isn't the case. We can't make the world flat just by saying that it is.

I know a guy that still uses amn't I for am I not, whereas most people I know use aren't I. Who's right? I guess he is. But I'm not going to change!


Speaking colloquially is one thing, but writing that way, if your not writing for effect...?
You're - I make the same typing error myself, frequently. The fingers on the keyboard repeat their familiar patterns.

RE: "Where to?"

I have never seen nor heard, the term amn't I.

cheers

RE: "Where to?"

OK Crystal, so at least half the people on here (certainly I) perhaps have no right to point out the speck of dust in others proverbial spelling/grammar eye.

However, if we went strictly by the 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone' then as none of us are perfect all the time then imagine how bad things would get if mistakes/inconsistencies (whatever you like to call them) weren't pointed out.

This is starting to veer into the territory of my post the other they on there, their, they're.

Anyway, to try and get it right next timewinky smile:

Sentence, sentence, sentence, sentence…

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: "Where to?"

they - day

What the ()*^&)*(&

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: "Where to?"

Thanks Crystal, for your correction of my your to you're. You're correct.

RE: "Where to?"

I don't believe it's fair to call it a trans-Atlantic issue, since there are countries on the west side that like British English. And if were to write the words "Bill Gates", I'd use quotation marks to show exactly what was written. All of CorBlimeyLimey's examples sound fine to me. I've tried and tried, and I just can't get Al into the envelope, fax machine, or scanner for emailing.  
 

RE: "Where to?"

"amn't I" is one I have heard of, and it is grammatically correct. In colloquial English I have much more often heard "aren't I" which is just plain silly, or of course where I grew up "bain't Oi", which is pure comedy.

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: "Where to?"

Sorry for hijacking the thread a little. What is the origin of ain't I? Could it be a version of amn't I that is easier to get your tongue around?

As Greg says, aren't I is just plain silly, but that's what I was brought up saying. "I'm not sleepy, and there ain't no place I'm going to" sang Bob Dylan, with his excellant command of English using a double negative for emphasis. English teachers don't like it, and copyright only lasts a certain length of time. So if you buy a copy now you probably get a new song with "is no place I'm going to".

Walt Disney have released a new DVD which is like the old Jungle Book. A friend bought it. The singing is not so good and it doesn't have the voice of The Beatles' Ringo Starr as one of the vultures, but it probably renews their copyright by being a different work of art and saves them on royalties.

Marc Bolan's "brown tastes fine, brown tastes good, everybody says it's just like Robin Hood" is also tamed down on modern releases by what I think is a copy paste of a later different version of the chorus: "friends say it's fine, friends say it's good, everybody says it's just like rock and roll".

It could be that it was a version originally tamed down for airplay on the radio to make it palletable to the general public in the days when John Lennon had to lie and put "mastication" on the lyric sheet of Give Peace a Chance in order for it be broadcast.

Maybe I should bring this back on topic: deletion of unnecessary tos. I propose that to start a new copyright expiry countdown, Bob Dylan sales should consist of a new song Mr Tangerine-man with the lyrics
"I'm not sleepy and there isn't no place I'm going   !"

RE: "Where to?"

I'm under the impression that once uppon a time 'aint' was considered proper 'Queens/Kings English'.

However this is based almost entirely on films where some member of nobility or similar uses the word a lot.  I'm thinking something where they're all wearing powdered wigs.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: "Where to?"

If by "grammatically correct" you mean "found in grammar textbooks", then I don't think you can claim that amn't, however logical, is grammatically correct.

If we're going to step outside the bounds of grammar textbooks, then "ain't" is just as valid as "amn't".

hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: "Where to?"

We get the nightmarish mirror image of this here in South Wales, with an extra "to" often being added where it is superfluous.
e.g.
"Where to is my jacket"
"Where to are my keys"

At least we now  know where (to) the missing US "to" is going. Now all we need is to figure out how to get them back over to the states.

RE: "Where to?"

The american language is born from such errors as these.

RE: "Where to?"

Why do people keep assuming that when the English-speaking population scattered around the world, it stayed the same on that one island and it's everyone else who changed?

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: "Where to?"

Good point HGTX,

English is a mongrel of a language anyway a bit of german, a bit of french, a bit of norwegian all mixed in for good measure.

RE: "Where to?"

At HgTX:
I read an interesting book called "Albion's Seed" about the spread of English-speakers across the globe.  The book talks a little about dialects.  

It is apparently a principle of linguistics that the colonies maintained their dialect very close to the home country dialect at the time they emigrated.  The reasoning was that the home country dialect changed more over time because the colonies were more concerned about maintaining their "Englishness" and held more to the old dialect.  

Thus the Australian dialect is close to the way English was spoken in England in the late 17th century, the American South is close to the way English was spoken in England in the late 16th century (specifically Virginia where the Cavaliers tended to settle), etc.

RE: "Where to?"

jgailla, one thought.  The English Dialects vary significantly throughout England and the rest of Great Britain & Ireland.  Someone from the SouthWest sounds Very different to someone from Newcastle for example, to the point that I've had trouble comprehending people from both places even though my family has roots in both areas.

So which English Dialect is English?  While common to think of Queens English this isn't actually spoken, or to some extent written, by the majority of the population (at least historically as I understand it).

I have heard examples where the dialect of a certain colony follows the dialect of a specific part of England that they came from but I can't recal the details.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: "Where to?"

Good point KENAT.  It is (or used to be) the same way in America.  Upstate South Carolina is different from coastal, and there is more language similarity between the mountains of North Carolina and West Virginia (don't say hillbillies, we call them Apppalachian-Americans) than between central and mountain NC.

RE: "Where to?"

KENAT, it seems reasonable that 'English' English should be the Queen's English, as spoken by the Queen. This line of argument may cause some problems for the Danes in a few years though, considering that the Crown Prince of Denmark married an Australian...

I've always thought of the lack of 'to' regardless of the sole object in the sentence being the indirect as an Americanism, but I've no conclusive reason for that. Similarly, I would talk to someone, not talk with them.

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