GLARE composites
GLARE composites
(OP)
Can anyone share specific construction techniques using GLARE composite, such as aluminum thickness, epoxy type, glass type, radius limitations, or something else I am not thinking of?
If someone were to design a new plans-built type aircraft using state of the art materials now, like GLARE, what factors might prevent or hinder someone from working up a GLARE composite structure in their garage workshop?
If someone were to design a new plans-built type aircraft using state of the art materials now, like GLARE, what factors might prevent or hinder someone from working up a GLARE composite structure in their garage workshop?





RE: GLARE composites
One factor hindering, but not preventing, a fiber metal layup as a home built project, is the proper preparation of the metal parts of the layup. Aluminum is notorious for debonding at a later date from epoxy resin unless the surface preparation is meticulous.
Having the metal parts professionally cleaned and pre-coated may be a way around this limitation.
B.E.
RE: GLARE composites
i know that de havilland in toronto did a bunch of research on glare, including forming sheet into stringers. whilst they probably won't be too helpful (commercial secret) i'd've thought that aloca (or whoever makes/sells the stuff) would be intereted in helping you.
i believe it comes in 0.012" thk 2024 (or 7075) sheets with 0.008" thk glass fiber (so that a 2-1 sheet is 0.032" thick, and a 3-2 is 0.52" , ...).
why are you looking at this "exotic" material over plain sheet ?
good luck
RE: GLARE composites
B.E.
RE: GLARE composites
I just recently watched the old "The Rutan Composites" videotape starring Burt Rutan and Mike Melvill, from back in the 70's, and it occurred to me that leaps in the application of state of the art aviation technology happen in the garage, not at Boeing or Cessna. Not having worked with it before, I wanted to seek some opinion from those of you who have more experience hands on with GLARE. thanks for your input.
RE: GLARE composites
RE: GLARE composites
The Rutan Composites video, was made by them ,after watching the methods and techniques used by Manfred "Fred" Jiran at a sailplane repair shop on the same field, (Mojave airport) and realising that these same methods could be used to fabricate an aircraft as well as repair it.
B.E.
RE: GLARE composites
I attended an EAA meeting last night, there are quite a few builders in the area, mostly Vans, some Pitts, a Cozy, and a Sonex. I also discovered I can have access to a CNC water jet, or soon a laser, for next to nothing other than materials - so that is nice.
RB - that sounds like really thin aluminum. The thinnest I have found without really trying too hard is 0.016 2024T3 ALCLAD. Yeah it's expensive but a lot of people are using it. Maybe I can just glue together some recycled beer cans :>
RE: GLARE composites
RE: GLARE composites
RE: GLARE composites
RE: GLARE composites
ht
RE: GLARE composites
Could static electricity build up on the outer shell of aluminum until the voltage is sufficient to pass through the dielectric (fiberglass/epoxy) when I touch the wall from the interior of the plane? Of course a faraday cage protects the interior of an aero structure, but ....
I'll end with the ever prevalent aerospace engineering question:
What if...?
RE: GLARE composites
RE: GLARE composites
I work with Aluminum composite panels in a non aerospace application. When moving and working on these panels the static discharges, especially in dry weather can generate a spark sometimes an inch long in air.
Not to mention shocking the mover.
B.E.
RE: GLARE composites
GLARE, an aluminum / fiberglass sandwich, was invented at the Technical University of Delft in the Netherlands and it is now commercially supplied by Alcoa (I think). I may have some info on bending radii which I will post if I find it. GLARE is quite expensive however.
Try TU Delft website for papers on GLARE.
It is used on the new Airbus A380.
Regards
Andries
RE: GLARE composites
We used 0.010 thick aluminum formed using graphite as a lubricant between the dies to keep a uniform thickness while maintaining a constant temperature of the skins. After about a year of trail and error we got it right with the bond line. The next major problem was the auto clave and holding the part in place under vacuum while it cured.
Yes, the project did work, but we wasted a lot of money and man-hours working out the problems. I just can’t see how this process would be manageable for an experimental homebuilder with out the vast support of a clean room, chemicals, and auto clave to name a few to make it work. We also had a problem with the use of rivets damaging the bond lines by shop personnel with no experience with the new materials.
Having work with composites I know the importance of constant temperature, moisture levels and process specification that must be followed every time to make it work.
I know the GLARE materials are on several aircraft now flying and it works well, but I have to caution home builders on this one. I might suggest you contact your local FAA office and request assistance before you build something that may never be signed off even as an experimental.
RE: GLARE composites
This quote is from Design News:
"As with any material, however, there are always trade-offs. And in GLARE's case, it involves a loss of stiffness. The material has a flexural modulus that's 5 to 6 percent lower than a comparable aluminum sheet. That stiffness hit isn't a big deal within an individual structure, but it can shift loads to other parts of the airframe. "When you reduce the modulus of one structure, you often put a burden on other structures,"
This was the problem encountered when designing fiberglass composite aircraft. Designers had to add more glass than they needed to get the stiffness.
B.E.