Ethical Dilemma/Use of PE Stamp
Ethical Dilemma/Use of PE Stamp
(OP)
I am a licensed PE working for a municipality. We have roughly 90% drawings for a street reconstruction and stormwater separation project, which need some minor adjustments prior to being put out to bid. I've been asked by my boss to make the minor adjustments to the design and stamp the drawings prior to them being put out to bid.
My question: Is it ethical to stamp drawings which the lion's share of the work has been done by an outside consultant? This type of work is certainly in my area of expertise, having stamped similar projects in a previous life while working for a consultant. My thought is that if I complete a review of the design and make the modifications, then it should be ethical to stamp the drawings myself and not have to hire the consultant to complete and stamp the design.
Any feedback from either the private or public sector would be greatly appreciated.
My question: Is it ethical to stamp drawings which the lion's share of the work has been done by an outside consultant? This type of work is certainly in my area of expertise, having stamped similar projects in a previous life while working for a consultant. My thought is that if I complete a review of the design and make the modifications, then it should be ethical to stamp the drawings myself and not have to hire the consultant to complete and stamp the design.
Any feedback from either the private or public sector would be greatly appreciated.





RE: Ethical Dilemma/Use of PE Stamp
RE: Ethical Dilemma/Use of PE Stamp
David
RE: Ethical Dilemma/Use of PE Stamp
Engineers shall approve or seal only those design documents, reviewed or prepared by them, which are determined to be safe for public health and welfare in conformity with accepted engineering standards.
The key is: do you KNOW that it is safe? Did you review the entire package of drawings and specs?
RE: Ethical Dilemma/Use of PE Stamp
I don't remember the outcome. I think he won a Pyrrhic victory.
RE: Ethical Dilemma/Use of PE Stamp
You were absolutely correct in considering this to be, first, an ethical dilemma. To me, legal considerations come second.
RE: Ethical Dilemma/Use of PE Stamp
http://gostructural.com/article.asp?id=582
RE: Ethical Dilemma/Use of PE Stamp
RE: Ethical Dilemma/Use of PE Stamp
RE: Ethical Dilemma/Use of PE Stamp
I don't think that. In fact, the main focus of the US Constitution is protecting the people from government mis-use of power.
RE: Ethical Dilemma/Use of PE Stamp
1. I am under no pressure from my boss (also a licensed PE, but not overly familiar with the ins/outs of the project) to stamp the drawings. Just a suggestion that he made. Our city ordinance (might also be state/federal law) requires all work over $100k to be stamped, with this project being roughly $750k.
2. I've been on board a little over a year, and this project had been put on the shelf prior to my starting employment, and has since come back to life due to available funding. The consultant has completed the scope of work and to my knowledge has been paid for such services, which do not explicitly include stamped drawings or specs (which we do in-house) from what I read in the RFP.
3. The changes to the design resulted from a public meeting with there residents wanting sidewalks, granite curbing, etc., but no changes are being proposed to the roadway and drainage design to speak of.
I'm certainly not in the situation of the Turner case and if push comes to shove we will contact the consultant to stamp the changes we are proposing.
RE: Ethical Dilemma/Use of PE Stamp
RE: Ethical Dilemma/Use of PE Stamp
If your review to is to merely make sure that the exzisting utilituies are properly called out and upto date, there is no problem with adding a limitation in writing beneath your stamp as to what you are approving. I have done tso in the past where I only was approving a lateral design and had no part in the gravity design. There is nothing wrong with this, wut you must limit your stamp and inform the EOR of the design changes.
Mike McCann
McCann Engineering
RE: Ethical Dilemma/Use of PE Stamp
RE: Ethical Dilemma/Use of PE Stamp
Don Phillips
http://worthingtonengineering.com
RE: Ethical Dilemma/Use of PE Stamp
Remember - you and maybe your city are now responsible... Do you really want that??
RE: Ethical Dilemma/Use of PE Stamp
RE: Ethical Dilemma/Use of PE Stamp
This reminds me of what happen to a firm I worked for at one time. An engineer screwed up a street project design for the local county. Before the project started the engineer ran for a seat on the county board. After winning the election the person pointed out the errors in the project design recommending that the county sue his former employer.
RE: Ethical Dilemma/Use of PE Stamp
RE: Ethical Dilemma/Use of PE Stamp
This goes contrary to what I've always understood to be the fact that there must be a single overall engineer-of-record on a project.
There can be other engineers who seal parts of the design, but only "under" the EOR and only if that portion of the project is directed by the EOR to be engineered by others.
RE: Ethical Dilemma/Use of PE Stamp
Obviously the cleanest from all perspectives is to have the original engineer incorporate the changes. The supervisor's request sounds like a move to save a few bucks.
RE: Ethical Dilemma/Use of PE Stamp
Ken
Ken
KE5DFR
RE: Ethical Dilemma/Use of PE Stamp
But the original post was about one discipline and with that, you would normally just have one seal, not two.
The only time you'd have more than one is if one engineer did one part of the project (i.e. the main building) and the other engineer did something else (the separate garage).
RE: Ethical Dilemma/Use of PE Stamp
Note that Texas rules have prohibited the review-and-stamp for a number of years.
RE: Ethical Dilemma/Use of PE Stamp
Check with the governing board in the state in which you reside.
In Arizona no person may alter a registrant's sealed professional document except under the following circumstance:
Another registrant may, when employed to check the documents, modify the documents. However, the registrant shall clearly delineate all modifications, seal those changes, and be fully responsible for the changes made and the impact of those changes on the original design.
Best regards, registeredpe in AZ