What to do...
What to do...
(OP)
I've been at my current job 6 months.
I started at lower pay (over $10k lower) than my last job but was promised a $3k raise after 6 months, which was last week. I'm in a high unemployment area and was basically desperate for work.
I have 7 yrs experience in my field - I have no trouble doing the work. Just before Christmas, the company was sold by the owners and bought by a mega-conglomerate in the business. Several of us think that they bought us for "parts" and that they'll likely close us down within the next 6 months or so, so job security is not something I have right now.
I was hired because I can get my P.E. anytime - but I've typically worked in manufacturing so it's never been a big rush for me to get it. This boss seemed pretty excited when he learned I could get it quickly and said that would be something to think about "in the future".
Since the buyout, I've decided it's in my best interest to get the PE so I printed off the paperwork and signed up for the April exam. My boss found the paperwork on the printer, which I did purposely, so I know he knows I'm taking the exam.
I had a 6 mo. review last week. My offer letter promised me the $3k raise "after 6 months, provided I made suitable progress in the position". I've learned it all very quickly and with less than 4 days of overlap with the last person, I feel as though I've covered his leaving very well. Almost too well - things haven't slowed down here over the winter as they usually would so I've been working my tail off to keep up.
I work with several people who are called "application engineers" even though they don't have an engineering degree. Two have been promoted into the department in the last six months; one from estimating (he was formerly a glass installer) and one from order entry. The glass installer is now our "Large Projects Coordinator". He asks me how to do every facet of his job on a daily basis. The other guy hasn't learned anything in the 2 months he's been in this department, and 2 weeks ago my boss asked me why I hadn't trained him yet in what I do, so he could help with the overflow. I didn't realize I was supposed to train him. I have a MSCE and this company has pretty much everyone doing the structural calcs as "overflow".
Anyway, long story, but I had my review and it didn't go well. I scored a 70.5 on his scale and 71 was the lowest number for "meets expecatations", so he considers me high on the "occasionally does not meet expectations" list.
All of my technical scores were 3's and 4's (out of 5) but he rated me a "2" on several personality-based rankings. He mentioned in his comments that I "occasionally become short with co-workers, especially when the workload seems heavy". I said, since starting, there has not been a moment when my in-box has been empty and though I occasionally struggle to keep up, I felt I'd been doing a good job. His answer was that I should be mentoring my coworkers (a couple of them have been here 2+ years, other than the 2 new people I mentioned) and when I answered "I didn't realized I was supposed to be mentoring people who'd been here longer than me" he brought up the fact that I signed up for the PE test and asked if I was leaving the company.
I said I had no plans to leave, but with new ownership I felt it was in my best interest to make myself as marketable as possible.
Now, this morning, I found out that he printed out the contents of my email inbox at 7:08 a.m., I arrive at 8. I feel like he's singling me out, possibly trying to get rid of me. I am the only person in the company with my Master's degree, and I'm now at the top of my payscale for the position I'm in.
Any suggestions how to handle this situation?
I started at lower pay (over $10k lower) than my last job but was promised a $3k raise after 6 months, which was last week. I'm in a high unemployment area and was basically desperate for work.
I have 7 yrs experience in my field - I have no trouble doing the work. Just before Christmas, the company was sold by the owners and bought by a mega-conglomerate in the business. Several of us think that they bought us for "parts" and that they'll likely close us down within the next 6 months or so, so job security is not something I have right now.
I was hired because I can get my P.E. anytime - but I've typically worked in manufacturing so it's never been a big rush for me to get it. This boss seemed pretty excited when he learned I could get it quickly and said that would be something to think about "in the future".
Since the buyout, I've decided it's in my best interest to get the PE so I printed off the paperwork and signed up for the April exam. My boss found the paperwork on the printer, which I did purposely, so I know he knows I'm taking the exam.
I had a 6 mo. review last week. My offer letter promised me the $3k raise "after 6 months, provided I made suitable progress in the position". I've learned it all very quickly and with less than 4 days of overlap with the last person, I feel as though I've covered his leaving very well. Almost too well - things haven't slowed down here over the winter as they usually would so I've been working my tail off to keep up.
I work with several people who are called "application engineers" even though they don't have an engineering degree. Two have been promoted into the department in the last six months; one from estimating (he was formerly a glass installer) and one from order entry. The glass installer is now our "Large Projects Coordinator". He asks me how to do every facet of his job on a daily basis. The other guy hasn't learned anything in the 2 months he's been in this department, and 2 weeks ago my boss asked me why I hadn't trained him yet in what I do, so he could help with the overflow. I didn't realize I was supposed to train him. I have a MSCE and this company has pretty much everyone doing the structural calcs as "overflow".
Anyway, long story, but I had my review and it didn't go well. I scored a 70.5 on his scale and 71 was the lowest number for "meets expecatations", so he considers me high on the "occasionally does not meet expectations" list.
All of my technical scores were 3's and 4's (out of 5) but he rated me a "2" on several personality-based rankings. He mentioned in his comments that I "occasionally become short with co-workers, especially when the workload seems heavy". I said, since starting, there has not been a moment when my in-box has been empty and though I occasionally struggle to keep up, I felt I'd been doing a good job. His answer was that I should be mentoring my coworkers (a couple of them have been here 2+ years, other than the 2 new people I mentioned) and when I answered "I didn't realized I was supposed to be mentoring people who'd been here longer than me" he brought up the fact that I signed up for the PE test and asked if I was leaving the company.
I said I had no plans to leave, but with new ownership I felt it was in my best interest to make myself as marketable as possible.
Now, this morning, I found out that he printed out the contents of my email inbox at 7:08 a.m., I arrive at 8. I feel like he's singling me out, possibly trying to get rid of me. I am the only person in the company with my Master's degree, and I'm now at the top of my payscale for the position I'm in.
Any suggestions how to handle this situation?





RE: What to do...
In the meantime... Don't be intimidated here with your boss. Be kind, but firm in your convictions. Don't give him what he wants - excuses. And...inspite of the situation, don't burn your bridges as you will probably have to use your current place of employment as a reference.
There is an area in this forum to go to where you can place your resume, or answer job applications in other areas of the country. Check it out. Sometimes you have to make your own breaks.
And... Do study and take that PE before it gets any later in life. Further delay only hurts you in the long run.
Good luck.
Mike McCann
McCann Engineering
RE: What to do...
RE: What to do...
"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."
Have you read FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: What to do...
Get a better boss. Start NOW.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: What to do...
If you were here you would be eligible for $$$ in compensation! (or at least £££'s)
Good luck in your new job....or retirement!
Cheers
Harry
RE: What to do...
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: What to do...
Mike McCann
McCann Engineering
RE: What to do...
Years ago, I went through a 360 Feedback program where surveys were given to direct reports, peers, and upper management, the data analyzed, and a wonderful report given to me that gave me not only my hidden strengths but hidden weaknesses call blind spots. Perhaps the review could have gone better if the supervisor gave you real examples or behaviour observed. Generalities about someone's blindspot really pisses people off.
Don Phillips
http://worthingtonengineering.com
RE: What to do...
The boss has failed to provide enough help to deal with the workload.
The boss has failed to provide competent help.
The boss has failed to communicate his expectation that Mary will 'train' the help.
The boss has failed to appreciate that engineers are not authorized, trained, equipped, or able to turn technicians into engineers in a matter of months, or ever, even working full time at it.
The BOSS has failed.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: What to do...
RE: What to do...
I agree with the other posts. There is no salvaging of the situation. Your boss appears to have an agenda that is inconsistent with your well-being.
TTFN
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RE: What to do...
How some of these a****oles can become managers is one of the great mysteries of the world.
Because it is a real world, he would rather see the company die than do the right thing and he will get away with it.
You might hope he gets hit by a bus, gets found out by his boss and canned himself etc etc but in reality he will probably get a big bonus.
Document everything yourself. You never know, he may over step the line so he can does expose the company to legal action and don't be shy about getting some professional advice.
There is a risk that when you apply for another job this a******le is going to stay within the letter of the law but give as damming a reference as he can.
It would be nice for you to get a job description and this last I assume you don't have and never have had... asking for it may tip your hand, so don't do anything overt until you are ready to go.
I guess there is nothing to stop this guy showing you the door any time he likes so I guess he just likes to play cat and mouse.
Did you get it in writing?
These deals always stink. Consider, if you don't meet standards in 6 months they can always fire you. If you do then you have worked 6 months at an inferior salary. Why can't why just give you the money up front? They have nothing to lose.... unless they never intend to honour this deal anyway. Plus, of course, even if you do work your socks off and qualify they can always weasel out with some excuse anyway. When you first join a company is when you have the greatest bargaining power and you should use it. The longer you stay the more secure they are in paying below the market rate and deals such as this are a con.
Even though you want to get out of here fast, make sure you negotiate a good pay deal next time round and try to get a fair deal for yourself.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: What to do...
Good luck and regards,
RE: What to do...
Regards,
Namdac
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RE: What to do...
In any upfront dispute your higher mgmt will have to side your boss only even if you may be right. Big fish always eats small fish.
So you know where you stand now. I concur with the advice stated above.
In my starting job I had taken hell of a brunt from general manager just because talking very friendly to his secretary(who he was trying after) pissed him badly. Even though my lead, group manager and director above the GM were appreciative to me. None of them could stop the harassment he dragged onto me. Nothing particular about the work at all anytime. Just drove me crazy like anything. But I am still very greatful to the seniors and colleagues who supported and guided most of the time. I left when I got a good break.
Naturally there are boss's who have their own likes and dislikes and in varying magnitude it may affect to everybody's career somehow.
As you say unemployability in your area is higher so may be thats giving your boss abnormal powers to play around. As everybody said PLAY SAFE and exit without burning bridges when the first good opportunity knocks. You know you are playing with fire working in unregulated uncontrolled incompetent workplace.
Best regards and Good Luck.
Siddharth
These are my personal views/opinions and not of my employer's.
RE: What to do...
You might want to look at moving to another part of the country where demand for engineers is higher.
One thing I have found is that no matter how high the unemployment is, there always are companies looking for good workers. You sound like a dedicated hard worker, and I am sure that there are a lot of companies out there looking for someone like yourself.
RE: What to do...
RE: What to do...
I know I would fight tooth and nail to keep an employee like that.
RE: What to do...
A good question but there speaks an engineer: rational and logical.
Management are not rational or logical animals. Remember the scorpion and the frog story.
They are often spiteful petty minded vindictive a****les and they could care less if what they do damages the company They can always get another and often better paid job when necessary They lead charmed lives.
To be fair, I suspect they are probably more rare in decision sensitive companies (I'm sorry to say I seem to have worked mostly in decision insensitive companies so I rely on you guys to say how universal it really is).
A reasonable test is to look around and see just how many of your fellow employees you would sack if you were boss:
the slackers, brown-nosers, backstabbers, incompetents, timeservers, luddites etc.
What you may notice is they form a high proportion of the employees and they are employed not because the company is a charitable institution but because none of these is a threat to the manager.
Watch who stays and who goes when they have a "rationalisation", "restructuring" or "downsizing".
See who is expendable and it will be those who are threat to the manager; the smart hard working ones who are an asset to the company. Actually they are not only a threat to the managers but they are also resented by fellow employees because they show up the other "workers" and can threaten the status quo.
One exception I witnessed was an employee so bad he transitioned from not being a threat to his boss into being a positive liability and when redundancies came round his manager was determined he should stay, be denied any chance at redundancy pay just so the manager could steadily work his way through the disciplinary procedures and sack him without a penny.
Exceptions are family owned decision sensitive companies who often act as if they are decision insensitive. The owners family have all the senior positions (at above market rate) and no idea what they are doing. These are often quite feudal organisations.
But if you change jobs often enough you will hopefully get lucky and find your niche in some company where you will be appreciated. Or, you may have to start your own company some day (and then give all the best jobs to your family... but don't worry, about the time it all goes pear shaped you simply sell the company to a bigger company).
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: What to do...
The reason the slackers, brown-nosers, backstabbers, incompetents, timeservers, luddites etc are there is it is unbelievably difficult to find good quality hard working staff, hence my comment that I would fight tooth and nail to keep them. For every pointy haired boss there are many Wallys.
Trust me when I say we are not all spawn of the devil and laying off good people is the worst part of owning a company, fortunately I have only had to do it once. I guess the way I balance it and sleep at night is when good people leave me to join a larger organisation that offers better pay and career structure, there is little I can do about it, business is business and to keep that person would jeopardise the whole company, however that does not make it any easier.
Family members is an interesting observation, yes it does happen. However do we not all strive to do the best for our families? I am sure most people on here put there children through the best education they can afford, even if deep in their hearts they know others would work harder and make more of this opportunity, is this not the same thing?
Maybe larger companies are very different, but good engineers are hard to come by and I still struggle to see why a company would let them go for no good reason.
RE: What to do...
Of some of us aren't like that but the point is that just as you find it hard to find a complement of suitable employees and have to take the dross as well, so to do we find management comprised of the lower life forms.
I would guess Ajack1 that even though you recognise the need to employ a range of substandard employees that if you are yourself a good boss that you manage them for what they are and get the best you can pout them and that you will do all you can to make sure the few roses in your garden of weeds are contented.
You must allow, however, that this is not the reality for many companies. It is only to evident that not only are some of the lesser employees not managed to obtain the best from them that is possible but that they are indulged by poor managers while good honest workers are treated abysmally. It is simply a fact of life.
So too is the problem with small companies where family members can be a nightmare. Obviously also there are all types represented and i would be the first to want to find jobs for my family first and others second. In some companies and with some people this is a laudable intention and has good results. But we all know that in many cases the reality is far from ideal.
Thee is an old expression, a truism if you will, "Clogs to clogs in three generations." It simply means that the founder creates a healthy business and passes it over to the next generation who ruin it and by the third generation they are back to nothing again. Of course there are exceptions but they are the exceptions.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: What to do...
On the flip side there is a lot of work in other places, why not a change of scenery?
Good luck.
RE: What to do...
RE: What to do...
Unfortunately, I own a small business in this town (not engineering related) so I can't leave the area. I can't afford to not work full time yet. I live in Michigan, though, and we seriously are in the economic pits. There used to be a page of engineering jobs in the Sunday paper - now there are 3 or 4 jobs listed total.
This is the second place I've worked since graduating where the slackers seriously outnumber the workers. I think JMW is on the right track - my boss has a bachelor's of forestry, yet he's the engineering manager, and I think he's threatened by me. I'm the only person in my department that doesn't require being told every step of the way how to do their job. The person doing this job before me had no degree but 30 years of experience in the industry, and I know they didn't pay him as much as I'm making. They advertised my position in a much higher range than what I got, and when he asked what pay I'd require during my 2nd interview, and I mentioned what the advertised range was ($60-80k) his only comment was that he couldn't afford to pay me more than $50k. They bought the department a new plotter though, the week after I started, for about $10k. I figure he justified that plotter by dropping my salary by the same amount.
Now they are doing the same thing again - trying to hire a product development engineer by advertising the position at a high rate of pay. My guess is they won't offer the person nearly that much so I'll be curious to see if one of their two choices actually accepts the offer, or not. Unfortunately, it was either take this job or likely face foreclosure, so I went with the lesser of two evils. It's easy to say I should have negotiated for more but I really wansn't in a position to at the time.
About a month before the new company bought us, HR sent out a "census" form, asking for:
1. Name
2. Marital Status
3. Number of Dependent Children
4. Level of Completed formal education. If other, please identify
That was our first clue that something was going on. Most of that should be information they already have on us, based on our resume and what type of insurance we enrolled in (single, family, etc.) I think they had to provide that to the new owners, so I'm just hoping that my schooling keeps me here until I'm able to leave. It's a miserable way to spend your day, but any paycheck is better than none.
I'd like to try to hang on until March, when the transition takes place, because I think I'd be on firmer footings financially to be able to leave. Jan & Feb are really slow months at my other business. I don't want to give an ultimatum - more pay or I walk - because I think it would be a temporary solution for me - they'd view me as a liability and work to replace me. A year ago they "evaluated" payscales in the area and decided the estimators were making too much so they changed them over to hourly and ajusted their pay downward accordingly. They also took away vacation time this year. Because of the cruddy economy, they know they have us, or at least that they can replace us pretty easily. The turnover in other departments has been high - I'd say a good 1/3 of our customer service quit and was replaced last year.
I really think this new company bought us for our machinery, so in 6 months I may not have to worry about what to do - they could answer the question for me by shutting us down. Guess I should be thankful to be working, right?
I'm trying to get some additional part-time CAD work coming in so that I'm not dependent on this salary. I'd love to be able to say I want $60k a year or I'm gone, but I just can't yet.
RE: What to do...
TTFN
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RE: What to do...
RE: What to do...
RE: What to do...
Best of luck
RE: What to do...
"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."
Have you read FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: What to do...
If they appreciate and value your input, they will recognize you. A lot of this corporate appreciation has gone the way of the dodo bird. The companies are driven by accountants and lawyers looking only at the short term bottom line.
Ken
Ken
KE5DFR
RE: What to do...
With the bad economy, it sounds like this is a no brainer and you really have no choice but to move out of the area in spite of your small business if you want a better Engineering position.
Is this business one that you could restart in a new location, or special for the area?
Or is it your plan to eventually depend on this small business for all your income and abandon Engineering?
Mike McCann
McCann Engineering
RE: What to do...
2. Marital Status
3. Number of Dependent Children
I think they would fall under discrimination?
Questions 1 and 4 are related to work.
RE: What to do...
Back in December they announced they'd be doing random drug testing now (as if I could afford drugs, even if I wanted them!) and that they have the right to search you, your desk, your purse, any personal belongings you bring in, as well as your car. I would love to know if THAT is legal...
I really don't intend to stay here much longer. I am not a valuable employee to them or they would pay me at least the average wage for engineers (I'm in the 5th percentile, according to salary.com.)
Even if they offered to increase my salary now, knowing what kind of review my manager gave me and the fact that he feels I'm not doing an adequate job, I can't stay - he would just start searching for someone to replace me.
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I thought the US was fighting a war against dictatorships...
RE: What to do...
I have found that I have one of the higher starting pays of my friends in mechanical engineering it the area, and after getting another job offer and they would not match my current pay, I realized I needed to move.
RE: What to do...
Hg
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RE: What to do...
You could ask you boss for more detail on your job duties and maybe set goals with him for your next review or whatever, to make it seem like you give a $#$% but it sounds like anything you do will be cosmetic.
Best of luck.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: What to do...
All the signs are that they have it in for you so it is only the timing that is unknown and if the signs are that there may be a mass lay-off, you definitely don't want to wait till the market is flooded with people.
The one thing you can do is try and improve the timing.
Start looking seriously and don't just wait for job adverts. In the situation that exists jobs that do get advertised have probably already been filled.
Start contacting any and all possible employers, whether they are advertising or not and expand your search are to encompass the longest commute you can manage.
You also need to think about your own business. Can it be put on ice? is it portable? Is it worth persisting with if you get a really good job offer elsewhere? can you start it again from scratch elsewhere?
Is its success linked to the same drivers that affect the job situation you are in?
If you have some tough times coming the best way to keep ahead is to take the tough decisions yourself, don't let them be taken for you.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: What to do...
If you operate power equipment, randoms are common. Although a computer is power operated, I do not consider it dangerous to your health... That being said, the drug test should not be a problem, just irritating.
Also, watch out for the video cams in the bathroom.
Mike McCann
McCann Engineering
RE: What to do...
RE: What to do...
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: What to do...
I got a call yesterday regarding the CAD work I'm trying to get, so things may be changing here quite soon!
RE: What to do...
If they had such a hard time finding you then perhaps some of the work you do is work you could do for them on a contract basis. If so then you could mix up this with the CAD work and your own business.
(Plus, your boss forked out $10k for a plotter: I hope you are the only one who knows how to use it properly.)
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: What to do...
RE: What to do...
Other note:
Managers are human. So they are driven by the needs of any human being: food, clothes, and the most strong of the forces: Survival.
Tipically a manager will only keep the workers that do not put his position in stake.
As such, a better than average employee is a labelled as a "non-team player", "weird", "not following the ïnternal rules", etc.
Most probably you threatened his position so he had to push you down to see if you go out.
It will only become worse.
Or you swallow it for a couple of months while you take your PE and then say "bye,bye, see you around" or take your PE and go for his position next to his boss.
Either way, prepare to suffer and look for an option. As others said, even in a recession, good companies are always hiring.
Best of lucks.
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<a href="http://www
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: What to do...
I hope things work out... Dik