Graduate Degree Options
Graduate Degree Options
(OP)
I am closing the loop on a thread I started some time back about a master's program.
The masters program that I would like to enroll in will require me to take 7 undergrad classes (to fulfill their undergrad CE requirements in 3 of the other 4 disciplines - they will only count 2 of my 8 undergrad stuctural classes, because that is all they require). There are 4 other master's programs within approx. 50 miles and every one has told me that they wouldn't require me to take any additional classes (in fact, 2 of the 4 made a point to tell me that I've really taken a lot of structural classes).
The program I would like to enroll in is the most convenient for me - it is 10 minutes from my work and 35 minutes from my house. Also, I would rank the course offerings from this program near the top of the 5.
I have already taken 1 class there and got an A. I am taking another this spring.
That being said, I don't know if it is worth killing myself for 7 additional undergrad classes in fluids, transportation, and environmental engineering when I have no intention of EVER working in those disciplines and will not take any grad course in those disciplines.
Before you say 7 undergrad classes won't kill you.... I obviously work full time and have a wife and 2 kids at home. I did that for several years to get the undergrad degree, and it wasn't fun.
I am considering one other option. The university will let me take all the classes I want, but will not award me a degree until I complete their undergrad requirements. I am considering just taking the classes and saying "To hel* with the actual degree".
Would you think less of the 10 grad level classes on a resume if there weren't a degree attached to them?
I would like to get some opinions on which is the right way to head.
1. Take the classes and don't get the degree
2. Take the undergrad requirements and get the degree
3. Go to a different college
The masters program that I would like to enroll in will require me to take 7 undergrad classes (to fulfill their undergrad CE requirements in 3 of the other 4 disciplines - they will only count 2 of my 8 undergrad stuctural classes, because that is all they require). There are 4 other master's programs within approx. 50 miles and every one has told me that they wouldn't require me to take any additional classes (in fact, 2 of the 4 made a point to tell me that I've really taken a lot of structural classes).
The program I would like to enroll in is the most convenient for me - it is 10 minutes from my work and 35 minutes from my house. Also, I would rank the course offerings from this program near the top of the 5.
I have already taken 1 class there and got an A. I am taking another this spring.
That being said, I don't know if it is worth killing myself for 7 additional undergrad classes in fluids, transportation, and environmental engineering when I have no intention of EVER working in those disciplines and will not take any grad course in those disciplines.
Before you say 7 undergrad classes won't kill you.... I obviously work full time and have a wife and 2 kids at home. I did that for several years to get the undergrad degree, and it wasn't fun.
I am considering one other option. The university will let me take all the classes I want, but will not award me a degree until I complete their undergrad requirements. I am considering just taking the classes and saying "To hel* with the actual degree".
Would you think less of the 10 grad level classes on a resume if there weren't a degree attached to them?
I would like to get some opinions on which is the right way to head.
1. Take the classes and don't get the degree
2. Take the undergrad requirements and get the degree
3. Go to a different college





RE: Graduate Degree Options
If it is for the extra bucks that a higher degree may bring you (which in turn will benefit your family), go for an MBA or a law degree rather than pursuing a technical masters degree.
If you are a soon-to-be college grad, my advice may have been different...
RE: Graduate Degree Options
Once you've got them all shop around for the school that will take the least extra effort to assign you a Masters taking into account the classes you've taken.
Obviously you need to be carefull to avoid complete diploma mills (I nearly fell into that trap when I first moved here from the UK, found a place that would assign a Masters based on my UK BEng, a few trivial training classes and my 5 years experience!) but you might be able to find something.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Graduate Degree Options
I know when I was looking at graduate programs (however, not structural) I found several that would give you credit for classes at other universities. The caveat was that you had to complete the last 9 or 12 hours at the school where you get your degree from. Can you take the classes you want from the local, convenient program and then transfer to one of the others for the last year to actually get a degree? This will require close coordination to make sure all the classes you take will transfer or you are no better off than you are now.
7 undergrad prerequisites is a lot to lump onto a grad program as well. I know it would be a complete PITA but can you take an undergraduate class at the same time you are taking a graduate class? This would cut the length of time to get the degree but make that time much more difficult.
Ultimately, you need to decide how important is a degree to what you want to do and then how much effort can you put into it. I really don't think you will be happy putting an enormous amount of effort into taking the classes and essentially having nothing tangible to show for it. If I were a hiring manager and saw on a resume that you had 30 hours of graduate school but no MS, my first thought would be that you either washed out or your master's committee didn't pass you. After getting my MS part-time while working full time, if I had known when I started how hard it would be, I don't know that I would do it again. I am sure I wouldn't if you also told me I wouldn't get a degree out of it. That's not to say that the piece of paper is more important than the knowledge but the piece of paper is what gets you the compensation for the knowledge.
RE: Graduate Degree Options
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Graduate Degree Options
That being said, if I can get comparable knowledge by taking 10 similar classes somewhere else and have the degree is that the way to go.
My biggest concern is that I have seen numerous posts by experience engineers on here that would not even consider hiring a structural engineer with a BS only.
So, if I could took 10 grad classes, but didn't have a MS would I just have a B.S. with some grad classes or would the hiring manager recognize the level of grad school work?
RE: Graduate Degree Options
The other 4 programs I have looked into will allow me to transfer up to 3 classes into their MS program.
jpankask-
Would you have that same thought of someone who had 10 A's?
RE: Graduate Degree Options
In my company (which is one fairly small company out of thousands) a MS is not required for any job but a MS gives you more credit toward advancement and ultimately, then, salary. No credit is given for graduate work without the degree. That said, not everyone here knows that I have a master's degree but they do know the job that I can do, which is in part due to the knowledge and skills I gained while getting that master's degree.
It really goes back to what you are going to do with your career and whether you plan to seek jobs that might require a master's degree. Having the degree in structural engineering will never hurt you. Not having it may limit your choices at times. If you are OK with that, just go for the knowledge and let your work speak for itself.
RE: Graduate Degree Options
Many companies have training budgets for each employee. Make best use of it and attend mini seminars offered through your local SEA.
Guys requiring M.S. minimum for employment are really fooling themselves. I've seen plenty good engineers with leadership potential only with a B.S. I've also seen M.S. and Ph.D's that are not all that. It really depends on the individual and advertising M.S. only for positions is limiting the candidate pool.
RE: Graduate Degree Options
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RE: Graduate Degree Options
Why in the world are they making you take those undergrad classes? You don't need transportation or water classes to pursue graduate level structures classes. Is your undergraduate degree not in civil engineering?
Just out of curiosity, what structural classes have you taken already as an undergrad?
RE: Graduate Degree Options
I pretty much was able to substitute the other non-structural undergrad classes for structural classes and now I am being punished for it by a program that only requires structural classes!
RE: Graduate Degree Options
Think of it this way: the time you will spend dealing with those undergrad classes (showing up, homework, studying) will outweigh the time you will spend having to commute. If your current employer will let you work odd hours to get your 40 in for week, then it is certainly possible to go to another school, especially if you can get your classes on Tuesday and Thursday.
Good luck with whatever you decide, but I think the undergraduate classes, which you won't even be interested in, will make you sick of school.
RE: Graduate Degree Options
Without knowing your specific driving force for the education/degree, maybe you would be interested in earning a structural engineering certificate from a university that offers this via distance education. The University of Missour-Rolla and the University of Idaho are two that I found one time while doing a search. There may be others. The structural engineering certificate is basically half of a masters degree. You complete 12 hours of distance learning classes to earn the certificate. The catch is that your choice of classes are pretty limited. For example at UMR, you must choose 4 classes out of a possible 12. Substitutions are permitted with permission but I believe all hours must be taken from the University where you receive the certificate.
If you do not need the degree, this may be one shorter way to obtain some more education and get a piece of paper out of the deal. No questions raised on your resume, unless of course you apply for a job that requires a graduate degree. Last I checked, I think UMR was $755 per credit hour and U of Idaho was $500 per credit hour. Successful completion of the certificate also allows you entrance into the master's program, if you want.
For more information check out:
http://dce
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RE: Graduate Degree Options
From ABET-EAC 207-2008 Criteria for Accrediting Engineering Programs:
"Criteria for masters level programs are completion of a program of study satisfying the general criteria for baccaureate level engineering programs, one academic year of study beyond the baccalaureate level, and an engineering project or research activity resulting in a report that demonstrates both mastery of the subject matter and a high level of communication skills."
Just something to be aware of as you decide your path.
RE: Graduate Degree Options
I am not following that. Are you talking about an accredited Master's? If so, ABET will only accredit a BS or a MS, not both. Most universities go the BS accreditation route.
If you are talking about any school with a MS program that offers an accredited BS program, then I have to disagree with you because the other 4 schools I referenced all have ABET accredited CE programs and wouldn't require a single additional class for me to enroll in their MS program.
RE: Graduate Degree Options
You're absolutely right. If the BS program is ABET accredited, then the MS program won't be and doesn't necessarily have to follow those guidelines. It looks like you're lucky enough to live nearest to a university that adheres to both the BS and MS requirements.
RE: Graduate Degree Options
In any case, if I were you, I would put my priority on obtaining a P.E. license. In the process of preparing for the exam(s), you can learn a whole lot.
I agree with abusementpark about you being punished for getting a degree that better prepared you for your job.
Structural discipline should have seceded from Civil a long time ago.
RE: Graduate Degree Options
It is a B.S. degree. I was required to take 132 credits (typical requirements for most BSCE degrees).
RE: Graduate Degree Options
RE: Graduate Degree Options
For instance, in this state, a technology degree alone will most likely never qualify you to sit for the FE exam. There are three conditions under which you are eligible for the FE.
1)You have a degree in Engineering from an ABET-EAC accredited engineering program.
2)You have a degree in Technology from an non ABET-EAC accredited program (technology programs are usually accredited by ABET-TAC, not ABET-EAC) AND a graduate degree from an school whose undergraduate program is ABET-EAC accredited.
3)You have a degree in Engineering from a non ABET-EAC accredited program and four years of experience.
To receive a license, you either have to have be an intern (able to sit for and pass the FE) or have the qualifications of an intern and pass the PE exam OR be a licensed engineer in another state who honors reciprocity AND whose qualifications at the time the license was issued were not in conflict with this state's.
So, as far as I can tell there is no way to become licensed in this state with a technology degree by itself, even if you try to go the reciprocity route. I don't know what other states do, but if you're going into structural engineering and may be crossing state borders, it is something you're probably going to want to consider carefully.
RE: Graduate Degree Options
Not almost anymore!
RE: Graduate Degree Options
I know I want to take classes, I am just trying to decide which of the 3 routes I mentioned earlier to choose. I wouldn't be as concerned about the degree except for some comments by some respected people on this forum about how BS candidates only are really unsuited for structural work and would only consider MS candidates.
That being said, I work with people (who all started within 6 months before or after me) who have MS from Virginia Tech, Cornell, and USC, to name a few of the schools, who have no deeper understanding of steel or concrete design or structural analysis than I have.
RE: Graduate Degree Options
While researching all of these schools I have spent some time actually looking into their undergraduate programs. It is no wonder some people feel that a master's is necessary for structural engineering - most undergrad CE degrees limit you to 3-4 structural classes. People should really recognize that not all programs have the same limitations. For example, the school where I am currently taking grad classes has a very good selection of graduate structural classes, but only 3 (yes, you read that right... THREE) structural undergraduate classes in their course catalog and steel/concrete are offered TOGETHER, not even as seperate classes.
I took 8 undergraduate structural classes. I just finished a graduate concrete class and I wondered why 60%-70% of what was taught in this grad level course was covered in my undergrad concrete classes. It makes more sense now that concrete is only half of a semester here.
RE: Graduate Degree Options
undergrad fluids and transpo is a joke compared to structures classes.
hopefully someday you will be a principal, and when you hand out your professional resume, you will want it to say you have an MS. Especially since in 20+ years almost all entry levels SEs will have a MSCE minimum
Also, at my firm you can't become a principal without having an MSCE
just remember, it's all about that little piece of paper, not that classes you took