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Statics Test for Employment

Statics Test for Employment

Statics Test for Employment

(OP)
How many of you have taken a small test for employment?  I just finish taking a small statics test in which I think a frame problem but did well on everything else.

Calif

The resisant virtues of the structure that we seek depend on their form; it is through their form that they are stable, not  because of an awkward accumulation of material.  There is nothing more noble and elegant from an intellectual viewpoint than this: to resist through form.  Eladio Dieste

RE: Statics Test for Employment

I have never had to do a "test" for a job, but would actually welcome it.  My technical abilities far exceed my people skills!  

RE: Statics Test for Employment

Well, I can tell you one thing, if your sigma fy is not 0, try again LOL  jk.  Why would they do that?

RE: Statics Test for Employment

That's funny.

I have heard of companies doing that. Usually it's just to make sure you are not completely devoid of common sense (like, for example, being an OU fan :) ).

RE: Statics Test for Employment

We give our prospective CAD technicians a small test - it has helped weed out some folks who have talked a good game but their timed CAD skills showed otherwise.

RE: Statics Test for Employment

I just finished a job search, out of about 13 companies 8 of them gave me some sort of statics quiz... it was pretty easy though

RE: Statics Test for Employment

Mini exams are intended primarily for candidates right out of school or ones with one or two years of experience.  It makes no sense for mid to upper level positions.

Before landing my first engineering job, one company that I interviewed required a 30 minute exam involving structural details which I had no clue at the time.  They did not offer me the position.

I never required any technical exams for candidates that I interviewed but if I were to give one, it would be beams with some loads (one point load in the middle, three equal point loads at quarter points, uniform load) and ask to draw the shear and moment diagrams for each.  Portal frame with lateral and some load on the beam and ask to draw shear, moment and deflected shape.  None using numbers.

Though technical common sense is essential to this business, it is only a small portion.

RE: Statics Test for Employment

I have never taken or given a statics test during an interview for an engineer position.  I think it is fairly obvious just from talking to the candidate whether or not they have an understanding of fundamentals like statics.  So I don't waste time with something so basic.  It sounds like something a human resources manager would use to screen out the totally incompetent before setting up the real interviews with the engineering supervisor.

Instead of a test, I might ask a few questions about more advanced topics to get a feel for the depth of their knowledge.  Just how advanced these topics are depends on the experience level of the candidate.  For a recent grad, it might be something like "Explain how the fundamental period of a structure influences earthquake base shear."  For a more experienced engineer, it might be "Give me an example of a challenging technical issue you faced on a project and how you resolved it."  They should be able to explain their answers using simple language without trying to dazzle you with technical jargon.  You can tell whether they really know what they are talking about and also get an idea of their communication skills.

RE: Statics Test for Employment

Taro-

I suspect you're located in California (or another seismic area). I would have failed your test, as I never took earthquake engineering in undergrad..  as a matter of fact, it was not even an option at the undergrad level.

RE: Statics Test for Employment

For decades, I've given a simple statics problem as part of an interview for both engineers and technicians.  Something along the lines of sketching out a simply supported beam with a central point load and then asking what information is required to predict the deflection.  A large proportion of alleged engineers don't do well on that problem.  

Actually, I _do_ get a lot of phonies.  I'm not talking about people who once knew how to do it but are just rusty; they're easy to detect.  These are people who have clearly never been exposed to the material.

I've also found that those of us who give difficult technical interviews are soon bypassed by a prefilter, usually without notice.  I.e., they send me the losers that HR doesn't want to hire, but doesn't have a legally defensible reason for not hiring.  

The losers that HR _does_ want to hire... just show up for work one day, with no warning.

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: Statics Test for Employment

frv, as you point out, the specific questions would have to be tailored to apply to the situation.  That specific question might be good for a graduate with a master's degree applying for a job with a large firm in a "seismic area".  Might not apply for a small firm that designs lowrise buildings in the midwest.

When I interviewed for my first job, my future boss asked me to explain what could cause a structure's center of rigidity to be offset from the center of mass and what effect that could have on the seismic response of the building.  It was at a large structural firm that only hired graduates with master's degrees.

For a job in a non-seismic area, maybe a sample question would be "Explain why a member with a large tributary area is designed for a reduced live load or wind load".

RE: Statics Test for Employment

I would have done well on the alternate question :)

RE: Statics Test for Employment

We typically ask that younger engineer’s bring in copies of their calculations from a past project for review.  Or homework for engineer’s coming straight out of school.  You can tell a lot from someone’s calculations, how well they document their calc’s, assumptions, findings, etc.  However I judge my candidates mainly on people skills when hiring.  All our engineers have plenty of interaction with our clients. I want someone with that can interact well with people in all kinds of situations.  By earning an Engineering degree they have proven that they can learn and be taught.  I know that my staff can teach they engineer skills if they are not up to par.  However I have yet found a way to teach people skills to those that don’t have it.

RE: Statics Test for Employment

These days with the computer being so very integral with structural analysis, I like to be able to see that young engineers can still think on their toes and be able to bracket the answers/behaviors prior to getting into the computer.

Also as mentioned above, I gain a great deal of insight by looking at calculations and the written thought process.

I would not give such an exam to an experienced engineer.  Though I've met plenty who know one topic so well they've forgotten some of the very basics.

Regards,
Qshake
pipe
Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

RE: Statics Test for Employment

my first post, Hello everyone and sorry for if I'm in the wrong area, I have not any working knollage of this forum yet.

I test all tecnical staff coming into the factory. It's not a pass or fail test but it's a good ice breaker and starts of very easy and is sometimes based around there own cv. This finds out how true the cv is. A person can do poorly on the exam, and its partly practical and come across a honist and relable which in some less tecnical roles mite be just that I'm looking for.
In short lie in the cv, intreview or test and you will be found out.   

RE: Statics Test for Employment

(OP)
Well, I can see if an employer wants to test an engineer to see what they know but if it is predicated on getting a job then I am not so sure.  If a young engineer who is motivated to be an engineer gets a queston wrong or is rusty with some aspects of statics, does that mean he is not capable to learn skill over again to work at the expentation of the employer?  We don't know everything and with the age of computers, basics sometimes can be get rusty because of the time due to calculations by hand vs the computer to do it.  I remember I asked a structural engineer who is a bridge engineer with over 30 years of experiences in design and I asked him a question about virtual work for deflection problem(simple beam with distrubutive load).  He said, I have not seen that in years and we have computers for that.  Mind you he was not a bad engineer at all, he was the guy that everyone had gone to if they had questions to solve anything with bridges.  Does this mean he is a bad engineer?

Calif

The resisant virtues of the structure that we seek depend on their form; it is through their form that they are stable, not  because of an awkward accumulation of material.  There is nothing more noble and elegant from an intellectual viewpoint than this: to resist through form.  Eladio Dieste

RE: Statics Test for Employment

My first employer out of school gave a quick engineering test.  Three questions.  I forget the first one, very easy.  Second was draw the deflected shape of a simple frame he drew, and the third was something about shear flow in a C section.

RE: Statics Test for Employment

before i moved, my former employer started to give psychological pre-screening exams for prospective employees.  i took the test with a selection of some of the other employees to help establish base lines.

RE: Statics Test for Employment

i test interviewees ... people round here call "an inquisition".  i started awhile back, and i've been pretty disappointed in how few can solve a simply supported beam without looking up roark.  the point is not particularly to answer the question, the point is to plumb the depths of their understanding of structures ... usually it doesn't take much string !

RE: Statics Test for Employment

I have never had to fill out such a test during an interview.

However, the company I work at does do this for new graduates, just to be sure they know some fundamental concepts.  One interviewee had much trouble with the shear and moment diagram.  Not a good sign for someone right out of college.

RE: Statics Test for Employment

I've taken a structural technical test for employment as well as an IQ test and a personality test.

RE: Statics Test for Employment

(OP)
Well, you guys are alot smarter than I.  It has been awhile since I did frames and missed a simple frame with distributive load question until the manager explained it to me.  One side rigid, the other side hinged and all I had to do was see draw a moment for the frame.   Hopefully, it will not hold me back too much since I got everything else correct.

The resisant virtues of the structure that we seek depend on their form; it is through their form that they are stable, not  because of an awkward accumulation of material.  There is nothing more noble and elegant from an intellectual viewpoint than this: to resist through form.  Eladio Dieste

RE: Statics Test for Employment

I once had to take something that looked like an IQ test during an interview, but never a structural exam.  No clue how I did -- probably slightly above primate LOL.

BTW, I like the idea of having them bring in sample calcs better than a test.  Not only would it be possible to see if the person is a slob, but folks that are too far on the other end of the spectrum (too particular so slow and inefficient) would be detected also.

RE: Statics Test for Employment

My first job required a 10-15 question test for all engineering applicants. It was mostly conceptual questions that could be answered by anyone who understood structural theory, with a few practical and odd non-engineering ones thrown in for good measure. I'll admit I was surprised and unprepared, but since it was conceptual and not number crunching I had little problem with it.

I personally thought giving a short test of this nature is a great idea.

RE: Statics Test for Employment

I had an interview with about 8 stess guys in the aerospace industry.  Each one asked be to free body a shear clip (this is a 90 deg angle with two fastenrs per flange).  This is a very very basic fbd.  I drew out the fbd each time and after a couple people asked me to do this i had to ask why.  They said that I would be surprised how many people could not fbd a shear clip.  Any respectable aero stress guy could do this in their sleep!  

Another quality question was about a floor beam in an aircraft.  The beam in question had a large hole right in the middle of the beam that totally removed the shear web.  I was asked how to analyze this.  I asked why the hole is there.  It's there for systems like hydralics, etc.  I said, "I'd reroute the hydraulics under the floor beam".  Thus, the structure is not degraded.  The interviewer wanted me to say split the moment and shear into the caps, but I was insistant on designing the structure correctly.  I gained points for my viewpoint I think.

My point is that during an interview, simple questions can tell much about the abilities of a candidate.  I welcome technical questions.  It gives me hope that the company knows what they are doing.

RE: Statics Test for Employment

The only time I was given a real technical question was when I came to DOT.  They had a two span continuous beam and asked me where I would place a single point load to maximize the moment in the beam.  I told them where to place the load to maximize the positive moment.  I told them where to place the load to maximize the negative moment.  I told them why the maximum positive moment was larger than the maximum negative moment.  I told them how to maximize the negative moment using distributed load.  I told them how a three span beam problem would be different from the two span problem. ... And I got the job with the highest starting salery they ever offered before.

As an interviewer, I think a quiz of this kind is a good thing.  But, I'm not going to make my whole decision on the results of that one question.

RE: Statics Test for Employment

I have been given a few technical questions on three occasions.

The first time was really basic questions like wl^2/8

The second talked about retrofit of A-frame trusses(one of their main lines of work) including problems and solutions. This was a good questionare.

The last asked about forces e.t.c. in trusses and portal frames.

The first was a waste of time, but the last two I thought were really good questions.

RE: Statics Test for Employment

I have never taken a test, or given one.  But I like the idea.  I have asked to see copies of classwork.  That shoes if a person is organized but not always if they are knowledgable.  What about showing a copy of your transcript to the interviewer?  In my opinion, the transcript will show if a person had to repeat one or more classes, which can indicate a lack of effort and/or ability.

RE: Statics Test for Employment

archeng,

I was a very poor student, but I am actually quite a good engineer(based on reliable feedback not blind arrogance).

The two can sometimes be completely different things.

I would suggest a test that checks their ability to think their way around a building rather than just focusing on theory. Perhaps give then a faulty design sketch and ask them to spot the problems...

RE: Statics Test for Employment

csd, there are alot of reasons why a person has to repeat coursework.  Personal issues for instance.  I personally know a young person who interviewed well, showed us good examples of his classwork, and appeared to be a good entry level hire.  It took about 6 months to realize there was little between the ears.  A reference check with a professor said the young man was "hard headed".  I didn't realize what that meant until after working with him and then seeing his transcript a few months after he graduated.  He repeated ALL of his engineering courses at least once.  Several more than once.  I understand the "hard headed" comment now.  I commented on the number of repeated courses.  He seemed surprised, and implied that I was lying, when I said I didn't repeat any courses.

How much emphasis does anyone put on work experience while in college?  Not just engineering work, but working to help pay bills or earn spending money?  Also, is it a requirement with most firms that you pass the FE before graduating or being accepted for employment?

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