SS # Disclosure
SS # Disclosure
(OP)
I am confused. Is it right not to disclose your ss# on a employee application prior to an interview or a job offer? According to Federal Law it is voluntary. I have never had an application ask for my ss#. Up until now the only time I needed to write my SS# was after I was hired. I was born in the US, have never had debts/loans and I actually own 'everything' I have accumulated in my short life (thank you employer salary :)). Most of us are taught growing up not to 'jump off a bridge just because someone is doing it' (some listen and apply it). Just because a college teammate or dorm mate you just met and have to be around for 4 years smokes cigarettes, doesn't mean you have to do it to fit in and have a good 4 years around them in the frat house or on the team. With all the types of employers that have employees (techs to managers) losing data and electronic equipment it doesn't seem that secure to become careless with your private data, freely handing out information to a company that has not offered you a position. HR may may not be aware, engineering departments have projects where they can't disclose certain company information to people on the project or in forms and reports. Thank you for your help.





RE: SS # Disclosure
However, if you fail to provided it the potential employer can choose to reject your application on those grounds.
You can't be forced to give it out but you can face consequences for not doing so.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: SS # Disclosure
I guess, it comes down to how much leverage do you have? If you really want the job/ the jobs a perfect fit...its probably worth it. You can at lest ask them what they need it for, if its required and if they will shread it when they are done. If you dont like their answer, be prepared to walk.
RE: SS # Disclosure
Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 1.1
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-07-07)
ctopher's blog
RE: SS # Disclosure
We recently got new medical insurance cards with an alias number instead of SSN, but my security clearance application REQUIRED SSN!!!
TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: SS # Disclosure
Heckler![[americanflag] americanflag](https://www.tipmaster.com/images/americanflag.gif)
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SWx 2007 SP 4.0 & Pro/E 2001
o
_`\(,_
(_)/ (_)
This post contains no political overtones or undertones for that matter and in no way represents the poster's political agenda.
RE: SS # Disclosure
If you want to delay that disclosure until after you are hired, then you certainly have that right, BUT that move is guaranteed to raise a fair number of red flags and I sure wouldn't hire you.
David
RE: SS # Disclosure
I was hired, SSN was required. It is NOT required to hire. It is only needed AFTER hired.
Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 1.1
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-07-07)
ctopher's blog
RE: SS # Disclosure
Obviously, once you have accepted the job, there are tax laws that would probably require your SSN. It just seems too early in the process to be giving out that type of information.
RE: SS # Disclosure
TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: SS # Disclosure
To do this the employer needs your bank details.
Is it reasonable for them to ask for this at the interview stage?
Would you provide it?
Ok so not quite the law angle but none the less...
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: SS # Disclosure
Did you speak-up or did you wait until HR said something about not havng it filled in?
David,
You are referring to the Federal W-2 form, for Employee With-Holding Allowances. Even the W-2 has writing about the Federal Law I mentioned. As Ctopher stated, in my limited experience I have received federal forms after an offer has been extended to me and after I accepted. I have been in offices (military companies too) that 'shuttle' your application papers to different people around the building to managers, secretaries and other types of workers.
RE: SS # Disclosure
The direct checking (and lets include 401k, stocks) is also after the offer and acceptance. From my short and limited experience :).
RE: SS # Disclosure
I left the SSN line blank. They told me they needed it to finalize the hiring process. I told them it is not needed unless they hire me...they called me and I explained that I do not give personal info to anyone that calls me. I said that if I'm hired, send me the official paperwork and I will send it back and call them with the SSN. They understood and agreed.
Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 1.1
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-07-07)
ctopher's blog
RE: SS # Disclosure
Deposits with the Social Security Administration have nothing to do with whether you get a check or direct deposit. There is always an item on your check stub called "FICA" that represents a deposit into the Social Security Administration into the account with an account number that is your SSN.
NCAASwimmer,
No, I'm not talking about W-2 or W-4 forms. There is an Employer report (I don't remember the IRS form number, I don't have employees so I don't have to fill it out) that the government is really insistent about getting every month that lists the employees, their SSN's, their gross pay for the period, the amount of employee contribution to FICA, and the employers contribution to FICA. If the employer doesn't send it in on time the IRS gets really cranky.
All,
As I said in my first post, there is no legal obligation to provide your SSN in the original interview/application process, but I would see refusing to provide it as an indication that the applicant is hiding something that might easily be germane to their being an effective employee and I wouldn't consider an applicant who came with that much baggage unless there were compelling reasons (e.g., an experienced person who's work product I might be able to evaluate from their published work). Someone with less than 10 years experience who refused to provide their SSN on an application wouldn't get an interview from me.
David
RE: SS # Disclosure
Besides, would you really want to work for someone you can't trust with your personal information? They'll have it after they hire you regardless. That being said, I do not list my SSN on my resume (that might be ludicrous), but I was asked to fill out appropriate paperwork at the interview.
RE: SS # Disclosure
Like many things that employers ask for, there is no reason to need this information until after an employee is hired; in fact, by asking for this at the application stage, the employer is adding a burden of security to their own procedures, since the employer is now expected to treat all applications as sensitive documents.
Sure, by not providing it, you might flag yourself as 'not a team player', but, by asking for it, the employer is flagging themselves as rather disorganized and lacking in knowledge about information security.
RE: SS # Disclosure
Jeff Mirisola, CSWP
Certified DriveWorks AE
http://designsmarter.typepad.com/jeffs_blog
Dell M90, Core2 Duo
4GB RAM
Nvidia 3500M
RE: SS # Disclosure
RE: SS # Disclosure
RE: SS # Disclosure
The background check is a good example of when they'd need it before you start but not necessarily before you get a conditional offer.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: SS # Disclosure
Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 1.1
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-07-07)
ctopher's blog
RE: SS # Disclosure
RE: SS # Disclosure
RE: SS # Disclosure
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: SS # Disclosure
RE: SS # Disclosure
SG, O you didnt get the memo? they changed the rules so now your guilty until proven otherwise.
RE: SS # Disclosure
There is nothing more 'un-american' than not driving.
RE: SS # Disclosure
Are you suggesting that we should all play golf?
Mike McCann
McCann Engineering
RE: SS # Disclosure
The powers that be pushed thru some drivers license legislation directly imposes prescriptive federal driver’s license standards. "A Federal agency may not accept, for any official purpose, a driver's license or identification card issued by a state to any person unless the state is meeting the requirements" specified in the Real ID Act.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_ID_Act
Sounds like a national ID card to me!
RE: SS # Disclosure
RE: SS # Disclosure
On the front of the SSN do you think we the public should be more active in pushing for it to be treated with more sensitivity?
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: SS # Disclosure
I would not want your job if you made that an issue. Nobody but you is going to safe guard your identity. You would have a different opinion if you went through a theft of your identity.....knowing someone out there was opening up accounts and charging expenses under your good name.
Heckler![[americanflag] americanflag](https://www.tipmaster.com/images/americanflag.gif)
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SWx 2007 SP 4.0 & Pro/E 2001
o
_`\(,_
(_)/ (_)
This post contains no political overtones or undertones for that matter and in no way represents the poster's political agenda.
RE: SS # Disclosure
TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: SS # Disclosure
In a really extreme but real situation that impacts many, active duty members of the military all but have the SSN tatoo'd on their forehead for all to see.
This is because our SSN is also our "serial number" (for those with long memories). To make matters worse, congress passed the "Privacy Act" which is intended to help protect personal information, yet the end resulty of this "privacy act" is every time you sign your name on a form, you must ALSO fill out and sign a "Privacy Act Statement", where you acknowledge you are aware of the Privacy Act.....and you MUST put your SSN on the Privacy Act Statement! ALso, anytime you use a check to pay for anything in a military facility, you must include your SSN. When I was active duty, I had my SSN pre-printed on every check!
Talk about a bunch of BS!
Almost the same thing, however, exists at many universities, where your student ID IS your SSN.
OK, back on topic: I think it routine for companies to require or request your SSN as part of your employment application, but I also think it is OK for one to leave it blank, or insert "will be provided upon hiring".
RE: SS # Disclosure
RE: SS # Disclosure
RE: SS # Disclosure
I don't want to give out that information like candy just to find out they want to charge me twice what I'm already paying.
RE: SS # Disclosure
RE: SS # Disclosure
I forgot my dog tags have my SSN# number on them....Do they still put the SSN# on them?
Heckler![[americanflag] americanflag](https://www.tipmaster.com/images/americanflag.gif)
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SWx 2007 SP 4.0 & Pro/E 2001
o
_`\(,_
(_)/ (_)
This post contains no political overtones or undertones for that matter and in no way represents the poster's political agenda.
RE: SS # Disclosure
Most places in Michigan will base rates on credit scores. (some people do not know this) When I first moved out on my own (and was pretty free with the credit cards) I couldn't figure out why my rates were skyrocketing (with a perfect record and regular car)until I found out about the credit check. Found some places that did not check and switched companies. saved a lot of cash.
As others have said. employers are doing it now. Can't wait for the day when they fire you because of it ;)
RE: SS # Disclosure
Yes, the US Military uses SSAN for identification, including on dog tags (at least as of my last issue).
RE: SS # Disclosure
Being a felon or not being a felon has nothing to do with being a good engineer. However, it has alot to do with how you check the y/n box that reads: "Have you ever been convicted of a felony?" Y____ N____
Without running the background check there is no way keep someone honest. And let's face it... How many convicted felons would lie about it on an application if they knew they would never get caught???
Additionally, being paranoid about handing out your SSN nowadays is pointless. If anyone really wants your info, they can get it. Just pay the few bucks per month to monitor your credit and forget about it... Or... go live in a cave...
RE: SS # Disclosure
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: SS # Disclosure
RE: SS # Disclosure
When I went through identity theft these types of protection mechanisms were not around....I had to put a credit hold upon personal notification with the credit holding agencies.
Heckler![[americanflag] americanflag](https://www.tipmaster.com/images/americanflag.gif)
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SWx 2007 SP 4.0 & Pro/E 2001
o
_`\(,_
(_)/ (_)
This post contains no political overtones or undertones for that matter and in no way represents the poster's political agenda.
RE: SS # Disclosure
I'll try again:
1 This is my name: (arbitrary unique alphabetical sequence)
2 This is my SSN: (arbitrary unique numerical sequence)
Why is it 'safer' to tell all and sundry (1) rather than (2) ?
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: SS # Disclosure
Heckler![[americanflag] americanflag](https://www.tipmaster.com/images/americanflag.gif)
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SWx 2007 SP 4.0 & Pro/E 2001
o
_`\(,_
(_)/ (_)
This post contains no political overtones or undertones for that matter and in no way represents the poster's political agenda.
RE: SS # Disclosure
It's been a while since I got a new credit card, but I think that is an accurate statement.
RE: SS # Disclosure
And again, I would be afraid to go to work for a company who did not have strict policy in place to check my criminal background and run my credit BEFORE making me an offer. Mom and Pop type of companies surely don't need to, but any company playing ball with the big boys will certain need such a policy as a means to protect itself.
Ever heard of corporate espionage? There are con's all over the place who are for hire to the highest bidder in the dark world of cat and mouse corporate espionage... Wanna bet if many of these guys have a record??
RE: SS # Disclosure
RE: SS # Disclosure
There was the recent case of a beloved MIT adminstrator who was fired after decades on the job, for lying on her original job application. Clearly, companies didn't check as thoroughly before, and they got burned, and they now check. That was Reagan's famous line, "Trust, but verify."
TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: SS # Disclosure
I don't think a name such as "John Smith" could really be considered a unique identifier.
RE: SS # Disclosure
Having grown up in the era when SSN was used as student ID, I'm not too paranoid about it (barn door, horse, etc.), but I refuse to just hand over information that someone has no right to, just because they asked me for it. (Back when I still wrote checks, the grocery store didn't get to have my SSN either.)
This is roughly (except for the identity theft issues) along the lines of an employer asking in an interview about age and marital status. Legally, they can't ask that. But what happens when they do? Is there any politically safe way to maintain one's rights? Is there any point in even *having* rights if they can't be enforced? If they can't, do they really exist?
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: SS # Disclosure
http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs10a-SSNFAQ.htm
Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 1.1
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-07-07)
ctopher's blog
RE: SS # Disclosure
I am truly amazed that so many in this forum have issue with a potential employer checking your background. Doing so actually protects you a thousand times over more than it could ever hurt you.
RE: SS # Disclosure
I would expect the company to check me out AFTER they have made a formal offer of employment, not as a part of their pre-interview screening process.
RE: SS # Disclosure
For me it has nothing to do with my rights being violated, just being cautious. These days we have to be.
My current employer (a major aerospace firm) understood this and told me they need employees that are cautious about security.
Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 1.1
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-07-07)
ctopher's blog
RE: SS # Disclosure