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Large Assembly Questions

Large Assembly Questions

Large Assembly Questions

(OP)
Hello,

Our Problem:
This has been a problem for us for years now.  We create many assembly models in the range of 200-300 unique components with the total components being around 800.  Assembly model size of 10MB with a Assembly Drawing size of 24MB.  We are constantly having issues with the PCs crashing or extremely long load times (sometimes 20-30 minutes).  We also use DBWorks and are working over a network.  The 3GB switch is also enabled on our machines.

Typical Machine:
Dell Precision 690
Windows XP SP2 32bit
3.00 GHz Intel Xeon (single)
64kb primary memory cashe
4096 secondary memory cashe
Bus Clock - 1333MHz
nVidia Quadro3450 video card

Question:
I know there are many users out there that do much larger assemblies that what we typically do and I would REALLY like to know what they are using to do it.  What I would like to know is the following:

Machine Specs:
Working over network or local
PDM system (if applicable)
Typical assembly sizes
Anything else they would be benefical to know.

Thanks in advance for any information or suggestions as I would like to put an end to the pc issues so we can spend more time modeling and less time restarting machines.

BodyBagger

RE: Large Assembly Questions

How much RAM?
Is it the correct type for the machine?
Are all the RAM modules the same?
Have they been checked for function?

Which VC driver?
Is it the latest certified version from SW site?
Was it installed properly? See FAQ's
Is the /USERVA switch used in conjunction with the /3GB switch? http://support.microsoft.com/kb/316739

Were the SW installs performed with the AV disabled?

cheers

RE: Large Assembly Questions

(OP)
RAM - 4GB (4 x 1GB) - Dell factory installed

Checked for function - not sure how to do this, can you advise on this procedure please?

Most recent VC driver D/L from the solidworks site.

Installed with antivirus and firewall disabled

/USERVA switch - Not sure what this is so I will check the link you provided to verify.

Current assembly statistics shouwn:

[IMG]http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/4624/36815365rd1.jpg[/IMG]

Thanks

RE: Large Assembly Questions

Do you have large assembly mode enabled?

Also, to decrease file size you can save the model with all of the parts suppressed.  This may speed up load time too.  However, you run the risk of mates screwing up when they are unsuppressed.

I would guess that working over the network is what is bogging you down.  Have you tried a pack-and-go to put the files on a local machine to test the network?

Dan

www.eltronresearch.com

RE: Large Assembly Questions

(OP)
Eltron - LAM is enabled at 1000 parts.
Unfortunately we are not allowed to work from the local machines.

Thanks

RE: Large Assembly Questions

Whoever told you that you're not allowed to work from your local machine can't be that well versed in CAD software. Your network is killing your performance and productivity. I would gather all the facts and data I could and present it to the moron individual to show him or her the error of their ways.

Jeff Mirisola, CSWP
http://designsmarter.typepad.com/jeffs_blog
Dell M90, Core2 Duo
4GB RAM
Nvidia 3500M

RE: Large Assembly Questions

(OP)
Yeah, I know....sigh.  However, I have been told that it would require a MAJOR change in how DBWorks deals with checking in/checking out from the "vault".  Actually, I can not stand DBWorks, wish we wold have went with PDMWorks as it seems much more intuitive.  I was really hoping to get some feedback from the LARGE ASSEMBLY users to use as ammunition to possibly get mindsets changed around here.

RE: Large Assembly Questions

I'd be willing to bet that any of those using large assemblies, of which I was one, will tell you that you HAVE to work locally. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

Jeff Mirisola, CSWP
http://designsmarter.typepad.com/jeffs_blog
Dell M90, Core2 Duo
4GB RAM
Nvidia 3500M

RE: Large Assembly Questions

I'm with Jeff on this one.  Slip the Admin a nice bottle of scotch, and maybe they'll change their minds...

Dan

www.eltronresearch.com

RE: Large Assembly Questions

I would be really surprised if DBWorks cannot be set up to copy the files to a local drive on check out.  That is how every file control software that I have dealt with has worked.

Eric

RE: Large Assembly Questions

I concur.  SolidWorks should only be used to open files on the local drive, regardless of part or assembly size.  Accessing files over the network is not only bad practice, but it very likely the source of the crashing issue.

http://sw.fcsuper.com/index.php?name=FAQ&id_cat=2

Matt Lorono
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
and Mechnical.Engineering Yahoo! Group

RE: Large Assembly Questions

I disagree with you guys somewhat. We have been working over a network with no PDM for years. Our larger assemblies have several thousand parts with several hundred unique parts. The biggest assembly we have has about 10,000 parts and takes maybe 15 minutes to load. It does require Winxp 64bit since it uses more memory than Winxp 32bit can handle.

I know working locally is faster but with a good fast network properly setup, you can get speeds that aren't much slower.

Without a PDM, users working locally on the same stuff is just asking for trouble.

Bodybagger, to test your network speed, try creating a copy of the assembly and all referenced files with SolidWorks Explorer's "Pack n Go". Make sure you add a suffix to all files so it won't go back to the network looking for the originals. Try loading this from your local hardrive and compare it.

Another thing, has all you files in DbWorks been converted to your current version of SolidWorks? If some of the files are last saved in previous versions then they will go through a conversion process when they are loaded with the assembly. Since they are most likely Read-only" and being controlled by the PDM, they don't get saved and you go through this conversion process everytime you open the assembly. Bottom line is its slower and you are waiting on more than just file loading, you are also waiting on the files to convert. The older they are, the worse it is. Like opening 2001 saved files in 2007....it has to convert it through all those in between versions.

Jason

SolidWorks 2007 SP5.0
SolidWorks 2008 SP0.1
WinXp sp2 (32 and 64 bit)

RE: Large Assembly Questions

If you are using Norton Virus software, it is possible (depending on settings and version) that it slowing down SolidWorks by scanning every file that is opened.
Try making all parts within the assy lightweight.

Chris
SolidWorks 08 0.0/PDMWorks 08
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-07-07)
ctopher's blog

RE: Large Assembly Questions

Gildashard,

I used to have that opinion, however experience has taught me a few lessons.  Any file accessed over a network connection is significantly slower than that file accessed from the local drive.  This is because network speeds are much slower than harddrive speeds, and are compounded with each access attempt.  There is no comparison that can defeat this fact, unless the harddrive is 10 years old or something.  It is also my personal experience that someone working over a network has a lot more crashes than when not.  There a just too many variables to overcome.  

The other issues you raise are legit and should be looked into by Bodybagger.

Matt Lorono
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
and Mechnical.Engineering Yahoo! Group

RE: Large Assembly Questions

Well, if you have to work over a network, get a proper switch and use at least 1Gbit lan for the workstations and preferably 10GBit for the server (workgroup networks should allways be set up like this, prevents situations where one workstation claims all server bandwith).

Relatively small investment compared to losing one hour every day for a couple of years.

Stefan Hamminga
EngIT Solutions
CSWP/Mechanical designer
Searching Eng-Tips forums

RE: Large Assembly Questions

(OP)
Looks like you guys check the forum in your off work hours as well, very dedicated I must say :).  Thanks very much to everyone who has chimed in.  It really does seem like the majority vote is to work locally if possible.  I will be gathering ammo to try and get this changed in the near future.

StefanHamminga -
We do have the 1GB per workstation and 10GB for the server already so at least one thing is right.

ctopher -
Good point, originally our network was setup to virus check all files transferred over the network (including solidworks files).  We did recently change it to exclude files with the solidworks extensions.

Gildashard -
You mentioned that you are working over a network and that you are using a 64 bit system.  Would you mind listing a more detailed spec on your pc setup (manufacturer, model, processor, RAM, etc), it would be appreciated.

JMirisola -
If using the bottle on them does not work I may turn it on myself as I will have plenty of time to chug-a-lug as the pc grinds away :)))

RE: Large Assembly Questions

EEnd (Eric) makes a good point, one would think that DBworks would make copies the files locally when you check them out. So technically speaking you might already be working locally.

At any rate, have you tried opening files locally (using a pack and go) as a test to rule out the network?

RE: Large Assembly Questions

(OP)
josephv -
I am going to give the Pack & Go a try this afternoon and see how it goes.

RE: Large Assembly Questions

We have one 64 bit system, the rest are 32bit.

The specs on the 64bit PC (High End)
Dell Precision 390
E6800 3.93ghz Core 2
4gb ram
Quadro FX 3500 graphics
WinXP 64bit
SolidWorks 2007 64bit

Our Typical SolidWorks PC:
Dell Precision 390
E6600 1.86ghz Core 2
2gb ram
Quadro FX 3500 graphics
WinXP 32bit
SolidWorks 2007

Jason

SolidWorks 2007 SP5.0
SolidWorks 2008 SP0.1
WinXp sp2 (32 and 64 bit)

RE: Large Assembly Questions

(OP)
Gildashard -
Thanks for listing the specs.  I must say I did not even know that processor speed was able to go that high (3.93).  Is that a factory dell or has it been tweaked?

RE: Large Assembly Questions

While it may be no consolation, this is a common problem in CAD world.

I work with companies using all the common CAD programs and towards project completion when high-level assemblies are being brought together all programs generate same issues.  Unscientifically, I would say Catia V5 is the worst.  All companies seem to adopt IT policies contrary to efficient CAD, and all respond first with more technology infrastructure as the solution.  Several companies I work with outsource this end-of-project CAD integration and drawing creation as their solution: the problem goes away when someone else deals with it.

The only solution that works that I have seen numerous times is for final assembly integration and drawings to be performed locally on a dedicated workstation by a specific individual.  Also, in all situations, the process takes months.

This is not an ideal 'integrated' approach, consequently no company I've worked with plans for this, some eventually adopt it as last resort.  Complicating the impromptu solution is that it's not a nice job so its usually given to a junior, a new hire, a temp: someone without inherent knowledge of the project or company.

I don't know of nor have I seen a real solution.  We all know of poor CAD practices that contribute to the problem, so probably pre-project planning for end-of-project CAD integration is the best solution.

RE: Large Assembly Questions

Jason,

I am with you on opening up files across the network.  We also do not work with a PDM and work across the network.  The speed difference for us is not much different then working local.

We have a top notch network with IT people who have the network setup well.

For us we do just fine with our setup.  So the blanket statement that everyone should work local just doesn't cut it with me.  There are no absolutes.... smile

Just one girl's opinion.

Cheers,

Anna Wood
SW 2007 SP4.0, WinXP
Dell Precision 380, Pentium D940, 4 Gigs RAM, FX3450
http://designsmarter.typepad.com/solidmuse
http://www.phxswug.com

RE: Large Assembly Questions

oops....that should have been 2.93ghz.

Jason

SolidWorks 2007 SP5.0
SolidWorks 2008 SP0.1
WinXp sp2 (32 and 64 bit)

RE: Large Assembly Questions

(OP)
2.93, Bummer, 3.93 sounded better :)

RE: Large Assembly Questions

There's always overclocking shocked.

Jason

SolidWorks 2007 SP5.0
SolidWorks 2008 SP0.1
WinXp sp2 (32 and 64 bit)

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