Signing and Sealing Drawings
Signing and Sealing Drawings
(OP)
I work for a 501c3 non-profit company. The focus of the entity is not engineering but I find myself in a position where I need to sign and seal drawings that will be submitted for permit and eventually bid.
I have informed the upper management that we need E&O insurance. Is there anything else that would preclude an engineer from signing and sealing drawings, i.e., that nature of the work performed in the company, etc?
As an academic matter, could one sign drawings if not employed by anyone, as a sole proprietor, with simply E&O insurance?
I have sifted through the posts but was not able to distill all of the information. Sorry if this post is redundant.
Thanks for any thoughts!
I have informed the upper management that we need E&O insurance. Is there anything else that would preclude an engineer from signing and sealing drawings, i.e., that nature of the work performed in the company, etc?
As an academic matter, could one sign drawings if not employed by anyone, as a sole proprietor, with simply E&O insurance?
I have sifted through the posts but was not able to distill all of the information. Sorry if this post is redundant.
Thanks for any thoughts!





RE: Signing and Sealing Drawings
You may get more answers in the Ethics forum.
RE: Signing and Sealing Drawings
If you sign, you need insurance.
TTFN
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RE: Signing and Sealing Drawings
RE: Signing and Sealing Drawings
TTFN
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RE: Signing and Sealing Drawings
I definitely wouldn't sign a drawing without insurance (either through the company or individually). It seems to me that one can legally sign and seal drawings (with a licence, naturally) regardless of the nature of work performed by the employer. If one were employed by a convenience store and had a PE (this is just to illustrate my point) you could sign/seal drawings for the store provided they had E&O insurance.
RE: Signing and Sealing Drawings
The only exceptions are for those working in states with industrial exemptions, although, my guess is that when it comes to buildings and electrical, my company would go outside, even if we had PEs internally, which we do. It's just that they don't regularly do structural drawings or designs, so that's a big risk, all by itself.
TTFN
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RE: Signing and Sealing Drawings
SiPaul, if the "store" has E&O insurance, read the language very carefully to be sure you will be covered. Insurance companies charge different premiums when specific names are covered as opposed to all individuals who sign for the "store".
RE: Signing and Sealing Drawings
In many US states, to offer engineering services to the public, you need to also have a corporate license to do business in that state as a professional firm. This is usually outlined on the engineering board websites, etc. and also you can verify this via the state's secretary of state office.
Now if you are with a non-profit, as you say, then it may be that you don't have to do this as you are not offering to practice engineering to the public.
Is your engineering work for the non-profit? Or is the non-profit somehow, and for some reason, providing engineering services to others?
RE: Signing and Sealing Drawings
In this case I am simply doing the work for the non-profit with which I am employeed. There is no 'service' being offered to an outside entity. We simply need to provide some plans and specs. for permit and bid (civil site work). I have almost 20 years experience with this type of work and feel very comfortable preparing the drawings/specs.
To your other point about not being in 'business' to do that type of work. This has been a concern of mine but I don't see any reason that a PE can't perform work regardless of the nature of the business (re. my store analogy above). If this was a problem, we could set up a subsidiary that only does design work for the non-profit...probably a questions for the attorneys.
RE: Signing and Sealing Drawings
RE: Signing and Sealing Drawings
TTFN
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RE: Signing and Sealing Drawings
I think talking to the company lawyer is a good ideal too. Who's going to sue you? The owner? That's you.
The contractor may be unhappy but you can write the contract to allow for changes in design and scope during construction.
Will the public be in danger? If it's a storage building that's no, if an office building it's yes.
Even Non profit organizations have insurance. Your organization may have a blanket type policy that covers what your going to do.
If your the only engineer I would advise you to hire another engineer to review your work. There is only a few of us that can do complete jobs and never make a mistake <%^)]. Having someone else review your work is the cheapest insurance you can buy.
RE: Signing and Sealing Drawings
For example, a structural engineer may stamp the construction documents for his own office building.
RE: Signing and Sealing Drawings
RE: Signing and Sealing Drawings
You need insurance to pay for the lawyers to defend against that possibility. Anything that involves the public, even a pedestrian walking on the sidewalk outside your house, can result in a lawsuit, which is one of the reasons why we buy homeowner's insurance.
TTFN
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RE: Signing and Sealing Drawings
You would also have to comply with local city, county, State, and Federal regulations relating to running a business, even though it may be non-profit. This would involve obtaining any appropriate Business licenses and obtaining a Federal Tax ID number.
Mike McCann
McCann Engineering
RE: Signing and Sealing Drawings
I would interpret it as saying that a person planning or designing a public or private structure is by the above definition a PE, unless exempted through the state's industrial exemption.
TTFN
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RE: Signing and Sealing Drawings
RE: Signing and Sealing Drawings
In Manitoba Canada to get a license to sell engineering services a minimum amount of E&O insurance is mandatory.
However if you are an employee acting in the course of your employment then you should be protected under the master servant rule of law. If the local rules are that E&O insurance is required by your employer then if you knowingly violate that rule then the protection may not apply. Even if the insurance is not required then it may be prudent depending on the risk.
Depending on the amount of stamping required it may not be economical to get the insurance and simply subcontract the work requiring stamping to a consulting firm.
Check with your local association and a lawyer for your local laws and regulations.
Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng
Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
www.kitsonengineering.com