Ponding next to drainage basin
Ponding next to drainage basin
(OP)
Hi everybody
Currently I am designing a drainage system for a commercial site, which is located an rural area without any adjacent buildings, we have no restriction for extending our site, so if we need we can use surroundings lands, but problem is that all the proposed and predeveloped area's water is ponding just next to the site and it seems to be no way to get out of that water, my question is what system can I use for keeping and discharging that water, I am thinking about a system with evaporation and detention pond together, but there is problem about detention pond water to discharge.
Currently I am designing a drainage system for a commercial site, which is located an rural area without any adjacent buildings, we have no restriction for extending our site, so if we need we can use surroundings lands, but problem is that all the proposed and predeveloped area's water is ponding just next to the site and it seems to be no way to get out of that water, my question is what system can I use for keeping and discharging that water, I am thinking about a system with evaporation and detention pond together, but there is problem about detention pond water to discharge.





RE: Ponding next to drainage basin
The simple solution is to purchase the area where water ponds and excavate as necessary to hold the additional volume, but of course this is not necessarily viable if the area is a wetland. If it's a karst area then a Class V injection well in the retention basin would help infiltration, but if it's not a defined sinkhole it can be fun trying to excavate to bedrock to correctly install the injection well.
RE: Ponding next to drainage basin
What laws govern your design ?
Is water ponding because your project has blocked the natural flow or is this a natural low area which would pond water whether or not your project is built ?
You need to know what you can legally do before proposing any technical solution.
good luck
RE: Ponding next to drainage basin
Subsurface condition
Our exploration generally ecointered 2 subsurface soil units at the site: 1) uncontrolled fill 2)alluvium.
Groundwater levels were measured in the piezometer on august 29, 2006 to be about 5 1/2 feet below existing ground surface. however based on our site experience gorund water can rise seasonally about 2 feet.
we encountered alluvium in each of the exploration locations consisting of clay.Generally the alluvium transitioned from hard to very soft at around 15 feet.
thanks for quick relpy
RE: Ponding next to drainage basin
If you are in the U.S. as you say, and the area is a wetland, as shown or catalogged by the State of Washington you ARE subject to both State and Federal law regarding wetlands. You must either avoid disturbing the wetland, hire a wetlands expert to certify that it is not a wetland, or provide additional wetland area to compensate for any wetland destroyed by your construction.
Your project is under someone's jurisdiction.... probably Spokane County. You should contact them and discuss what you would like to do and what they will ALLOW you to do.
good luck
RE: Ponding next to drainage basin
RE: Ponding next to drainage basin
"I am sure that the wetland in the project area is not under any jurisdiction, By studying more I found out that there is a creek nearby, is it possible to discharge the water by a channal to the creek? "
What makes you "sure" the wetland is not under anyone's jurisdiction ? Have you asked the County ? the City ? the State of Washington ? or the Corps of Engineers? Do not proceed unless and until you do. I work on Oregon where the Agency resonsible for wetlands regulation is the Division of State Lands. There must be a parallel agency in Washington.
Not sure what you mean by "studying more". Have you been to the site ? If not go there. It is suicide in Civil Engineering to fail to visit the site. One site visit would probably have told you there was a nearby creek and saved whatever "studying" you did. If your site drains naturally to that creek you can probably, in fact you almost certainly must, drain to it. State drainage law will probably require this.
good luck
RE: Ponding next to drainage basin
RE: Ponding next to drainage basin
Wetlands are definitely regulated, and there are more stringent NPDES (Construction Stormwater Permit) requirements, too.
RE: Ponding next to drainage basin
RE: Ponding next to drainage basin
RE: Ponding next to drainage basin
My question is can I apply infiltration on evaporation pond? if we can which months of the year infiltration exist with regarding Eastern Washington state climate?
What another method do you guys suggest to decrease the depth of the pond?
RE: Ponding next to drainage basin
I do not have experience designing evaporation basins, so I'd be interested to know what the standard is for design storm duration, as you're not going to get much evaporation while it's still raining and in Washington State I bet it can rain an inch or two a day for over a week... not to mention snow melt.
If you want to decrease the depth of the pond, make it wider or longer.
RE: Ponding next to drainage basin
(a) double check the wetland status of the standing water area you described - a wetland delineation by a consultant would be in order because you don't want the inspector bringing this up during construction. THis recently happened in Seattle, no wetland delineation was done because the designers were *sure* that the new training center was not in a wetland, now the city has spent like $6,000,000 to restore impacted areas after being sued.
(b) Review the Ecology Stormwater Management Manual for Eastern Washington. This addresses when you can release water to streams with/without detention, and there are lots of special cases for Eastern Washington. Following this manual, even if the local agency does not require it, is likely considered state-of-the-art and will reduce design liability of potential downstream impacts and help you to avoid water rights issues. Reviewing this manual should also inform you as to terms more consistent with the practice; "evaporation pond" is not a standard BMP; referring to your facilities using the standard terms will help reviewers and this forum to understand your stormwater management design.
RE: Ponding next to drainage basin
RE: Ponding next to drainage basin
Your question about the pond, you should be asking the local county drain commission those questions. You might think you have a great design and they will rip it apart because it doesn't meet their standards. It sounds like you are ignoring the fact that you will have regulations and reviews on your site to deal with. Get the proper government agencies involved asap.
RE: Ponding next to drainage basin
RE: Ponding next to drainage basin
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Interesting. You might want to review: "Wisconsin v. Environmental Protection Agency, et al", US Supreme Court, Docket No 01-1247.
Or, you could contact US Army Corps of Engineers Seattle District Regulatory Branch (http:
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tsgrue: site engineering, stormwater
management, landscape design, ecosystem
rehabilitation, mathematical simulation
http://hhwq.blogspot.com