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It's like I didn't leave my last employer
3

It's like I didn't leave my last employer

It's like I didn't leave my last employer

(OP)
My old boss is telling his clients that I'm on a leave of absence, when in fact I'm starting my own company.  He is aware that I'm not coming back.  On top of that, my email account is still active and he has been receiving those emails for the last two months.  

I've been trying to see if this is ethical for him to be doing, but I haven't had any luck.  I really would prefer him to stop.  He is worried that I'm marketing to his clients, which I haven't even though I have every right to do it.  

Maybe this is like double jeopardy, since I've already been convicted of the crime, maybe I should actually commit it.  Sorry for the rant.

Any suggestions?

RE: It's like I didn't leave my last employer

The company owns your email address on their domain, not much you can do about that.  I would make those clients aware that you have left, that's not solicitation.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

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RE: It's like I didn't leave my last employer

1.   I would think your boss can tell people anything he wants...but as time goes by he's going to look quite foolish to his clients when he claims that your on a leave while you are handing out to these same clients your new business card and telling them, "no, I'm not with them anymore."

2.   Keep your eyes open on this though.  Recieving emails on your old account may not be an ethical issue, but responding back to the the sender as though YOU were responding is unethical.  If you have any evidence of this then I'd go on the attack.

RE: It's like I didn't leave my last employer

"On top of that, my email account is still active"
Do you mean the account allocated to you for your previous company business use or a personal one created by you?

cheers

RE: It's like I didn't leave my last employer

Would it be ethical to contact some of those former clients to let them know you're no longer with the company?

Don't say anything about starting your own place just make sure they know you aren't there.  It's egg on your ex bosses face but at the same time, I think what he is doing is un-ethical.

My sister in law was in a similar position, though in sales.  She left the company because she was tired of things that were going on (money to pay for new age consultants but not to pay for sales leads or some staffs wages).

The management were telling clients she was still with them and she was getting phonecalls on her personal cell from those clients.

I can't remember all she did but she did put a message on here voicemail that made it sound like the phone was disconnected.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: It's like I didn't leave my last employer

On the other hand, if your business doesn't work out, your boss may well be in a position to take you back; if that is a good safety net for you, then don't upset him.

But it seems you think he has some worries about some of his business going to you; he might well feel that there is no room for sentiment in business and if some of his customers could one day be yours then you do need to be careful.

JAE makes an excellent point about how emails to your account at your old company are handled.

The fact that you know the account is still active and you know what he is saying to your old clients suggests you have a pipeline into the company and it might not hurt to find out a bit more and go get some legal advise if you think anything he is doing could be harmful to your prospects.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: It's like I didn't leave my last employer

My advice to you is to let it go.  What goes around comes around.  

If you choose to concentrate on the petty things of the business like this that will not make you money, you will fail.  Concentrate on creating your own clients and market.  To qoute a movie line from the past, "If you build  it, they will come."

Just build your business, and your good reputation.

Mike McCann
McCann Engineering

RE: It's like I didn't leave my last employer

What your boss is doing is definitely unethical.  Telling the truth is ethical lying is not.

What your old boss is doing may also be ilegal Since he is trying to create the impression you still have ties to your old company, he maybe commiting fraud.  However to be sure you would have to contact a laywer.

My best advice would be to ignore the whole issue as much as possible.  Among some of the best advice I have ever received was, People with class act with class.  I received this reply when I asked my boss who just laid me off how others in the same situation were reacting.  While others were getting mad at my boss I treated him like I always did.  There was no use making him feel uncomfortable, when he had no choice in the fact he had to lay off half of his staff.

I would however be sure to give a new business card to any of your old clients you run into.  I would not go out of my way to track them down however.

It may be likely that some of your old clients will seek you out.  In the past they may have stayed with your old company because they trusted you and enjoyed working with you.  

RE: It's like I didn't leave my last employer

Telling clients that you are still with the company is not cool.

If he will tell that lie, what other lies is he telling?

Looking at your old e-mail inbox is, I think, ok.  It is possible that your contacts that may not know you have left, are trying to communicate with your old firm through you.  The firm has a legitimate right to those communications.  No different from someone calling on the phone to ask for you, and the receptionist putting the call through to the ex-boss.

However, if I were in your shoes, I would spread that old e-mail address around to every questionable web site, marketing site, mailing list and whatever that I could find.  Your ex-boss will quickly tire of wading through the spam, and the IT department will cut the account off due to the excess traffic.

RE: It's like I didn't leave my last employer

I believe that this is a lesson for everybody:
When you leave a job, be sure that you send a communication to all your professional contacts informing the fact.
Like that, there will be no situations like this.
There is a recent trend on this subject also.

Now, I agree with some of the respondents: even if annoying, I wouldn't actively do anything to confront my ex-boss, but I would be sure that everytime I meet a client to tell him about my new comapny. Engineering world is samIs just a quesiton of time that everybody knows that your ex-boss is lying regarding your presence in the company.

Godd luck with your new entreprise and worry about making $$$ and build a reputation. Leave the non-revenue issues in the bottom of your to-do list.

RE: It's like I didn't leave my last employer

Keeping your old email account alive for a time after you have left is common - in case someone didn't get the notice that you have left the company and is trying to get a hold of you. We moved into a new office building, and still get clients of the previous tenant coming in. We re-direct them to the new address of the previous tenant.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
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RE: It's like I didn't leave my last employer

I have the last engineers email forwarded to me... I am suprized some times.... but his account is still open after over 6 months

RE: It's like I didn't leave my last employer

A very curt email which alludes to the fact that may consult with a lawyer should be more than enough.

RE: It's like I didn't leave my last employer

Did your old email account have a Webmail access option?  If so, go into it and create a Rule that auto-replies that you have left the company.  

RE: It's like I didn't leave my last employer

I'm pretty sure that the company owns the email address and that once you have left you have absolutely no right to use it or read it.

I'd /guess/ that you could even be legally liable if you behaved as MJ suggested.

Cheers

Greg Locock

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RE: It's like I didn't leave my last employer

Sounds like a fun case to argue in court.  There's no doubt that the DOMAIN name is owned by the company.  

However, YOUR name is always your property, as are your images, etc., so the email address is certainly a usage of your name without your permission, and you should be recompensed for that usage, and/or damages/economic losses to your business.

TTFN

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RE: It's like I didn't leave my last employer

First company to bitten by the implications of the workers name in the email address would probably
(a) get you to sign a waver as part of your employment contract
(b) insist that your name is not part of the email assigned to you. So, you could become a number and not a free man.
The worker rarely wins, maybe a minor battle but never a war.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: It's like I didn't leave my last employer

Fair enough. My legal name is not glocock, so I don't think I could succesfully argue in court that an unsigned email from glocock@bigbadcompany.com is an abuse of my identity, sadly.

Cheers

Greg Locock

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RE: It's like I didn't leave my last employer

I don't think that it necessarily has to be your legal name.  

As with trademarks, if your email address is synonymous with you to the public or to the customers, a smart lawyer ought to be able to argue that point in your favor.

TTFN

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RE: It's like I didn't leave my last employer

Smart = expensive
Expensive = company lawyers. Teams of them on retainer at all times and very eager to accrue some billable hours.
Nice idea but I stand by my earlier comment that any such success would be very quickly nipped in the bud.
It isn't in anyone's interests that employees should "own" their company email address nor have any legal rights over it.
On the other hand, it is quite possible that the email address constitutes a quasi-legal identity which is the employee entitled to use it and thus its continued use by a company could, in circumstances as suggested by RARSWC, could be argued to be actionable by the employee.

I'd guess we could have a pretty good stab at drawing up a "code of practice" for engineers.

It seems that a fair and logical interpretation should be that the company owns all email addresses that include the companies domain name but that is is for the use of the eponymous employee and represents him as a legal entity during his employment.

Thus:
  • joe.bloggs@major company.com is the quasi-legal identity of Joe Bloggs while he works for Major Company and Major Company owns the email provided for the official use by Joe Bloggs on company business but not to be used for any other business nor for private use.
  • joe.bloggs@ MSN.com has no status in any way for Major Company and possibly not for any one specific Joe Bloggs
  • info@major company.com etc. is the exclusive property of Major Company no matter which employess may use that email and whether on legitimate company business or not, it does not constitute any "rights" for the employee using it and nor may he use it in any way upon termination, not even to advise he is leaving nor even if it is the only email address that he has use off during his employment.
When Joe Bloggs leaves, he may email all currently active recipients, that is, recipients related to active projects, to advise he is leaving. This should be a recognised standard message unless otherwise agreed with the Major Company. He may not configure any auto responders nor otherwise take any other steps.

Major Company may leave the email account open for the express purpose of receiving incoming emails to which they may respond from another email address such as info@MajorCompany.com to advise that this email account is no longer active. Again standard message.

Joe Bloggs may not download his email address book except with the express consent of Major Company to any or all address, and ditto any correspondence. Joe Bloggs may not divert any mail from Joe.Bloggs at Major Company.com to any other non-authorised email account nor may he legally accessthis account once he has left the company.

Once the employee leaves the company, the company no longer has any right to issue emails using the employees name account address, nor create any new alternative name account addresses that use any variation of the employees name, but it may continue to receive emails expressly for the purpose of advising the sender of the changed status of the employee and that such emails might need to be responded to from a new email address.

It would seem that an semi-standard response ought not to evoke any "reading between the lines" and should fulfil the legitimate objectives of the employee and company.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: It's like I didn't leave my last employer

Only slightly related...last week I was sick on and off.  One morning, after being up all night, I emailed my boss from my home email account to say I'd be in late and why (since the boss signs the time sheet where sick leave is distinguished from other leave).

Instead of composing an email to others in the office saying "Hg won't be in till XYZ", he forwarded my email but edited it to say something else (taking out some confidential information, but also changing my anticipated return time/day).  He left the "forwarded from hg@home.com" on top and my name at the bottom, and edited the part in between, so it looked like his words were mine.  When I showed up that afternoon, everyone was confused because they'd seen an email FROM ME that said I wasn't coming in till the next day.

I tried explaining to him how inappropriate this was but all he could see was that what I had sent him (when I was mailing in sick at 6 AM) wasn't very well written or understandable.

Unbelievable.  Actually, sadly, quite believable.

Hg

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RE: It's like I didn't leave my last employer

I'd think the issue would be the fact that someone else is in a position to represent themselves as you. This could exploit or damage your professional reputation.

I think this is an excellent argument for sending your clients a brief notice when you leave a firm.

RE: It's like I didn't leave my last employer

When i was laid off by a company, I sent a mass email to my entire customer base (which happend to also be in my technical society data base as I was an officer) just informing them that I was no longer with the company and I would contact them later.

Later I sent an email to the primary account contacts with my home contact information which they already had.

Once I found a job, I sent an email to the technical society menbers with my new job contact information.

Before I sent out the new job contact info, I was contacted by a large number of the people requesting the info.  So it pays to be acive in a technical society in your field.

Ken

Ken
KE5DFR

RE: It's like I didn't leave my last employer

You will not regret limiting your comments about your past employer to his positive attributes.  If asked why you left, develop an honest but basic answer like "I wanted to try other things".  If it is true you can even express you appreciation for everything he had done for you.  DO NOT touch his property/email, it isn't worth testing the legality.  When we left we found that our past employer was calling his clients and asking if we had called them and bad mouthed him.  He suggested he had reports of such activity.  One client had the gumption to call us and ask us if this were true and we expressed our disappointment and explained that my business partner and I had discussed at length the preservation of his reputation.  He's now a full time client.  Not many asked why we started our own company, but those that do I respond to with " We were like Teenagers, we thought we had all the answers and had to leave the nest to figure out how little we knew.  Accountants are expensive, servers are expensive, training employees is expensive...  Throughout the years we maintained that reason and I believe that it has been a good decision.  Remember when two people have an ugly fight, all anyone really remembers is that you two were fighting.  It reflects poorly on the profession.   
 

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