"celebrities" in engineering?
"celebrities" in engineering?
(OP)
I wasn't sure where to post this question, this section ended up as the logical choice... ;)
I'm sure we often encounter TV shows, interviews in the newspapers etc where "famous people" and "celebrities" are asked for their opinions on such and such, general things...
Very often, subjects of this media attention are musicians, writers, all kinds of artists, some just very rich people, sometimes famous scientists, physicians, psychologists, CEOs of big companies, other (famous) reporters... but very, very rarely - engineers? Even when doing a report on offshore pipe laying or automotive, they'll typically "expose" the management and the "common worker", not the engineers...
Also, in general public, nearly everyone will be familiar with names of various artists, scientists, etc. but mention an engineer's name? Maybe Diesel and Tesla will ring a Bell, ( ;) ), but mention "Otto" (or even "Otto's engine")and very rare people will know who he was and what kind of an engine it really is.
I'd like your opinion on this? Are people generally not interested in engineers, is there simply not enough engineers to "go around" as "famous"? Were there any "famous" engineers, and what are their names? I'd love to read up on their biographies etc, and learn something about them...
I'm sure we often encounter TV shows, interviews in the newspapers etc where "famous people" and "celebrities" are asked for their opinions on such and such, general things...
Very often, subjects of this media attention are musicians, writers, all kinds of artists, some just very rich people, sometimes famous scientists, physicians, psychologists, CEOs of big companies, other (famous) reporters... but very, very rarely - engineers? Even when doing a report on offshore pipe laying or automotive, they'll typically "expose" the management and the "common worker", not the engineers...
Also, in general public, nearly everyone will be familiar with names of various artists, scientists, etc. but mention an engineer's name? Maybe Diesel and Tesla will ring a Bell, ( ;) ), but mention "Otto" (or even "Otto's engine")and very rare people will know who he was and what kind of an engine it really is.
I'd like your opinion on this? Are people generally not interested in engineers, is there simply not enough engineers to "go around" as "famous"? Were there any "famous" engineers, and what are their names? I'd love to read up on their biographies etc, and learn something about them...





RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
If my next child is a girl, I may name her after Katherine Stinson. Forget Amelia Earhart, all she did was fly. Stinson designed her own planes!
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Tesla, for the most part, is not really well-known for his engineering accomplishments, but for his more paranormal and supernatural activities, ala his cameo in "The Prestige." Note that Tesla is labeled as the "acclaimed physicist" in the Wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_prestige#Synopsis
One "engineer" of relatively great fame is Lemuelson, since his alleged manipulation of the patent system afforded him millions in royalties that are tightly managed and doled out to unsuspecting students as a great benefaction.
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RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Charles Culp
Design Engineer - Solidworks User
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Got this as an attachment last year and it is so true.
Mike McCann
McCann Engineering
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Mike McCann
McCann Engineering
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Here are some notables (for good or bad):
Herbert Hoover - mining engineer.
Douglas MacArthur was a civil engineer, although early in his military career. His first assignment was constructing docks in the Philipines.
Robert E. Lee was also a civil engineer.
Boris Yeltsin - civil engineer.
Da Vinci
Let's not forget (although I wish we could) Yasser Arafat, Osama Bin Laden, and Mahmoud Ahmaninejad (PhD no less); all civil engineers.
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Sorry a little off topic, but I get frustrated when people infer that people without engineering degrees aren't engineers - especially someone as brilliant as Edison.
Mechanical Engineer/Consultant
Medical Devices
"When I am working on a problem, I do not think of beauty, but when I've finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong."
- R. Buckminster Fuller
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
I would name Karl Terzhagi and Stephen Timoshenko as some big names, and T Y Lin and Charles Thornton for well known practicing structural engineers. Leslie Robertson may end up being somewhat famous though not as he would want to be known.
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Edison, regardless of what you call him, engineer, inventor, or moocher, is well known to the man, or woman, or even child on the street. The typical 6th grade will have at least heard of Edison, and possibly even Tesla, but not Timoshenko.
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RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
This of course is another huge thread in its own right. What makes for a "real engineer"? The work done? The degree? A professional engineer license?
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Douglas MacArthur and Robert E. Lee were not civil engineers. They were military engineers. Apparently, almost all the West Point graduate officers of the American Civil War were trained as engineers. Very few of them were rigorously trained in the "art of war", which is why they had problems with people like Nathan Bedford Forrest. For George MacLellan was very compentent at everything he did with the one exception of commanding the Army of the Potomac in battle.
Civil engineers are engineers not trained by the military.
JHG
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Does that mean that they cannot build the same things? I believe semantics are at play here.
"if you say Edison wasn't an engineer because he had no degree, then why did you list DaVinci?"
Da Vinci had formal schooling in engineering. Why not consider Edison a scientist; he was?
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Let's face it, the problem is that engineers are anonymous and very very few will have any kind of celebrity status.
It might be nice to change this but such a change could only come about if the status of engineers in society should change.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
I would disagree that Edison was a scientist because he was actually designing products rather than doing pure research. But I suppose it all depends on your definitions of these terms.
By the way, I say "DaVinci" so that no one will think that I'm talking about Leonardo from Caprio.
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
I have two colleagues who graduated West Point; they call themselves civil engineer.
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
The cited examples of Brunel, who designed public structures, and Watt, who invented the steam engine, were only known the context of their works. Watt and Brunel are essentially anonynous to the general public now; Watt is only a unit of power, or worse, a unit of energy, to the general public. If pressed, they might remember learning about Watt's steam engine in history, but, given that a sizable portion of the US populace thought that New Mexico was foreign country, it's unlikely.
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RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Alexander Graham Bell
George Eastman
Thomas Edison
Henry Ford
Charles Goodyear
Cyrus McCormick
Samuel F. B. Morse
James Watt
George Westinghouse
Eli Whitney
Wright brothers
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
As in the case of the verb "to xerox," Xerox Corp fought a losing battle to protect their trademark. People make "xerox" copies on Canons, Ricohs, etc. You just have to get over it.
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RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
It's not that I'm not "over it". Just pointing out that it's a wrong usage of the term. Anyone speaking Itailian would see it similar to us seeing them use the term:
Of London
for someone like Tony Blair.
Da Vinci was NOT his last name.
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Americans are renowned for butchering other nationalities' languages and names, why stop now?
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RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
JAE - I agree with your comments on Dan Brown.
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
They do function well in technical fields but when they refer to themselves as (pick your discipline) engineers, I smirk and take that with a grain of salt having done both.
rmw
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Mike McCann
McCann Engineering
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Regards,
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
I was refering to the mid-nineteenth century, when engineering was a significant part of training at a military acedemy. If you were an engineer, and you were not trained at a military academy, you were a civil engineer. This distinction is anachronistic, now.
How about Dr. Ferdinand Porsche? I understand his doctorate degree was honorary -- no formal, official university training.
JHG
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
They seem to choose to try and apply what they consider their current definition of Engineer and apply it to people living score if not hundreds of years ago.
I doubt if many of the engineers I listed in my first post had a Bachelors of Engineering (or equivalent) and were Chartered (PE). In my opinion they still get to be engineers.
A lot of members, especially in civil & structural, don't believe that someone is an engineer unless they have a BS/BEng in accredited engineering program and are CEng/PE. This by definition will eliminate most candidates from more than a few decades ago.
As ewh says this horse has long since been flogged off this mortal coil.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Nowadays engineering is much more collaborative and it's harder to point to a single person who was responsible for the channel tunnel, say, or Concorde. There are a few exceptions like Dyson (but then we go back to the "is he an engineer or a designer or an inventor" question), but I think they proove the rule! A similar thing has occured in Science: most celebrity scientists nowadays aren't really famous for their science, but for an different reason such as major disability (Hawkins) or being strindently anti religion (Dawkins).
Incidentally, IK Brunel is pretty well known in the UK due to lots of TV programmes about him and the fact that many of his strucures are still in everyday use: a pal named his son Brunel, and everyone who hears his son's anme for the first time says "oh, after the engineer?"
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
On a different note:
Tesla!!!!!
http://www.teslamotors.com/
Does this make Tesla famous and well known to car enthusists? Oh, and GREEN to boot.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
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RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Frankly, in my opinion, it was due more to the sales pitch made by the relevant presenter, Jeremy Clarkson, than to his inherant superiority over many other contenders.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_Greatest_Britons
None the less, gives us some hope!
http:
Chapter 2 Seems to confirm that IKB did not have an Engineering Degree and did not even take a formal engineering apprenticeship so I suspect many will disqualify him from being an engineer on this basis. He did become a member of the Royal Society
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casey_Jones
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
As would appear from modern TV, a celebrity is anyone who has appeared on TV or in the movies recently.
So unless there has been a TV soap or a recent popular movie with Leonardo Di Caprio playing some engineer, that engineer isn't likely to be a "celebrity".
In other words, they will be a celebrity not for anything they did engineering wise but simply because they've been played on TV or in a film.
But anyway, on that basis I'd include Cathy as a celebrity engineer (played by Jaqueline Bisset) from the film Bullitt.
Loved the film but did anyone else find it painful watching Cathy coach Steve to help her with a pipe flow calculation?
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36MFh4of6lE
Some people say that the sounds are not those of the cars shown.... comments?
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
You make the question: why aren't their celebrated, famous engineers out there?
I think the answer lies in the fact that "celebrity" is by itself a construct of those in the media/arts.
And those in media celebrate THEMSELVES.
i.e. The Oscars, The Emmy's, etc. and all those entertainment shows that focus on....those that entertain.
The general public has very limited exposure to we engineers. Thus, there is very little interest.
And that is a good thing in my opinion.
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Perhaps so.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
noun: a widely known person (Example: "He was a baseball celebrity")
noun: the state or quality of being widely honored and acclaimed
Chuck Yeager is a celebrity, as are Apollo astronauts. What's his name, the screwball ski jumper WAS a celebrity.
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RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer
I looked at several of the engineers I listed originally and Barnes Wallace was the only one that appeared to have a university education.
(I meant to post this yesterday but it ended up on where is engineering going somehow thread730-198841: A list of some famous engineers is)
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
I just don't want to be celebrated by the kind of people who tend to celebrate pondscum - which most actors and media personalities are.
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
http://www.bartleby.com/66/19/38119.html
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RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
This is the public's image of us as peresented by Hollywood.
Then you have the Architect as played in "The Towering Inferno".
Mike McCann
McCann Engineering
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
I just don't think that engineers' accomplishments, particularly contemporary ones, are sufficiently accreditable to a single individual amd can rise about the noise to make it into the spotlight. There's been much todo about "status" of doctors, but very few doctors rise to celebrity status, and it usually for doing something outrageously out of the box, like the Jarvik heart or Bailey, who performed a baboon heart transplant to a human.
In fact, those are good examples of the prerequisites for attaining celebrity; there needs to be a circumstance where the stakes are high and someone is willing to take on the risks. This points out two strikes against engineers for getting there, stakes are generally low and engineers are generally risk-averse. Thus, scientists and the like can attain celebrity when high risks are taken, such as in the case of Neil Armstrong, aeronautical engineer and professor of same:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Armstrong
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RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Adrian Newey (formula 1)
Leonhard Euler (as far as I can tell did all the engineering math ever)
SLH
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Wrote /the/ book on Acoustics more than 100 years ago.
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Still, my point was that Rayleigh's original work is still definitive, and his papers are still referenced in modern day work.
"John William Strutt (Baron Rayleigh), The Theory of Sound, 2nd ed., rev. and enlarged, 2 vol. (1894–96, reissued 1945), remains a most important historical authority on nearly all aspects of theoretical acoustics. "
says the almost-as-innaccurate-as-wiki encyclopaedia.
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedy_Lamarr
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Neil Armstrong
Jimmy Carter
Alfred Hitchcock
Grace Hooper (who coined the computer term "bug")
George Ferris
Ryan Newman - NASCAR driver
Sue Ginter-Brooker - professional golfer
Montel Williams
Rowan Atkinson
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Except for those who get the occasional, or frequent, "bump" that brings their thread back to the top of the list.
I hope that the "bug" in Hopper's name was not in the brochure:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper, note that "bug" supposedly was already in wide usage prior to Hopper's discovery of her "bug."
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RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
The term "bug" definitely was used by Alexander Seversky in his 1943 book Victory Through Airpower.
JHG
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
In my experience a lot of military people, not in the engineering areas also have engineering degrees.
I would expect that a lot of famous military people are engineers, Douglas MacArthur has been mentioned.
Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng
Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
www.kitsonengineering.com
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
I hope the following names are accepted as famous chemical engineers:
Arthur D. Little (coined the term unit operations)
Leo Hendrik Baekeland (bakelite)
John von Neumann (aka as mathematician, physicist)
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
If Tesla is not a household name, it is because of Edison's invective against him. Speak of NIH!
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
How sad!
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
How out of date is Corrie? they're not mechanics or motor engineers anymore, they're "Automotive Technicians." They don't need any skills, just the ability to replace everything in sight until the problem has, hopefully, gone away.
Mechanics used to actually find the problem and fix it.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
...so maybe the question should be: How many NOBEL PRIZE winners have attained 'celebrity' status?
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Allan Dwan, Clarence Brown and Frank Capra all were trained as engineers before they became Hollywood movie directors. Dwan and Brown actively practised engineering before they went into the movie business.
Dwan was a movie pioneer and one of the top directors on the silent era. I belive the movie Nickleodeon is based on interviews with him. In early sound he ran afoul of Darryl F. Zanuck and wound up at Republic studios. His one big movie after the thirties was The Sands of Iwo Jima. Brown was mentored by Maurice Tourneur (sp?) and ultimately became Louis B. Meyer's favorite director at MGM.
Frank Capra worked for Columbia Studios where he directed a bunch of classic movies including It Happened One Night and Mr. Smith Goes to Washington.
Nevil Shute was an aerospace engineer.
I understand that none of the Monty Python troupe except the American Terry Gilliam have formal artistic training. Graham Chapman was trained as a physician. Terry Jones has become a fantastic history writer.
There is this idea that artists have to work separate from society, and that they have some sort of special vision. I do not see this. It would a good thing to see people in more walks of life contributing to TV and literature.
JHG
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Worked on Radar during the war and invented geosynchronous communications satellites.
But yes, better known as a science fiction author than engineer....same as Neville Shute Norway fame as a writer.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Steam engineer...
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
OK, his Rolls Royce apprenticeship was interrupted by war, but I'm not sure Fred was formerly educated either..... Bolton and Leeds... something about those Northern shires...
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
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RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
He likely wouldn't meet most people heres definition of an Engineer but I always found him very entertaining and a lot of his shows pertained to Engineering in History. If I remember correctly he designed and built some of the tools he used on his traction engine hobby etc.
He did have 2 doctorates from Engineering schools:
"Fred also previously received two honorary doctorates ..... They were both given by the relevant engineering faculties, but Fred always told people that they were for "back street mechanicing". "
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Our contender for colorful engineering personality might be Bill Nye, The Science Guy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_nye According to the article, Nye was actually an ME working at Boeing, as well as being an engineering consultant.
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RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
As a practical hands on engineer, Fred Dibnah was one of the best.
And he made good tv programmes too...
Blaster Bates was another great entertainer and explosives man, but not necessarily an engineer in the same way as Fred....
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
I would also offer Archimedes as someone who has stood the test of time in terms of name recognition.
Regards,
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
In the movie, he was played by Victor Garber, and I though he did a better job than DeCaprio.
Frank A. Jur, P.E.
Electrical Engineer
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
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RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
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RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fatuous
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
I'm guessing that's how he got the honary PHD, bit like Dibnah.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
I do rather think Clarkson did his Brunel presentation well and with enthusiasm but I suspect he had a team of bright young researchers doing the leg work for him. As a good presenter he can present well without actually understanding a word of what he is saying. Indeed, when he started Top Gear it was said he didn't know a carburettor from a catheter.
I could be wrong, some Jaguar enthusiasts are very unhappy with him lately and may be a bit biased.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
If Rowan Atkinson was a civil engineer, we could have called him Mr Beam...
tg
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Just doesn't work with electrical, mechanical, civil, structural, even aero would have worked, but no not electrical.
Unless it was an electron beam...
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
I'm surprised that nobody here has mentioned the classic distinction between military and civil engineers: Military engineers build weapons, civil engineers build targets...
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
I think that quote is "Mechanical engineers build weapons. Civil engineers build targets."
My understanding of the title "civil engineer" is that they are trained in the same stuff military engineers are, but they are civilians. Most of the West Point graduate generals of the American Civil War were engineers. I would suspect that a lot of World War I generals were engineers. Four years of college should be something more than sword exercises.
JHG
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Recently a few young automobile designers have been so 'honored'.
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
As I understand it military engineers of old covered both of what would now be considered mechanical & civil. They'd design siege engines etc as well as the fortifications they were used against etc.
In the UK at least there are 2 differnt types of Military Engineers. Royal Engineers are basically doing civil engineering. Royal Electrical & Mechanical Engineers do the Electrical & Mechanical stuff.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
It would be an interesting study, to try to correlate 'military success' with 'the proportion of engineers in senior command positions'.
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
I do not know much about Sir John Monash. The Canadian Corps in France in WWI was commanded by Sir Arthur Currie, a fat real estate agent. He consistently got results, so the British military establishment learned to respect him. Most of his grief came from politicians back home.
One has to watch out for national legends. When I was in public school in Canada in the early sixties, we were told that we were the descendents of United Empire Loyalists, and that Canadians made effective soldiers because we spent all our time outdoors, riding and shooting and stuff like that. It turns out that about half of the troops in the Canadian Corps in WWI were born in England. This tells us a lot about immigration to Canada, as well as about the sort of person who enlisted in the army.
Accounts about Monash and Currie point out that each were being considered by David Lloyd George as potential supreme commanders of the British armies in France. It is usually pointed out that both were Lieutenant Generals, and therefore, too juniour for the appointment.
Usually not pointed out is David Lloyd George's political background. He was a left-wing reformer who spent a lot of time prior to the war, supporting union rights. British generals mostly were members of the nobility, so there would have been friction, even if Lloyd George had had confidence in them. Currie and Monash would have provided opportunities to bait upper class twits. One should never disregard office politics.
The best general of the American Civil War probably was Nathan Bedform Forrest. He could barely read and write, so he was not trained as an engineer.
JHG
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
(It's Friday and I'm off so give me a break for being completely off topic
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
So, how are those Red Bulls holding up?
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Howard Hughes = engineer? nope!
...it's true that he attended college (briefly), but he never completed ANY degree...he simply "...hired..." smart people to do the engineering and designing...it's funny what having LOTs of money (Hughes TOOL Company) can do FOR you.
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Trying to imposes todays perceived definitions of "Engineer" on "Engineers" from generations past is unfair at best.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
Mark Webber ... 5th in Barcelona. A good result looking at the traffic ahead of him. Red Bulls have 'wiings' with Adrian Newey.
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
"Scientists and Engineers can never earn
as much as administrators and sales people."
This theorem can be proved mathematically;
Given:
Power = Work / Time and,
Knowledge is Power
Sub knowledge for power yields:
Knowledge = Work/ Time
If time = money, Sub time for money yielding:
Knowledge = Work/ Money
Solving this equation for money, we obtain:
Money = Work/ Knowledge
Therefore, as knowledge approaches zero, money approaches infinity, regardless of the amount of work done.
Conclusion: the less you know, the more you make.
B.Eng (Carleton)
Working in New Zealand, thinking of my snow covered home...
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
But don't forget, both of them had the same basic education as Roger Staubach so where does that tell us?
rmw
RE: "celebrities" in engineering?
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