High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
(OP)
$234 million!! High bid wins...go figure.
http:// enr.constr uction.com /news/tran sportation /archives/ 070920.asp
http://
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High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
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RE: High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
RE: High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
Never, but never question engineer's judgement
RE: High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
Points are given for having proposal sections that cover specific items requested. Obviously, there are always subjective undertones, but with a large enough review group, consensus can usually be achieved on the score to give for each section.
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RE: High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
Technical points are assigned for, in this case,
50% quality,
20% Aesthetics,
and the remaining 30% made up of public relations and stuff along that line. To call it technical is really a misnomer.
You can find this out at the MnDOT website.
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RE: High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
Is this a design-build contract?
Mike McCann
McCann Engineering
RE: High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
RE: High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
ENR - I-35W Bidders Question "Best Value" Protocol
RE: High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
Since the bridge has fell down this has become a political football. At first the DOT was trying to quickly replace the bridge to restore traffic flow on I-35. The next thing that happens is that the mayor is pushing for a light rail lane, other groups for a bike path while others want to make an architectural statement.
There has been a lot of speculation on what caused the bridge to collapse. The cause was politicians spend tax money on stadiums and their other pet projects instead of providing the funds needed to maintain bridges and roads.
RE: High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
It is surprising how large the difference in technical scores were. Apparently, the selected firm has had more experience on this type of project and was able to present themselves well in the context of the proposal requirements. The firms not selected have had a good history in the classic "design, low bid and build according to the plans" method, but unfortunately may not have looked as close at the proposal requirements and opportunities.
It is also interesting that there was little mention of the selection method at the beginning of the process. - I guess it would have been bad news for a politician to make comments before an event (selection), when it is safer after the event.
I guess the public arena is geared for the "boy scout" method of design, low bidder and force compliance and has a difficult time using some of the tools private firms have when they hire contractors that are not the low builder. They can choose designer/builders can give better performace/product and more flexibility for the money within the scope of the project needs.
RE: High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
The technical score was subjective and we won't really know anything about it until or if the documents are released that give an idea as to what really happened.
And lastly from a bird's eye view, allocation of tax payer money for corporate welfare or other pet projects always trumps infrastructure.
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RE: High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
On a side note, the bridge near here they recently designed has run way over budget and way way over schedule. I hope the people of MN will have better luck!
RE: High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
RE: High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
Evaluating proposals is subjective ... plans and budgets are one thing, proven performance to plan is another. If you black out the company names on the bids you'd probably go with the lowest bid; 'cause you've lost that link to performance. I guess if you have several reviewers, and maybe (like ice skating) throw out the highest and lowest scores you get a less personally biased subjective view (maybe you get the subjective view of the group of reviewers?) but probably none of the reviewers would recognise the outcome ?
RE: High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
RE: High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
As to concrete being the material of choice, there is, of course, subjectivity to what an aesthetic bridge is. But generally speaking steel is very competitive and also attractive in 100' to 600' spans as beam bridges. Precast concrete beams (segmental or otherwise) isn't that competitive until you have many, many spans and even then it is mainly limited to 400' spans. Steel arches and single span trusses are the norm from 600' to 1000' and then cable stay bridges become more cost efficient at 1000' and above, but both concrete and steel are again choices.
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RE: High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
RE: High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
In our state, some steel bridge designs have been sometimes replaced with this type of bridge based on cost savings, long term maintenance, etc.
RE: High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
But those beam bridges go to about 130-150' and then it's steel. Larger concrete beam bridges (the segmental type) can reach about 400' using precast concrete and 500'-700' when using cast-in-place concrete.
CIP segmental bridges can take a long time to construct and that is why I think the 3 of 4 contractors on i35 went with steel. That main span was originally 450' or so.
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RE: High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
Mike McCann
McCann Engineering
RE: High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
Here's an abstract that mentions this: http://cedb.asce.org/cgi/WWWdisplay.cgi?9703293
RE: High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
I've heard of this before, not necessarily on this type of contract though.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
I've also been involved in many river crossing where a steel alternate and concrete alternate have been included in the bid documents and find that many times the steel alternate is chosen, some times no bids were even received on the concrete alternate.
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RE: High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
RE: High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
It was just a section of the bridge (not the whole thing)
But a lot of fatalities (57). Not good.
RE: High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
But I do agree that the evaluation criteria should be made public given such a spread in the scores, especially since three of the four are reasonably close and the outlier is so high.
-
Aercoustics.com
RE: High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project
http://
OK...two to four years later, after the lawyers get rich, they start replacing the bridge, right?
RE: High Bid gets the MN Bridge Project