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Classification of Vessels under PED

Classification of Vessels under PED

Classification of Vessels under PED

(OP)
Here's a good one,

The new pressure equipment directive (97/23/EC) requires that vessels be categorized by the fluid they are designed to contain, the basis being that higher the risk the greater the level of notified body involvement. No problem so far.

How does this work for proprietary items? When the product is designed, manufactured and tested without any knowledge of the final use. Also, in some industries the fluids are changed constantly, especially for testing and development of new solutions. So how is this accommodated in the PED.

The web site (http//ped/eurodyn.com) used to have a link to ask questions, they updated the site around christmas and removed the link. How now do we bug them??

Any solutions or thoughts would be gratefully appreciated.

Fawkes.

RE: Classification of Vessels under PED

Hi just got to this thread, I do have a contact for you please call me. I do not wish to put this persons name up. He has pressure vessel signature rights for Europe. He is located here in the United States and is very good to work with.

Christopher Caserta
ccaserta@enorthhampton.com
Ph:904-225-0360

RE: Classification of Vessels under PED

Hi
In the instructions for use and maintenance (which you have to submit with the vessel) you can make limitations in the use of the vessel, such as kinds/groups of fluids, maximum temperature and pressure etc.
And if the final user choose to use the vessel outside these limits he have to take over the responsibility as a manufacturer himself, and make a new CE declaration of conformity.

RE: Classification of Vessels under PED

(OP)
laphroig,

Identifying a group of liquids is not practical for us, we sell so many units 'off-the-shelf'. However, we have also gone down the route of placing qualifying text in the IOMs and on order acknowledgements (so they become part of the contract). This seems like the only reasonable solution.

The biggest problem with the PED is that it has been rushed through and every body seems to agree that CEN should take a long hard look at what they've created.

Fawkes

RE: Classification of Vessels under PED

I have no better answer at the moment.
But there must be an straight way trough this. When you buy valves, safteyvalves and other inline equipment which has to be CE-marked You allways (almost) "take it from shell".
As I live and work in Europe I will try to check it up.
And it's not CEN who is responsibly for PED.
PED is an European legislation set in force by Eurpean Parlament. CEN developes harmonised standards which are published and sold by national standard organisations such as SIS in Sweden, BS in Britain.


Laphroaig

RE: Classification of Vessels under PED

(OP)
You're right about the Parliment setting the legislation in place, more-over its the verios secretaries and/or ministers that agree these points. CEN however establishes commitees that develop the standards and my understanding is that it is from the recommendation of these commitees that directives are developed.

If anybody has any clearer description of the method I would love to hear from them.

RE: Classification of Vessels under PED

Hi!
I worked with the PED about 2 years ago.
The text seems to be a legislative one that doesn't give a technical orientations. So the pressure committees or working groups give guidelines to lighten more some confused questions. It is very hard to have an answer from the CEN because the interpretation had to be set up correctly, voted, published, .....
For your case you to start from the begining :
1-Identify the product :
*Nature (pipe, vessel, ...), DN and/or V
*Fluid (take the constraining case)
*The pressure
2-Classify the product following the charts in the annex II
3-Set up a hazard analysis and find solution to met the ESR of annax I. In this stage there lot of things to prepare :
*Material compliance : three options (EAM (no one is  avalailble yet), EN standards, PMA)
*Material certificate : Cat.I : 2.2 report; Cat. II : Product Specific Control with an EU certified quality system material supplier or equivalent.
*Design notice and drawings (all recognized methods are acceptable such as ASME VIII)
*Procedures qualifications (forming and welding) : Cat. I : Internal. Cat .II : NB or TP approved.
*Applicable Conformity requirements : Depends on quality organisation and unit or serial production. for serial production : the quality system had to be certified (cat. II and +)....
*....

I can sent you a summary of the route of marking CE.

Regards,
M.A.
Belgium

RE: Classification of Vessels under PED

(OP)
M.A.

Thanks for your reply,

We don't have any problem with CE marking as such but, lets take an example. We supply a vessel to a customer and they specify the fluid but we are unable to determine the vapour pressure. We do not know at this stage if it should be assessed as a liquid or a gas. If take the worst case of a Group 1 Gas and CE mark the vessel to later find that it should have been assessed as a Group 1 liquid and falls under 'Sound Engineering Practice' then we have broken the law.

This is the problem.

Regards,

Fawkes

RE: Classification of Vessels under PED

You should consider the worst case and cover the large and the constrained applications ( I suppose that you have a serial production). For example if you state in your hazard analysis that the vessel could work with fluid of group 1(that allow you to CE mark it) than you don't care if the enduser will use for water or steam. The most important thing is to analyse the risk when using such fluid and the solution adopted to avoid it. The analysis had to show the limits of the manufacturer and had to be archived.
I have the same case with our products; we supply accesories that worked with steam, air and condensate and for some exceptionnal case with ammonia. I was obliged to declare some product working only with air (hadn't to be marked), others with ammonia (worst case and marking them) and the rest for steam. I do so because I realise that some products are not conform to the ESR and in stead of  to try to modify them, I found easier to keep them out of the application of the PED.  
If you still have any question, don't hesitate to ask.
Regards,
M.A.

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