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Where to Get a PhD

Where to Get a PhD

Where to Get a PhD

(OP)
In 5 years I'll be 59-1/2 and able to live off my IRA and 401K without tax penalties.  At that time I plan to shut my business down and go get a PhD in ME (actually Fluid Mechanics and Thermodynamics).  I don't know if I'll ever teach, but I just don't want to die without completing that task on my to-do list.  I've planned pretty well financially for a retirement of leisure, but as it approaches it looks pretty dull.  

I think I'll probably have the wherewithal to attend any English-speaking PhD program in the world (my language skills are non-existent).  I'm having a really hard time deciding where I want to go.  Does anyone have any suggestions of a really great engineering program in a fantastic location?

David

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
www.muleshoe-eng.com
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RE: Where to Get a PhD

Depends on your definition of great engineering program in a fantastic location but you could obviously consider UK based schools.

I attended University of Southampton and I think it had a pretty good reputation.  The aero department was in the top 5 in the country as I recall.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: Where to Get a PhD

I went to NMSU in Las Cruces! Not far from you. I have been working with student groups at CU in Boulder, that is pretty darn nice school...

Having said that with your interest in machinery, University of Western Australia (Perth)has a nice machinery industrial machinery based ME program. Monash in Victoria Australia has a nice program as well with branch campuses in Malaysia and South Africa. (All english speaking).

"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?" Oddball, "Kelly's Heros" 1970

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RE: Where to Get a PhD

A couple suggestions come to mind.

With the experience you have, you probably have an idea of what you would like to do your thesis on. Do a small literature search (you'll have to do a full one anyway) to see which profs are doing research similar to what you are looking at. Shortlist the universities, look at the areas they are in and call up the profs/departments.

You'll get a better idea of who you want to work with talking directly with them than with listening to posters here (who may have completely different personality types).

RE: Where to Get a PhD

Look around for someone who has research projects that interest you.  Since a large part of a PhD is research work the project you work on will greatly effect what you get out of the degree and how much you enjoy it.

RE: Where to Get a PhD

Dave,

I had the same thought. A good solution is to find a college hat does not require the GRE. One option is Washington state university at Pullman, Washington.

Also, it can also happen that the financial instrument that your 401K/ IRA is based on will wash out.

Good luck.

RE: Where to Get a PhD

(OP)
Thanks for the sunshine Dave.  I've kind of been looking and the GRE requirements seem pretty spotty.  I figure if I have to take it I can prepare the same way I got ready for the PE exam.

I keep vacillating between looking for a "gee whiz" school (like MIT, CalTech, Oxford) and a school in a great place (something with a view of the Great Barrier Reef or the Rockies).  I uncharacteristically just can't prioritize those things.  

I'm arrogant enough to assume that I can satisfy the entry requirements of any school with 5 years to work on it.  So this time the world really is my oyster (before I was mostly concerned about in-state tuition charges as the driving force in my decision).

David

RE: Where to Get a PhD

In your situation I would plump for an Oxbridge college and hone my punting/picnicing/etc skills.  There is just something nice about those places.

RE: Where to Get a PhD

To skip the general requirements you'll need to find a private school.  I went the state route and still am not done with the required testing though I've had the GRE, Entrance exam, qualifiying exam in addition to the exams for courses (21 hours now) and I have a progress exam (3/4 of the way through) and finally the dissertation.

Take a deep breath and sip of coffee before jumping on board.....course if you're like me you'll do it anyway!

Regards,
Qshake
pipe
Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

RE: Where to Get a PhD

David,

For Fluid Mechanics and Thermodynamics, have you looked at University of Wisconsin?  They have one of the best chemical engineering program in the world.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
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RE: Where to Get a PhD

(OP)
epoisses,
My wife and I are in a "discussion" about whether Hawaii counts as a "really cool place".  I think it is (I've been to the big island several times and like it), she's never been there and has no interest in going.  I'll look into the campus you referenced.

Ashereng,
That's what I was looking for, a place I never would have thought of.  I'll look into their program.

David

RE: Where to Get a PhD

I think Hawaii has got it all over Wisconsin in the cool factor though - unless you count freezing temperatures. smile

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
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RE: Where to Get a PhD

Oh David,

University of Wisconsin at Madison.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
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RE: Where to Get a PhD

David,

If I were you I would head somewhere foreign, there are a lots of distant countries with English programs that are very good. The experience would be unbelievable and the research/thesis can be as good as you make it. I have a friend that is doing his MD in an English speaking school in Hungary and another that is a TA for Marine Biology (in English) in Qatar. The education and prestige of foreign schools may not be as good as MIT and Oxford, but from what I can tell you are not after the best schools but rather resources, subject matter and more than anything interest (both in where you are and what you are doing).

Good luck with your decision.

RE: Where to Get a PhD

(OP)
Thanks GSTeng, I hadn't thought about an English-language program in an other-than-English-speaking country.  I've known people who had good luck at the American University in Cairo, it might be a good idea.  I'll look into that.

David

RE: Where to Get a PhD

Oxford isn't a particulary prestigeous Engineering school as I recal, I think Cambridge does a bit better.  Probably the leading UK school is Imperial.

Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_universities especially the last paragraph of "Reputations"

"Southampton has a particularly strong showing in engineering where it is the only university in the country to hold the top (5*) RAE rating in all departments within its engineering faculty."

See, Southampton is as good as I saidwinky smile

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: Where to Get a PhD

(OP)
I'm an Arkansas boy, and from this perspective, just the name "Oxford" has a mystique.  I hope I would have checked it out before falling for the myth.

I reviewed some really good fluid mechanics work done at school in Surrey a few years ago, but I didn't have a clue where Surrey was (or even how to spell it), and I'm not sure what the name of the school was.

I've got a lot of research to do in the next few years.

David

RE: Where to Get a PhD

20 years ago Oxford didn't have an /engineering/ degree. They called it Engineering Science, I've never known anyone who did that course.

David why not one of the London Universities? (well, apart from the expense and living in London)


Of the Australian unis in attractive warm places with a decent engineering rep, UWA, UNSW, UoQ and QUT spring to mind. Adelaide  has a nice climate and soem decent engineering but it is a bit of a one horse town.

If you are prepared to live in the the sub-arctic then Melbourne's various universities are also decent engineering universities, but you get to live in Melbourne. ANU in Canberra is a university with a decent technical rep set in Woop woop.

For lifestyle in a colder climate again Hobart is terrific place to live, and has a university about which I know nothing.

Then there's New Zealand...
  




Cheers

Greg Locock

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RE: Where to Get a PhD

Some time back, I was looking around, and noticed on one school's requirements, that any graduate work that was older than so many years could no longer be counted towards a degree (IE, a master's degree hours could no longer be counted towards a PhD after so many years).  If you have any graduate work, see if that affects you.

And otherwise, I would recommend that most glorious institution of higher learning, Texas Tech University.

RE: Where to Get a PhD

(OP)
Greg,
Austrailia is one of the places that I'm most interested in.  I was in Melborne in the '70s and froze in December, but I really liked it.

JStephen,
I actually visited Texas Tech with my younger son when he was trying to pick a school after High School.  I'll pass on Lubbock for oh, so many reasons.  I hadn't heard of previous experience expiring, I'll have to look into that (it will be about 12 years from finishing the Masters to starting the PhD).

David

RE: Where to Get a PhD

David - Jstephen is correct.  For a PhD or Doctorate, you begin counting at the MS level.  Most programs are 60-70 hours and about half of that made up at the MS level.

Regards,
Qshake
pipe
Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

RE: Where to Get a PhD

I do know several people who took the Engineering Science course at Oxford, but I have to agree that Cambridge has the better reputation, regardless of whether it is worthy of it.  Both places are rich in culture and history - even us Brits find them "quaint" and magical.

For engineering at the research level, Imperial College is very hard to beat (in the UK at least).  The main problem is accomodation.  Unless you are VERY wealthy or are prepared to live in halls (nurse-maiding a load of 1st year students) then you'll end up living a long way from anywhere nice, commuting in by tube.  Living in London is an interesting experience though.

RE: Where to Get a PhD

(OP)
Thanks StompingGuy, no school is worth either a really long commute or nurse-maiding freshmen and I'll never be rich enough for the "stately homes of England".

David

RE: Where to Get a PhD

"I can satisfy the entry requirements of any school with 5 years to work on it"

How are you going to do that?  Do you already have the undergraduate coursework & GPA that many schools (including MIT, which you mentioned) will require?  Or do you plan to take and ace undergraduate classes to establish a track record?  

If you're scared of the GRE, then exam-based coursework may not be the way to go.  The GRE is not hard.

Hg

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RE: Where to Get a PhD

zdas04, for London housing prices think comparable to Santa Barbara, only without the climate!

You know, the more I think about it I'd recomend at least taking a look at southampton.

I had a friend who went on to do a degree in aerodynamics.

I think at the time I left the aerodynamics/thermodynamics was probably the strongest part of the aero department.  Not to mention world leading ISVR if that's of interest.

http://www.soton.ac.uk/ses/research/afm/index.shtml

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: Where to Get a PhD

Hawaii...I wasn't very interested either till I went to visit a relative.  I liked it a lot more than I thought I would.  Take your wife on a vacation.

Hg

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RE: Where to Get a PhD

(OP)
HgTX,
I can't say that I'm afraid of the GRE, it doesn't look nearly as hard as the PE exam and I've had pretty good success taking tests all my life.  My undergraduate GPA was one "B" shy of 4.0, and my grades in graduate school were about the same.  I figure the most likley stumbling block would be random pre-requisites that I might have missed along the way.  With adequate time, pre-requisites can always be satisfied by someone with the motivation to try.

KENAT,
I can probably handle Santa Barbara prices, I was thinking you were talking about Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous pricing.  I'm more interested in flow throgh a pipe than flow over a control surface.  I took an Aero compressible flow class in Grad School and it was interesting, but I'm not sure it is for me.  I looked at the web page and it looked interesting, thanks.

David

RE: Where to Get a PhD

zdas, I took advanced aero at Southampton as part of my Bachelors.  It wasn't just about wings, I seem to recall pipes and wedges in ground effect.

Southampton does/did a lot of work on formula one aerodynamics.  

Look not just at the aero department but also at ISVR which was originally a spin off of the aero department.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: Where to Get a PhD

David,

Before you can start an engineering PhD, you need to pass your comprehensive. It is an "open meeting" whereby your faculty, or anyone else for that matter, may ask you any and all questions related to your PhD field. If you don't pass, you don't start.

As to credits of previous course work and such, I don't think it should be a problem. You can always write the challenge.

The comprehensive is just that. If your field is CFD, you may have faculty from mech eng, chem eng, math, geo and etc at your comprehensive asking questions. There is a moderator that runs the comprehensive, and if the numbers get large, I would think that they would have to submit their questions (to get rid of duplicates) ahead of time, and have a schedule. The comprehensive usually lasts a day - although I have heard "war stories" of it going on much much longer.

Still, lots of people pass, so how hard could it possible be?

On the going back to school side. One of my undergrad professors got his PhD after a 30+ year career in the real world. It is probably more common than one would think.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
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RE: Where to Get a PhD

Requirement for a "comprehensive" will vary from field to field and school to school.  Typically if you're in a program that doesn't have a master's degree as a prereq, then nothing resembling a comp exam will happen till you've completed a couple of years of study (at which point you'd probably be eligible for a master's degree).  It's not something you'd be expected to do coming straight out of a bachelor's degree program.  At least not in the States, in my experience.

Hg

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RE: Where to Get a PhD

The comprehensive is part of the PhD program's requirements. It determines a candidates suitability to enter a PhD program.

A student does not need a Master's degree to enter a PhD program. Many start in a Masters, and jump to the PhD without a Master's degree. This usually saves one or two years.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
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RE: Where to Get a PhD

My departmental entrance exam was both written and oral.  Written was easy but the oral.....whew!  I've got war stories.

Regards,
Qshake
pipe
Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

RE: Where to Get a PhD

(OP)
I'm an ex-Nuc with all the inherent arrogance that that entails.  I'm not worried about oral or written exams, those things can always be mastered with preparation if you have time and I have plenty.  What I'm concerned about is what location/school I am going to pick, not whether they will accept me or not (I'll cross that bridge when I get there).

David

RE: Where to Get a PhD

David,

Ashereng mentioned UW Madison.  I'm not in your field so I won't comment on the program, but will say Madison is a great place to live.  Most of the benefits of a larger city without many of the downsides.  Plenty of culture, good food, four beautiful seasons, etc.

 

RE: Where to Get a PhD

(OP)
Thanks Bruno, I've been looking at their web page and while Wisconson wasn't on my short list of great places to start with, the school really looks like it is worth looking into, they say all the right things on their web page.

David

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
www.muleshoe-eng.com
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The harder I work, the luckier I seem

RE: Where to Get a PhD

David,

I would be severely disappointed if the school's web site said all the wrong things!

Have you checked out their current and past faculties? They boast an impressive list of who's who of the CFD and Thermo world.

Let me/us know if you do decide to go!

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
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RE: Where to Get a PhD

(OP)
Ashereng,
That would be a good point if there weren't so many of them that didn't say the right things.  I've been to upwards of 100 grad school web pages and at least half have turned me right off (things like, PhD students are required to live in grad-school dorms the first year on one campus; or theses work is required, but doesn't count towards their 72 hour requirement, etc).  There are a bunch of Universities out there that haven't entered the information age even to the point of having a useful web page.  The range of information and information quality is pretty amazing.

I'll get to a short list of a half dozen schools sometime in the next couple of years, then I'll do the kind of research (probably including campus visits) that you're talking about.  There are far too many possibilities to go very deep at this point.

David

RE: Where to Get a PhD

I'd agree with Bruno and highly recommend life in Madison.  It's a very cool city, small enough that you can get around (once you come to grips with the fact that the streets in the downtown area don't run N/S and E/W) but with lots of culture and plenty to do.  I didn't attend UW, but my wife worked at the UW Hospital for a short period.  We spent several Friday evenings sitting on the patio at the student union sipping beers and gazing at the lake.  The union is THE place to be in the summer - I knew people who had kept their UW IDs for years just to be able to go have a drink on the patio.

There is of course all the buzz surrounding Big 10 athletics and if you're a boater you've got a lot of choices within about an hour's drive, including the two lakes on either side of the Capitol.

Oh yeah, I've heard it's a good school as well.....

RE: Where to Get a PhD

Quote:

(once you come to grips with the fact that the streets in the downtown area don't run N/S and E/W)

Phew!  That was one of the things I just couldn't cope with in America.

RE: Where to Get a PhD

May I recommend Melbourne as a great place to live, also a decent university I'm led to believe.
Nottingham University in the UK has a very good reputation in Engineering, and the university itself is very nice (even if not all of Nottingham itself is). I believe there is also a branch of it in Malaysia, which could be an option.
Or my hometown of Cardiff has a good reputation in Engineering, and I can heartily recommend living there, although I doubt it could match the appeal of the likes of Hawaii!
Having said all that, if I was faced with the same problem I'd probably plump for Perth (in Western Australia, not Scotland) or Christchurch (New Zealand) as they are both places I'd love to live in.

RE: Where to Get a PhD

(OP)
I'm such a rube that I never heard of Cardiff before Dr. Who found a rift in the space time continuum there and Torchwood was set there.  Neither of those references show it in a good light.  I'll look into your suggestions.  I was in Melbourne in the '70s and really liked it (I especially liked the kindness that the people showed to a bunch of drunken sailors).

David

RE: Where to Get a PhD

Virginia Tech has a great engineering program. And it's located in one of the most beautiful regions of the eastern seaboard. One of my former students is currently attending graduate school there, and the Dean of the College of Engineering, Dick Benson, was a member of my thesis committee when I defended my dissertation back in the early 1990s.

One of the most important considerations in selecting a graduate program is finding a professor that you want to work with who is also willing and interested in helping you achieve your research goals. Classes are a necessary and important part of any graduate education, but the relationship that you form with your thesis advisor is critical to your success. Choose wisely, and you will love the experience of graduate school. Make the wrong choice, and it can be hell. Funny how it's like marriage in this respect.

Maui    

RE: Where to Get a PhD

Well said, Maui.  

Finding a professor that you want to work with and who is willing to help you acheive your research goals is the key to graduate school.  When considering graduate schools

1. Talk to the department's graduate studies coordinator.  This may be different from the department chair.  This guy knows which prof is doing what research and is very neutral in terms of department politics.

2. Arrange meetings with faculty who share similar research interests.  These guys have had lots of experience in research and will help you advance in your research if your topic is interesting to them.  They can put into practice concepts from academia that aren't even considered in "real world" engineering.  

3. If given the choice, hand-pick your advisory committee.  Be aware of rivalries within the department.  It looks better if there are a few committee members from other departments.  Most younger graduate students, particularly MS students, pick an advisor and the advisor's buddies are on the committee.  This is a trick to get you through the program faster, but if you are going to do it the right way, pick people who are more familiar with your research.  If you're doing fluids and thermo, don't have a solid mechanics, beam-bending, mohr's circle type guy on the committee.       


Hope this helps you, and best wishes pursuing the PhD.

IAA
WVU '05

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