Material not being supplied with certs - general market trend?
Material not being supplied with certs - general market trend?
(OP)
I thought I would post here because I respect the opinion of most people that follow this forum on manufacturing and documentation procedures. This issue is not necessarily a GDT or drafting issue directly.
We have been hearing from our purchasing department that our material suppliers are either refusing to give certs for cold worked material, or they are quoting price adders for certs. The price adders can be pretty expensive. Are we being duped, or from your perspective is there a more general trend in the market to either charge (almost exorbitant prices) for certs on cold worked material or not offer them at all? Our people tell us the material vendors tell them they can supply certs for hot rolled/formed material but not for cold worked material. Has anyone else been running into this? Recently we have received some material without a cert, and had it tested and found it to be roughly half the yield strength that it should have been. We have also seen an increase in material received with a cert that is basically fraudulent. Can anyone comment on your experiences? Have you seen a general trend in this regard?
We have been hearing from our purchasing department that our material suppliers are either refusing to give certs for cold worked material, or they are quoting price adders for certs. The price adders can be pretty expensive. Are we being duped, or from your perspective is there a more general trend in the market to either charge (almost exorbitant prices) for certs on cold worked material or not offer them at all? Our people tell us the material vendors tell them they can supply certs for hot rolled/formed material but not for cold worked material. Has anyone else been running into this? Recently we have received some material without a cert, and had it tested and found it to be roughly half the yield strength that it should have been. We have also seen an increase in material received with a cert that is basically fraudulent. Can anyone comment on your experiences? Have you seen a general trend in this regard?





RE: Material not being supplied with certs - general market trend?
Chris
SolidWorks 07 4.0/PDMWorks 07
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 04-21-07)
RE: Material not being supplied with certs - general market trend?
Bradley
SolidWorks Premim 2007 x64 SP4.0
PDM Works, Dell XPS Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU
3.00 GHz, 5 GB RAM, Virtual memory 12577 MB, nVidia 3400
RE: Material not being supplied with certs - general market trend?
As for the cold worked material not being able to cert I can't really help you. However, if you find out why this is, please post and let us know. I'd bet money on the type of cert your documentation is asking for. Often conflicts between what is called out on the drawing and the current cert standard do not get processed through the purchasing dept. I find it best to cut out the middle man and call the vendor directly on this kind of problem.
Wes C.
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RE: Material not being supplied with certs - general market trend?
Pete
RE: Material not being supplied with certs - general market trend?
Pete
RE: Material not being supplied with certs - general market trend?
Wes C.
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RE: Material not being supplied with certs - general market trend?
Would you mind enquiring as to the cost increase your folks are seeing. Can they point at any supplier policies for certs?
Pete
RE: Material not being supplied with certs - general market trend?
My general experience (not to be applied to any specific scenario) is that the supplier of the material will be able provide material certs if they state their material meets some standard. They are able to do this at extra charge because they need to perform the test or to qualify their process (or both) in order to state their material is of that standard. (Even more so if NIST in applied) There's no reason to make an individual customer pay for this since it is amortized across all customers as a cost of doing business.
If no standard is applied, then there's no reason to even have a cert at all unless the customer is specifically asking for a particular material to their own specifications that the vendor has agreed to make. In this case, it would be acceptable to charge the customer for the work that goes into the certification process because the material is custom to the customer.
Any other thoughts about this?
Matt
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
sw.fcsuper.com
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
RE: Material not being supplied with certs - general market trend?
RE: Material not being supplied with certs - general market trend?
Matt
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
sw.fcsuper.com
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
RE: Material not being supplied with certs - general market trend?
RE: Material not being supplied with certs - general market trend?
I will ask on monday. Today is a day off for the office.
Wes C.
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