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Pipe Welding
5

Pipe Welding

Pipe Welding

(OP)
Can two welders qualified to deposit 14mm max. weld one pipe joint with a 25mm wall?

RE: Pipe Welding

No.  The Certification is for the base material thickness and not the aggregate weld thickness.  (nice try, though!)

RE: Pipe Welding

For ASME Section IX welding, yes they can. Multiple welders can fill a weld joint as long as  each individual welder does not exceed their weld deposit thickness qualification. Base metal thickness is not an issue for welder performance qualification using the SMAW process (see Section IX, QW-353).

RE: Pipe Welding

Have you qualified the process?  You have to qualify both the welders and the resulting weld.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Still trying to help you stop corrosion.
formerly Trent Tube, now Plymouth Tube
eblessman@plymouth.com
or edstainless@earthlink.net

RE: Pipe Welding

(OP)
On welder performance qualification cards , on the line marked Materials (P.N0.). If no Group No. is given for P1,
what group is qualified.

If on Materials line P1 to P8 is noted does that mean any steel listed as a P1 to any steel listed as P8 can be welded up to deposited thickness qualifications?

I have Welder Performance Quallification Card that has
P1-P11 is that P1 to P11?

There does not seem to be a consistant way to fill these cards in.

Thanks.
QCMike

RE: Pipe Welding

QCMike,
Under ASME IX, welders who are qualified on P No. 1 materials are qualified to weld all Group Nos in P-1. He may also weld all P No 1 through P No 11 materials with the F No., welding filler metal qualified; e.g., if the welder qualified on any P No. from 1 thru 11 with the GTAW process and an F-6 filler metal, he is qualified to weld on any P No. 1 thru 11, including all Group Nos therein. REF.QW-423.1.  

RE: Pipe Welding

(OP)
Should stainless electrodes be kept in a bake oven?

RE: Pipe Welding

(OP)
I have a welding procedure and the PQR was done on Grade 304L P8 material.

On form QW-482, under Base Metals QW-403 P8 to P8 is listed.

Under Spec. type & grade ,Chem. analysis & mec. Prop. NA is on every line.

Does this mean any P8 to P8 material can be welded with this WPS.

The Welding Procedurre Data Sheet for this WPS under Material Designations: lists 304(L) P8
,Electrode Classification ER308(L)/E308(L)-17.

Can 316(L) be welded using this WPS eventhough the data sheet lists one material and one consumable?

RE: Pipe Welding

As per QW-424.1, any metal with the same P-number as the PQR coupon can be welded with that weld procedure.  For impact tested coupons, the Group numbers need to match as well.

For a 304L PQR coupon, any P-number 8 material can be used in the WPS.

I have a question regarding your "Welding Procedure Data Sheet".  Is this a WPDS as per CSA W47.1, or is this an internal company welding instruction sheet?  If it is a CSA WPDS, then you have to read W47.1 for limitations on your welding variables.

My previous company had internal Welding Data Sheets that were written by the metallurgist/welding engineer.  These were specific sets of instructions for a specific job.  If this is the type of document you have, then should follow the data sheet or discuss with the person who issued the data sheet.

Otherwise, I do not know what a Welding Procedure Data Sheets is since it is not in ASME IX.

RE: Pipe Welding

(OP)
JasonLouie,

The WPDS form does not list an origin. It does have a line that says Ref.ASME Sec.IX LIL-150 Rev. 0, which is the WPS I mentioned in the post that  you answered.Under applicable Codes it list ASME B31.3.

RE: Pipe Welding

Just a shot in the dark - is this a Ledcor procedure?

Yes, this procedure can be used to weld 316 materials.

RE: Pipe Welding

(OP)
JasonLouie,
Yes, it is a Ledcor procedure. How did you know that?

RE: Pipe Welding

QCMike,
I have seen this procedure before.  I do not have a Welding Procedure Data Sheet with it, but as I said before, 316 can be welded with this procedure.

RE: Pipe Welding

(OP)
Should Stainless electrodes be kept in a bake oven, or just kept warm and dry?

RE: Pipe Welding

(OP)
I have another question about the WPS for stainless.

If the parameters on the wps can be used for any P8 material, wouldn't a new welding procedure data sheet have to be made listing 316L consumables and 316L base material?

Would any further testing be required since the consumable and base metal have been changed from the original PQR or do you just use the same wpds and change consumable and material?

 

RE: Pipe Welding

ASME has defined P-numbers and F-numbers to minimize the number of weld procedures which need to be tested.  Please read QW-424 and QW-430 for more details.

RE: Pipe Welding

(OP)
Should Stainless electrodes be kept in a bake oven, or just kept warm and dry?

RE: Pipe Welding

(OP)
I need to wrilte a PWHT procedure for P1 material both sour and non-sour service. The material for the moment is A 106 B.
Is there a formula I can use to determine max. rate per
hour the temp can be raised, duration of soak and rate of cooling per hour?

Is there a rate and temp. that must not be exceeded when heating and cooling?

Once max rate of heating is determined, is there a formula to calculate at what temp. you start to raise to soak temp?

RE: Pipe Welding

SMAW elelctrodes for austenitic stainless steel should be stored at 250 degrees F based on AWS D1.6 Structural Welding Code/Stainless Steel.

ASME will not list the requirements for electrode stroage.

Best regards - Al

Best regards - Al

RE: Pipe Welding

QC Mike,

Assuming that you are dealing with piping fabrication, you may wish to consult ASME B31.3, Clause 331.  Reference to AWS D10.10 wouldn't go amiss either.

Steve Jones
Materials & Corrosion Engineer
http://www.pdo.co.om/pdo/

RE: Pipe Welding

(OP)
If a welding symbol calls for a single bevel on both sides of a 20 mm plate and the preperation calls for 10mm on both arrow side and opposite side, is it calling up a full pen weld? There is no mention GTSM in tail.

RE: Pipe Welding

It sounds like a full pen weld to me.  If the root was made with GTAW or GMAW, backgouging may not be required.

RE: Pipe Welding

This is a typical discussion when trying to decypher a WPS written to meet ASME Section IX and applying it to a construction code such as B31.3 or Section VIII.

You can write a WPS that meets Section IX, but not the applicable construction code. You can write a WPS that meets both the construction code and Section IX that still doesn't meet the practical needs of the welder.

Case in point: The procedure is qualified using an austenitic stainless 304 alloy using a 308 filler metal. Now the user wants to weld a 316 alloy, does he use a 308 filler metal because it was used when qualifying the WPS or does he use a 316 alloy filler metal?

ASME isn't going to answer the question. You will have to search literature from other sources because ASME doesn't tell you "how to do anything". I'm not saying that is a bad thing or a good thing, it is simply the ASME approach to welding as well as other "how to questions".

Many of the answers to welding related issues can be found in literature available from AWS. Many of the individuals that sit on the AWS committees also sit on ASME committees.

Best regards - Al

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