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Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?
4

Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

(OP)
Suppose you had a child that was in the process of choosing which career path to pursue. Knowing what you know now about the engineering profession, would you encourage them to pursue that field of study, assuming that they had the necessary skills to succeed as an engineer?

I think most of us would agree that there are plenty of other careers out there that earn better pay, garner higher status, and get better benefits than engineers. And many of these degrees are much easier to obtain than an engineering degree.

What would you advise your children?

Thanks.


-Christine

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

I would advise my child to pursue what they feel they enjoy the most.  I know that is a lukewarm answer at best, but I really feel there is a great deal of satisfaction that comes from enjoying your chosen profession that extra money can't compensate for.  
While it is true that doctors, lawyers, and many other professions make more money than engineers, I would not want to do anything other than what I do right now.  I spent 10 years in manufacturing earning much more than I do now as an engineer (and I am not compensated poorly), but absolutely hated my job.  
I really feel like chasing the almight dollar at the expense of choosing a profession that you enjoy will do nothing to enhance your life and can be very detrimental.  
That's just my take.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

"Knowing what you know now about the engineering profession, would you encourage them to pursue that field of study, assuming that they had the necessary skills to succeed as an engineer?"

Undergraduate, yes.

From there, you can do anything - other than engineering. Law or finance...

Or, if the kid has talent in music or sports: pursue rock stardom or pro sports.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

I never advised what my kids should be. I have always told them to pick something you will like and will be good at. My son is currently enrolled in engineering school. His choice. Then he is going on to get his PHD in Physics.

Chris
SolidWorks 07 4.0/PDMWorks 07
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 04-21-07)

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

I became an engineer because I was interested in engineering.  Neither of my kids are, and I think it would be a mistake for either of them to go into engineering for that reason.

The second semester I was in college, I got a new roommate in the dorm.  His dad was a petroleum engineer, making big money with his own oil company, and felt the son should follow in his footsteps.  Only the son had no interest whatever in engineering.  He lasted one semester.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

[quote]I think most of us would agree that there are plenty of other careers out there that earn better pay, garner higher status, and get better benefits than engineers./quote]

Yes, but would they be happy with their career choice? Do they like what they do, do they enjoy working 8-10 hours a day? I do not agree there are "plenty" of other careers earning better pay. Most engineers in their field with over 20 years of expierence are doing well, overall. Education or degrees so not guarantee wealth in this country, it is a combination of education and what you have inside of you (ambition or drive).

Quote:

And many of these degrees are much easier to obtain than an engineering degree.

Completely disagree with this statement. You look at the time spent for schooling to obtain a PhD, MD, DDS, JD (more than 4 years +). In fact, the NCEES organization that regulates the licensing of professional engineers in the US is trying to increase the educational requirements for obtaining a license because of these "other" professional degree programs that are licensed.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

metengr - I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the quote and offer this....

what other fields of study (except those with loose connections to various engineering fields such as physics and chemistry) require students to pour over chapter after chapter of complex mathematical or scientific theory then with a good understanding of that theory play games with the input or output, which is essentially what engineers do.  Engineers apply obscure theory to the practical gain of humans everywhere.

To highlight this I will take a case that I'm aware of and concede that this is probably an extreme.  There was once a statement made by child of president when entering the university.  She said that she would major in history and pursue Medical school afterward.  Please tell me how this can be?  

Regards,
Qshake
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RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

I love being an engineer, so yes if one of my kids was interested in engineering I would certainly encourage it. My Dad was an engineer, and so was my Grandfather. So far of my five kids, four have not been interested in engineering, my youngest son is a possibility, but he is only 12 and has not given career plans much thought yet.

I firmly believe that doing what you love is fundamental to success, and that money is not the best measure of success. Even so I am quite pleased with my financial situation as well.


"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?" Oddball, "Kelly's Heros" 1970

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RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

My son just recently graduated with an engineering bachelor's degree from Harvey Mudd College, consistently ranked number one or two of the top engineering programs in the US for colleges offering only undergrad degrees.  I actively encouraged him to get an engineering degree, and actively discouraged him from an engineering career.  I believe that an engineering education is very valuable, and better preparation than a business degree or law degree for someone interested in pursuing a business career.  I can't cite the source, but I read somewhere that 25% of the CEO's in the US have an undergrad engineering degree (think Jack Welsh at GE).  I think that as companies become more dependent on technology, an understanding of that technology will become more important for business leadership.  

However, I also think that the outlook for a career in engineering in the US is in decline.  With the increasing ability for engineering to be accomplished offshore, and the H1-B situation, I think that salaries will fail to keep up.  The general public doesn't understand nor value what we do, and the liability situation is out of control.  Most engineering companies do a very poor job of developing their engineers for leadership.

My son's first job is with a management consulting firm, and plans to get an MBA within the next 8-10 years.  As far as I am concerned, that the right thing for him to do.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?


Quote:

metengr - I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the quote and offer this....

Qshake;

That is fine to disagree. I am glad I am an Engineer, I find it rewarding and challenging professionally, and am compensated well for my talents.

But your statement did not convince me of how hard/easy engineering is relative to other professions. Comparing the Engineering profession to other professions is like apples to grapefruit.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

JRESE - I have a son probably going into engineering in a couple of years.  Could you post some pro's/con's of Harvey Mudd from your and your son's points of view?  Would be most appreciated; thanks in advance.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

engineering is a dead end

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

jgoebel, I believe you spelt real deal incorrectly.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

Engineering sure beats flipping hamburgers!
You have to love the work. If you are into engineering for the $$, you will not be happy. An engineering degree can also help you in other fields. You can't say that about other degrees for the engineering field.

Chris
SolidWorks 07 4.0/PDMWorks 07
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 04-21-07)

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

In response to SWComposites re: Harvey Mudd College

HMC is a small (750 students) private liberal arts college in Claremont, CA, part of the Claremont College Consortium.  It is contiguous with Scripps College (women), Pomona College, Claremont McKenna College, Pitzer College, two grad schools.  HMC offers degrees in math, biology, chemistry, engineering, and physics.  It is consistently ranked in the top one or two of undergrad only ( i.e. no post-bacc. studies) engineering colleges in the US.  HIGHLY selective.  Website is www.hmc.edu

Pro:

1. An exceptional education.  Being a liberal arts college, the education includes humanities studies to a significant extent.  All classes are taught by a Phd, no teaching aides.  Average class size is 8 students.  It is not unusual to be invited to the prof’s house for dinner, or have the prof show up at a dorm party or sporting event.  HMC has an exceptional reputation with hard science grad schools.

2.  The 5C (five Claremont Colleges) community.  The colleges combine resources, meaning that each of the schools has libraries, facilities such as science labs, sports teams and facilities, etc. that a solo liberal arts school can’t provide.  It’s very easy and common for HMC students to enroll and attend classes at the other schools.

3.  Geographic location.  10 miles or so from Ontario, CA airport.  Access to all that LA offers.

4.  On-campus housing is nearly 100% for all 4 years.  (By the way, being a private school, if they graduate, they do it in 4 years, none of this taking 5 or more years because you can’t get the classes you need.  At the cost for tuition (see con’s), parents wouldn’t tolerate that stuff.) Students can do very well without a car on campus.

5.  Misc.  a) A very respected clinic program, like a senior project, but starts midway through junior year.  This program includes actual work on projects sponsored by gov. agencies and tech corporations.      b) High participation in intramural sports.     c) We are very impressed with my son’s fellow students.  No slackers/dummies here.     d)  An honor code which gives students access to college facilities 24/7, no cheating, etc.     e) A tradition of doing high-tech pranks on faculty and other dorms, even going so far as to steal Cal Tech’s cannon from their campus.

6.  Policy on parties and alcohol.  Basically, it’s a hands-off attitude unless thing get even a little bit out of control.  We all know kids will drink at college.  HMC let’s them have alcohol parties on campus.  Over the 4 years my son was at school, I did not hear of a single DUI or other off-campus alcohol related problem.  

Con:

1.  Cost.  Freshman year total cost (tuition, housing, board, book) was $41k, senior year $45k.

2.  Grades.  HMC has a “no grade inflation” policy, which is unusual for colleges these days.  Most students will see a 1.5 GPA drop from their high school GPA.  This is not a problem when applying for engineering/science grad school, because the policy is known by them, but applying for jobs and non-science/engineering grad school is tough.  Reportedly, only four students have graduated with a 4.0 in the fifty years the college has been in existence.  Compare to Harvard, which graduates huge numbers of students with a 4.0 every year.

3.  Political correctness.  Race/class/gender/identity politics.  This is an issue at nearly every college.

4.  Food. It sucks.  Trust me, I know.

5.  Rigor.  Expect to do in one semester the work you would do at a state college in one year.  These kids do a lot of 16-20 hour days.

All said, a good choice for my son.  Sorry for the long off-topic response.  Maybe this should have been a new topic  .

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

jgoebel wrote "engineering is a dead end"

For you I would guess it is. Why are you wasting your time with it?


For me it has been far far from a dead end.



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RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

Backing right up to the OP:

I would try to inform my child what an "engineer" spends his/her day/week/month/year doing.  In most plces, pay is better than flipping burgers but worse than counting burgers flipped.

If my child liked finding out how things worked, breaking them and then fixing them, what's better?

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

metengr - I too love my profession.  I meant point out that Business degrees, Liberal Arts (Literature, History etc), Fine Arts, Physical Therapy degrees etc, don't have the challenge as engineering does with Calculus, Physics, Chemistry, Differential Equations etc.  So yes, I do consider some degrees much easier to earn.

Regards,
Qshake
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RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

I've been in the profession for 23yrs after getting a BSME from a major university.  While the general public may hold engineers in high regard you certainly can't tell from the workplace.

It started out that there were mechanical draftsmen and mechanical designers to handle the drawings and detailed layouts for the MEs.  Then many companies (except for the bigger ones) did away with these guys.  Now the mechanical engineers do the engineering AND the layouts AND the drawings (but it hasn't escaped my notice that EEs still have designers to help them).  I feel that so much has been asked of me that my skills and creativity have become diluted.  I feel that, as a design engineer, I've reached the point where I'm not really good at ANYTHING!

Getting back to the subject, if asked for my recommendation I would NOT recommend engineering as a profession unless he/she can enter a narrow yet promising specialty where he/she can become an expert (e.g. nanotechnology).  Given the education, knowledge, and brainpower required in this profession the pay and recognition are inadequate.  Also since the US govt really has no technology plan worthy of discussion and because business leaders see no profit in cooperating with their peers at other companies, where is high technology headed besides overseas?






Tunalover

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

Engineering is a way of thinking and a way of looking at the world. If the child's brain seems wired up the right way to be an engineer, I would positively encourage them to find out if it interests them. The final decision is of course up to them.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

I plan to provide encouragement for whatever my son decides to do.  Like the other posters have indicated, I believe an engineering based education would be an excellent foundation to many professions.  I will not try to force my son onto any particular path or set some personal expectation for him to try and attain.  He will need to choose his own path.  I know several people who are miserable in their careers and feel trapped as they are trying to please and fulfill the expectations of their parents.

Regards,

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

Many years ago I advised my daughter to become a school teacher (summers off, etc.) She started U/ILL in the school of science. She found that the pre-eng students were no smarter than her, so she switched to Chem E (in the chem dept of the school of science at U/I.)

She never made less than me since grad, and now she is into six figures and not regretting it. My son went to eng school and switched to business; regrets not completing eng.

The key is to work for upstanding corporations instead of wasting time in smaller companies where sometimes non-tech individuals supervise engineers. My last job was like that, and it was a disaster. Pick your companies carefully.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?


 I would not encourage or discourage my children from entering the field of engineering. I would try to do my best in explaining what one might expect from entering into the field.

I was under the misconception that getting an engineering degree meant you were "one of the smart ones" and that would pay off monetarily. That belief was bolstered by the reports of annual starting salaries for different professions. The jokes about students transferring out of the engineering college when they couldn't handle the course load or difficulty reinforced this. What I have observed in my 18 years after graduating is
* An engineer can make a respectable living and support a family.
* An engineers starting salary will typically be higher than other majors
* Many folks that majored in other schools of study have the ability to catch and surpass engineers in terms of pay
* There is a wide range of pay for engineers doing the same job. It doesn't matter how "hard" you work it matters what you are willing to be paid

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

There are some misconceptions "ease" of getting into about "other" careers.  Becoming a doctor requires 4 years of medical school, post-college, plus a minimum of 2 yrs of residency for the lowest-paying job, a general practioner, who is neither board-eligible, nor board-certified.  At that, the best paying jobs are not anywhere near a coast; there's nearly a $70K delta between Kansas City and Los Angeles.  

A surgeon requires 7 yrs of residency, often followed by 1-2 yrs of fellowship, followed by barely 20 years of useful life before one's hand shake to much to do one's job.  

This is not counting the 36-hr shifts during residency, where life-or-death decisions are made with 0 hours of sleep.

TTFN

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RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

Well I'm still young with no wife or kids, so my answer might change when I actualy have kids, but I would encourage it.  The reason being is it opens up so many doors.  If I want to try something new in a year I can, but mostly what I like about it is I finished school and now I can pick what types of jobs I want to do. If I don't like it here, that doesn't necessarily mean I'll give up on engineering I may just try a different type of engineering job.

I have so many friends who took other types of degrees/schooling paths and they are sitting around terrified they've wasted the last six years of their lives.  They either don't like doing what they got into or they do not get paid enough to live on their own.

Like I said though, I do not have kids and this may skew my answer.  And I understand that there are a lot of incredibly cool jobs not in engineering but to me it seems almost like luck of the draw.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

Qshake is absolutely correct...there are no bachelors degrees harder than engineering.  I was at the point of tutoring seniors in accounting when I never read their book before helping them...also, if I would have earned my degree in business or finance, I could have partied more in college and been 4.0 (most likely).   Engineering is an outstanding degree to have for furthering your education in a different field.  The skill level would be downhill from there.  If you want to make a lot of money, get your MBA and engineer something you want, to help benefit mankind.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

I have a friend who has been a doctor for 3 years. You should hear his war stories about life at work. He has endured 10 times more unethical behavior by his employers & coworkers than I have endured in my 22 years in engineering. He got a BS degree in Biomedical Engineering before going on to med school. If he had stayed in engineering, he would now be making almost the same money that he is currently making as a Doctor. And after all that effort. He works so many hours that he has no life.

Those business types that make the big money at Wall Street are probably 1 out of 100. The other 99 fell on their faces and now work for peanuts.

I think that I'd rather have an engineer career than these other 2 careers.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

No bachelor's degrees harder than engineering?  Physics?  Mathematics?  I went to a unversity where the undgraduate architecture program was pretty rigourous; they worked like dogs for five years.

"Hard" is entirely in the eye of the beholder.  To me, getting a degree in literature would be really, really hard.  Getting a degree in engineering was easy.  I do this because this is what my brain is comfortable with.

Engineering can be a great field.  But we don't need to go patting ourselves on the back implying that everyone else is intellectually inferior (see the "Arrogant Engineers" thread elsewhere).

Hg

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RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

Okay fine, physics, masters in mathematics do get my attention...engineering isnt for everyone...just because someone can't make it in engineering doesnt mean they arent "smart" people.  Let an individual fallow his/her own path in life.  I would recommend engineering to my children only because, with an engineering degree, you can do anything, anywhere.  I couldnt be a Lit/ liberal arts major, I hate writing (and I write specs for 50% of my career, which sux).  

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

It seems interesting that when someone asks about the merits of changing jobs or moving to a new city that "greener grass" is often cited, yet no one here seems to contemplate that all the griping and whining about engineering might just be a "greener grass" syndrome.

Does anyone really think that it'll be a cakewalk to make $500K/yr?  It takes a surgeon 13 yrs AFTER a Bachelors degree to get to that point, and even then, how many of them actually get to enjoy their lives, wives, and children?

Ditto a different thread about investment bankers.  Nonwithstanding some shoddy and misleading statistics, does anyone think that everyone could earn $500K as an "average" investment banker?

The bottomline is that you need to balance happiness and money; they are neither equivalent nor interchangeable.  Having a loving family and spending time with same is priceless.  In another thread in the Pat's Pub, people are talking about the things they did with their families over the last weekend.  It's taken for granted that one gets that weekend off, yet, 24/7, you go to the emergency room during Labor Day weekend or any weekend, and there are doctors and nurses on call and on duty.

TTFN

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RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

If they have the skills and inclination then yeah, I'd probably encourage them.  However, I wouldn't try and mindwash them or blow smoke...

While there are elements of truth to many points above, a lot of it is green grass syndrome as IRstuff points out.

While I can't justify it and it doesn't really make sense I can't help thinking (feeling?) that at least certain engineering bachelors are harder than most other bachelors.  In fact I know for a fact that aerospace is the hardest, it must me because one of my profs said as much winky smile.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

A simple answer to your OP: No.

Engineering is a good choice - look at all the passionate opinions above.

Engineering, I don't think, is any harder or easier than any other career. Yes, math, physics etc are tough. But you know what, so is being a concert pianist, or a professinal dance company dancer, or singer (have you heard your colleagues at karaoke) or any other career. I my humble opinion, it is only hard if you are not good at it, or conversely, it is pretty easy if you are good at it.

However, I don't think that given everything else being equal, there are better return on investment than engineering.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
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RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

Initial answer - YES.

More importantly, I'd want them to understand the difference between science and engineering, probably career paths, etc, then choose.

I have a niece that is a scientist who just recently successfullt defended her PhD dissertation.

I have a daughter who graduated with an engineering degree 3 years ago.

My other daughter just graduated and is a teacher, just to show I don't apply too much pressure :)

Final answer remains - YES.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

HgTX-
Would getting a lit degree be hard or just boring?  I think there is a difference between something that is genuinely difficult for the masses and something that seems boring and tedious (and hence uninteresting).
A large number of people could not get through an engineering program, that is just the case.
I can't imagine too many people not getting through a lit degree.  You might want to pull your hair out from reading and "interpreting" all day, but I somehow think you would make your way through it.  Additionally, there is so much subjectivity involved in the grading of non-scientific classes that it is almost insulting to the people who do actually know what they are doing with it.  I got an A in several undergrad non-scientific classes in which I had no clue (I should have gotten a C).  But alas, since there is no true right or wrong answer, it is hard to tell someone they are wrong.
Now take a lit major and stick him in an engineering program and I think you will see someone truly think it is hard because it is hard, not because it is boring.
That's just my opinion

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

I would encourage them to become plumbers, electricians or carpenters. They start earning from the day they leave high school, get paid for every hour they work, can potentially earn more money than an engineer, and can leave their work at the end of the day not worrying about responsibility/liability.

Oh, and they dont have a student loan to pay off.

csd

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

I think StructuralEIT is better at getting my point across.  

I think that engineering is hard and wonderful and that there are talented indviduals out there that are challenged and rewarded to go through the program is great.  I think the stereotypical engineer is one who rises to the challenge and is obviously adept at many things including getting a literature degree if they wanted.  Or whatever their fancy is.

I agree with a lot of statements made but still beleive that for four year degrees engineering is going to require more dedicated, smart, and resourceful students.  

I can't say that about business students and I don't think I'm being arrogant either.  I feel I'm pretty humble and in most cases I always listen to others (non-engineers) and their ideas (on resolving problems) before stepping in and giving my recommendations.

Regards,
Qshake
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RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?


It would be interesting to hear from any German engineers out there....

Last time I was there visiting an electronic engineering company, engineers were all addressed as "Herr Doktor", were top of the social pile (well above lawyers and doctors), and very well paid.

I guess that's why they make good cars in profitable companies....

I suppose it's a cultural thing.


Cheers

Harry

(UK, where Joe Public thinks engineers fix cars and toolmakers make spanners)

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

Pud;
You better check again. I made two trips to Germany this year and a third is scheduled the end of this month. My counterparts complain about insurance benefits and there is no added social benefit or elite status that I was made aware of at our business dinners. In fact, unemployment of engineers is just like this country and I am starting to see more outsourcing by German companies to 3rd world countries to cut cost (sounds like the good old US capitalism).

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

I am not in US. I am European currently working in Asia.
My take:
-Engineering has allowed me and my friends that chose it a decent life. I cannot complaint;
-Engineering principles are basicaly the same everywhere. A pump is a pump and a motor is a motor. In US, China or Africa. This gives a huge geographical flexibility for the ones that want it;
-Engineering has given me the professional challenges that after 9 years in the profession still make me think that my choice at 18 was the correct one.
Me and my brother are the first engineers in the entire family, so this is not a family tradition.
Given this I would not hesitate to tell my daughter that if she feels inclined to, she should pursue engineering.
I do not agree with some of the "do what you like most" answers. At 18, we hardly know what we like most and we have to define our most of our life by then when choosing a degree. If parents don't clarify/tutor/help their kids in the decision, then they are dismissing their function as parents.
Degrees that I wouldn't foster my kids to pursue and would do my best for them to not choose it (based on my country's/personal experience):
-Law;
-Psychology;
-Sociology;
-Human Resources;
-Management;
-Teaching
At this stage in my country every kid wants to be soccer player, actor, singer or journalist. Nobody likes hard science anymore...

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

StructuralEIT--to me, getting a lit. degree would be hard.  Data entry is boring and tedious.  Coming up with stuff to write about that I just don't feel is hard.  There *is* a difference.  I could force myself through an accounting or geology program.  I would flunk out of a lit program.  FOR ME, the way MY brain is wired, thinking about literature is hard.  (And let's not even discuss the many engineers who can't so much as put together a grammatical sentence, and who would probably not be able to get through an elementary school teacher training program.)

I have another degree in a social science.  I can't say that one degree was "harder" to get than the other.  Either way, I was doing work along the lines that my brain liked to go.  In both cases, I sometimes hit areas where my brain didn't really want to go.  That's "hard".

I also have a master's degree in each field.  In the social science, I was lost, dazed, and confused, and really only got the master's because I dropped out of a PhD program.  In the engineering program, I wasn't the best student they had, but I managed to maintain a merit-based fellowship without serious trauma.  Does that mean that engineering is easier than the social science?

Hg

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RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

HgTX-
I can appreciate that YOU feel a lit degree would be hard.  No one was talking about an individual case, we were making more of a general statement.  That being the case, I have to reiterate that for the masses an engineering degree is much harder.
There is a reason that far fewer people get an engineering degree than a liberal arts degree and it isn't just because they find the subject matter so moving.
The majority of people just could not take it - having to give THE correct answer instead of just being able to defend AN answer.  Many people do not like the idea that there really is a correct answer.  I personally need that, but that is irrelevant.  
The point I am making is while there are exceptions to the rule, generally speaking (as considered by the masses) an engineering degree is harder than most.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

Quote:

The majority of people just could not take it - having to give THE correct answer instead of just being able to defend AN answer.  Many people do not like the idea that there really is a correct answer.

Uh?

I take the exact opposite view.  It is SO much easier if there is only one answer, you know how to derive it and you ultimately know whether you are right or wrong.  "Opinion" answers and exams based on expressing opinions are well avoided.  Give me a black & white exam any day.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

... likewise all those subjects marked via coursework were also avoided by me in favour of the exam-based subjects.  How do you score 100% in a coursework-based subject?

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

somptingguy-
You are correct.  It is so much easier when there is only one answer and you know if you are right or wrong.  The flaw with that statement is that you are making the assumption that someone knows how to do the problem.  That is the very essence of my point - that most people don't (and even with schooling can not succeed at it).
As HgTX pointed out - anything is easy if you know how to do it.  The point I am making is that a larger magnitude of people can not handle the coursework for the engineering degree.
I am done arguing this point because it is coming dangerously close to a previous thread in which I got angry.  I don't like to be angry.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

I don't know about you guys but in the engineering I do, there isn't a right answer, there's no black-and-white yes-or-no. There's a lot of different solutions to the clients problem and the art in what we do is to find the most appropriate answer according to the client's priorites at the time. If there was only one answer, the clients would do these jobs themselves and they wouldn't need my help.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

Yeah, but I was talking about passing courses and getting grades.  I've always regretted not taking some courses that would have done me better in life, solely because they weren't exam-based.  Likewise it really cheesed me off in my final year that I came top in the "operations management" exam.  That was supposed to be about running factories, something I knew I'd never do.

Coursework is probably more valuable than bookwork, but if you need a good final score to get a job, then so be it.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

I agree with StructuralEIT.  The method to get to the one answer is the tough part (math, physics, chem..etc) and there is no difference of interpritation, it's either right or wrong and no partial credit.  For other non-science / math base classes (english, art, law ...etc) you can figure out what the preofssor wants and if you don't like the grade, you have a chance to defend your point of view of the subject matter.  You can not do that in engineering.  It is either you did the calcs right or wrong.  It is easy to get it wrong, but it is harder to get that one needle in the hay stack.

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

A good friend of my wife had a son that just graduated from high school.  He wanted to go into mechanical engineering, but his parents talked him out of it.  They told him that mechanical engineers sit at a desk all day doing theoretical calculations and that would bore him to death.  Instead, he changed to physical education and plans to be a high school football coach.  I was saddened that I did not have a chance to explain to him that engineering is not just theoretical calculations.  I knew I wanted to be a mechanical engineer when I was 10 years old.  I have had a few bad days, but overall, I have enjoyed it. I find it challenging and rewarding.  I get paid more than most of my non-engineer friends.  I am able to live well and take care of my family.  If a child has an interest in engineering, I would encourage them to go into engineering as a career.

Johnny Pellin

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

To the OP, as a parent of a 10 & 3 year old pair of mechanically-inclined boys, I would encourage them to pursue engineering, even though I complain about the career a lot myself. The older one seems to be pretty good at math and pretty bad at reading, and he's already figured out how to fix his own bicycle & dirt bike.

I'm going to encourage him to get an engineering degree. If he had his way, he would be a tradesman, a pro dirt biker, or maybe a snow board instructor. I guess if you're looking at getting your very bookish child into the most lucrative profession, perhaps you should promote finance or medicine over engineering, but if you're getting your hands-on, anti-sit-at-a-desk type kid to succeed in college, engineering is going to be a good place for him. He might find another degree easier (exercise science, perhaps), but I want him to have the most versatile education possible, and I think that's engineering right now.  

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

If my child was good at math and science, and expressed an interest in engineering, I'd encourage them. It's an honorable career which has HIGH potential to make money, unlike much softer majors. But, I wouldn't push them into it either. I've know many people who cursed their parents because engineering school wasn't something they had really wanted. I don't ever want to be told, "I never wanted this, you forced me to do it."

Engineering was my idea, my choice, and I did it myself.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

Education required...

What is a "major"?  In The UK we choose the entire syllabus before we start.  A fresh-from-school kid has to know whether to be a poet or a doctor or an engineer before starting.  What's the score elsewhere?

I enrolled into a mechanical engineering degee at the age of 18.  Luckily I liked it.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

In general it is the same in the US, but there are a set of general requirments that everyone takes (English, social science electives, etc) and so you really don't have to declare a degree plan (major) until your sophmore year (or so). Engineers in general take engineering basic courses from the start (statics, dynamics, intro to electrical), but again you can begin pursuing an engineering degree without settling on a discipline until you are a sophmore or so...

At least in the schools around here, I suppose it is different state by state.

"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?" Oddball, "Kelly's Heros" 1970

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RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

SMS,

It sounds like your first year is general studies; your second year is a bit like our crammer 6th form years, where we do nothing but maths, physics and chemistry.  And then after that you specialise.  Almostlike the average UK 6th former is equivalent in education to a US graduate.  That would explain why US master's degrees are seemingly equivalent to UK bachelor's degrees in terms of knowledge.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

Sompting, now you've started it.

While things change over time in the UK people actually start to specialise at about 14 for their GCSEs, they still cover quite a few subjects (I did 9 + typing) but not everything.  

When I went to College (last 2 years of high school) I took 4 subjects (most took 3), all related to eventually going into Enginneering.  (I think now they have to take 5 for their first year but then typically only take 3 in their last).

Once at University as Sompting says I literally only studied Engineering.

I know the US system is meant to make you more rounded but having been here a while now I'm not entirely sure about this.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

"That would explain why US master's degrees are seemingly equivalent to UK bachelor's degrees in terms of knowledge"

I certainly did not mean to imply that.... and I am pretty sure that I don't agree with it. ponder



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RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

I would wish my kid to be an engineer
I know that it can be wierd enough for him to chose career in rafting or painting or anything..
But a typical art commerce or social job does not involve charm..
I mean you can see a 60 year old engineer also finding new things to learn from his job..his field is neverending...
It teaches you a way of life
Anecdote
We were 4 friends..who happened to visit some hotel out of our state
Now two of us who were engineers , we could understand the system of hot and cold water and shower and bathtub..
But other two non technical guys..just came out after some time asking others for help..
A simple scenario..
We call find such differences in many other things
Engeneering teaches new way of life...even though at the cost of salary and so called sophisticated bankers and lawyers job

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

But, you need to read the fine print.  The number of guys making those bucks is miniscule.  If even only the ones reading this thread all became investment bankers, a major portion of them would do no better than they did as engineers, and the ones that could would only dilute the salary pool.

Michael Jordan was unique and was paid accordingly.  If everyone who wished to be Michael Jordan could actually perform to the same level, the rewards would not be nearly as great.

TTFN

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RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

From an early age it was apparent that my son was headed for the hard sciences. Soft sciences or literature just was not his forte.

The only advice or encouragement that I gave him about engineering was that he could take an engineering degree and if engineering was not what he wanted to do then he would have the same skills and knowledge as a chemistry or a math major but a professional degree.

He is now a civil engineer intending to go into construction project management.

Encourage your kids to do what they want. They will be the ones doing it not you. Don’t try to make up for any failures or disappointments in your life by living through your kids.




Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
www.kitsonengineering.com

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

I just read this in the Times online

"At present the majority of universities charge £3,000 a year, the maximum permitted by the Government."

6000 USD (more or less) maximum per year for tuition?
If as the saying goes "you get what you pay for" then  Somptingguy I wonder a bit about your assesment of US vs UK education... A top notch university in the US could easily be twice that cost....  

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RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

sms, How do you propose to run that comparison? I don't think $$ cut it.

From personal experience I could rank engineering graduates from many countries... but even that is just anecdotal evidence.

Cheers

Greg Locock

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RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

Sorry Greg, that was meant as a joke...

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RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

Even now, at 30 years old, my parents aren't encouraging me to be an engineer. Every time I have any complaint about my job my parents try to get me to "find another vocation". Given that they complained about their jobs (teaching) for as long as I can remember, you'd think they'd have more understanding of the need to off-load every once in while!

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

sms, while your post may have been a joke, just to clarify.  Up until about 10 years ago university in the UK was 'free'.  In fact all but the wealthiest students (or students with wealthy parents) also got a grant to cover a portion of living costs.

The size of grant had gradually shrunk over time being suplemented with government backed student loans.

Then in about 99 they started to charge tuition fees, which now are apparantly up at $3000.

So basically, university education in the UK is government subsidized.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

The individual determines how well they learn, not the university or the country for that matter. And yes I will try to get my kids in tech jobs, not necessarily engineering, but something in the science based industry. This is not only for them, but for the welfare of there kids. I am not sure that I would continue to urge them if they resisted, but I would push them if they had doubts. All kids need to be pushed to be the best they can. So I guess if they picked a different job path, I would push them to be the best they could in that field. I think that is the most important thing, relating to coercing childern.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

Nothing is more fun than engineering a tough problem into a workable solution!

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

Nothing?  I love engineering but can think of at least one thing that's more fun.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

KENAT,

So can I, but I wouldn't encourage any kid to do THAT for a living !

RP

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

Pud,
My highest complement came from a German engineer in Hamburg who replied to my presentation:
'You haff really done your heimwerk.'

Yes, I had done much research in cigarette super-filtration and replacement flavors.  It was good to have the feeling that I was operating with equals. I consider Germany a second home.

After a year in Germany I went thru a reverse cultural shock. Having been acclimated to Germany, my return to Kennedy airport and NYC was a little disturbing.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

I probably wouldn't - I suggested to my son to become an engineer and....gasp!  He's now a practicing Architect!!!

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

The grass is always greener...

The much vaunted medical profession: Most doctors that are family practice are supposed to crank through 4 patients per hour.  Barely enough time to gladhand someone and grab the vitals, ask a couple of questions and generate a diagnosis.

Or imagine being a GI specialist and looking up people's butts 4 hrs every day of the week, averaging about 2 butts per hour.  And the rest of the day, you're still either looking up people's butts in your office, or talking to people about looking up their butts.

TTFN

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RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

Not in a million years.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

I cant wait to have an excuse to play with Legos and by all the cool ones they didnt have when I was a kid.

Basically they have Legos with everything for a robot that is programmable in LabView... I guess its indirect preparation for engineering.

see:
http://mindstorms.lego.com/eng/Overview/default.aspx

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

My son wants to sign up for a class in that at the local community college, he's only 12 so I'm thinking he'd be better waiting a year or so but I'll definitely support and encourage him in it.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

Perhaps I will encourage my kids to become the engineers' boss.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

A couple days ago, my 10 y.o. son told me that he wanted to "fix people's spines so they can walk again." I don't know where that came from, but last I checked those neurosurgeon guys make about 4x what I make. I think I'll encourage THAT for as long as he's interested : )

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

Neuro or Orthopedic, at least orthopedic involves some mechanical engineering in a waywinky smile

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

My daughter (4) want to be an 'awfur' (author). She spends hours a day (and hours a night if we let her) composing stories. I have a library of 60 stories she's authored.

I hope she follows her dream to become an author, or any of the 100 dreams she's going to have before she's 20 years old.

My son (2) just wants to play 'ockey' (hockey).

Both professions stack up pretty well salary-wise...

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

I did not read all the posts. Maybe some 20%.
But I read the thread, and it is a very actual question.
Let me share my opinion.

It is a matter of "basic values" here.
I do not see, for instance, philosophy as "basic value". You start to think about "who you are", "what you do here", "what is the meaning of life", when your belly is full, when you are repaired from rain, wind.
Do you follow me? When you have food and a house. When you have mainly satisfied your basic needs (basic values). Let me say: when the engineer has done the house, has provided you weapons to kill animals etc.

So, YES. As engineers are providing the basics for the survival, I would tell my son to study engineering (not only engineers belong to the "basic list". Doctors for instance are also there, more then there).

BUT, there is a but.

Is Research and Development (R&D) included in this list? Of course!
I live in Europe. I see that main engineering companies are moving out of Europe a BIG portion (if not all) of technical R&D. The managers that are driving this removal, probably will say to their son: "don't study programming, it is not worth". There is no future in Europe. "Programming is today the basic of R&D, in a lot of branches".
No problem in developing other Countries, I think it is quite correct and fair, but not with the risk of killing one "basic activity" in my own. That is not fair.

RESULT: I don't know if I will tell my son to study some particular technical subjects -basic subjects to my opinion- , that some smart people are moving away from my Country (Europe).
But probably yes, I would encourage him, because everything will come back, but it's a pitty.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

Most authors need day jobs to support their writing habits.

Hg

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RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

Sorry HgTX,
what do you mean with this?

"Most authors need day jobs to support their writing habits.
Hg
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RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

What IRstuff said.  It was a response to an earlier poster whose small child's current plan is to be an author.  If you become a J.K. Rowling or a John Grisham, great.  If you get *one* book contract, great for a little while; maybe you'll get another.

Otherwise, I have a lot of friends who are writers.  The only one I know who is currently making a living entirely by way of something resembling "authoring" gets a substantial chunk of her income by writing mild smut to pay the bills.  (Tech writing is a different skill set entirely and is a pretty good day job, but it's definitely not being an "author".)

Hg

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RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

good post, 'Why not be enginners, kids?'

Son #1 4th year Economics.
Son #2 2nd year Environmental Studies.

Brought this exact question up when they were both home last X-mas Hoildays.  Son #1's reply, 'Dad we've watched you work and work and work and worry and worry and worry for the last 20 years, you're still doing the same thing today.  Why the heck would we want to do that'.

Gave me cause to pour another Port after the meal was over and they had both left the table.

It's a life style.

A Sole Practitioner, Structural, 2008 AD.  The blood is on the tracks.

RE: Would You Encourage Your Kids to become Engineers?

Of course, it's unclear that someone going into Econ or Env. Studies won't wind up doing the same.

My only constraints on my kids are, it's got to be something that gets their juices going and they have to be able to earn a decent living at it.  In the end, your kids will do what they think they want, not what you want.

For all the whining about how bad engineers have it, they seem to all have computers at work where they can surf the web and answer questions such as the OP and gripe about other people making more money or getting more respect.  

There are truckloads of jobs where every keystroke is monitored and calculated to determine whether you're meeting your productivity goals.  Even my wife, as a doctor, has a productivity goal of 4 patients per hour.  Next time you gripe about how little time the doctor spent with you, you now know the reason why.  When you turn 65 and go to her and wonder why she never got to item 23 on your list of problems, you'll know the reason why.

TTFN

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