Return of Shop Drawings/Submittals
Return of Shop Drawings/Submittals
(OP)
Out of curiosity, for those that still red line shop drawings by hand, how many copies of the submittal do you typically send back to the architect or contractor?
In the 'old' days, it was fairly typical in my area of the country (Nebraska, USA) for the structural engineer to recieve two copies of say structural steel shop drawings. One blue-line copy and one sepia (sp?) copy. Only the sepia copy was returned to the architect, and either they or the contractor made copies of this for anyone who wanted or needed them.
This system evolved (around here) into the structural engineer receiving several copies of the drawings and the engineer was expected to copy his comments onto several copies to send back to the architect. Thus turning the structural engineer (or his/her intern )into a medieval scribe copying comments onto each copy instead of using a copy machine to accomplish the same thing.
Under this system, I typically would return no more than 3 copies of a sumbittal to the architect. One copy of the architect, one copy for the General Contractor, and one copy for the fabricator or subcontractor doing this piece of the work.
In the last year I have recived requests on a few projects (demands really) to provide 5 or 6 copies of submittals back to the architect. The architects now claim that the owner(s) want copies, and the general contractor needs multiple copies, etc. (Personally, I really don't believe this.)
On some submittals, it is only a matter of a few minutes to copy my comments over, and send things on their way. But on large buildings, the shop drawings can be very extensive, and if there are a lot of comments on them, making extra copies involves considerable time and expense on our part to provide.
I am curious as to what other Structural Engineers are doing in this area.
- Do you copy your comments over by hand to mutliple copies? Or do you only send one 'reproducible' set back to the architect?
- If you need to provide mutliple copies back to the architect, how many copies do you typically send? Do you copy the commetns by hand, or send a copy to a print shop and make copies that way, at your expense?
In the 'old' days, it was fairly typical in my area of the country (Nebraska, USA) for the structural engineer to recieve two copies of say structural steel shop drawings. One blue-line copy and one sepia (sp?) copy. Only the sepia copy was returned to the architect, and either they or the contractor made copies of this for anyone who wanted or needed them.
This system evolved (around here) into the structural engineer receiving several copies of the drawings and the engineer was expected to copy his comments onto several copies to send back to the architect. Thus turning the structural engineer (or his/her intern )into a medieval scribe copying comments onto each copy instead of using a copy machine to accomplish the same thing.
Under this system, I typically would return no more than 3 copies of a sumbittal to the architect. One copy of the architect, one copy for the General Contractor, and one copy for the fabricator or subcontractor doing this piece of the work.
In the last year I have recived requests on a few projects (demands really) to provide 5 or 6 copies of submittals back to the architect. The architects now claim that the owner(s) want copies, and the general contractor needs multiple copies, etc. (Personally, I really don't believe this.)
On some submittals, it is only a matter of a few minutes to copy my comments over, and send things on their way. But on large buildings, the shop drawings can be very extensive, and if there are a lot of comments on them, making extra copies involves considerable time and expense on our part to provide.
I am curious as to what other Structural Engineers are doing in this area.
- Do you copy your comments over by hand to mutliple copies? Or do you only send one 'reproducible' set back to the architect?
- If you need to provide mutliple copies back to the architect, how many copies do you typically send? Do you copy the commetns by hand, or send a copy to a print shop and make copies that way, at your expense?






RE: Return of Shop Drawings/Submittals
RE: Return of Shop Drawings/Submittals
RE: Return of Shop Drawings/Submittals
From this point of view, I can see the rationality behind the architect asking for more number of originals.
I suggest that you use a color copier to make additional copies from your original check print. This way your comments in red will stand out, which may satisfy the architect.
RE: Return of Shop Drawings/Submittals
RE: Return of Shop Drawings/Submittals
Copying the notes is a pain. I try to find someone else to do it for me. I do see the point Shin25 made. I'd prefer to read a comment in red. But I think a color copier is a better alternative and it should be the contractor's responsibility, and not the person I find to it for me. Ha.
RE: Return of Shop Drawings/Submittals
The cost of scanning a full size drawing in color is only about $3.00 if you don't need photo quality scans. Much cheaper than any other type of reproduction.
RE: Return of Shop Drawings/Submittals
During the last year or so, we've started using a local reproduction company to create color photocopies of the redlined sheets. The photocopies are the same size as the submittal sheets and are in red. Works good so far, although we've had to pay for the copies. The copies are less expensive than the manpower needed to transfer the marks.
RE: Return of Shop Drawings/Submittals
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: Return of Shop Drawings/Submittals
RE: Return of Shop Drawings/Submittals
We use a thick marker that shows up very clear on the scan. You cannot miss the redmarks!
RE: Return of Shop Drawings/Submittals
RE: Return of Shop Drawings/Submittals
The idea to write into the contract how many copies go back, and the price to produce additional sets beyond that is a good idea, as is the idea of scanning the set and sending back a CD of PDF's and letting anyone who wants a copy print their own. Our company doesn't have a scanner that big, but sending them out to a copy center would work for that.
Definately ideas to consider to save time and money.
Thanks.
RE: Return of Shop Drawings/Submittals
The thing I always worry about when having someone else copy marks is that if they miss something it could be very expensive to fix. I'd hate to tell a client that MY copy has it marked correctly but we missed it when an intern transferred the marks on THEIR copy. Ouch.
I don't know the legals regarding changes on shop drawings (if they are binding to the contract) but I do know they can be critical to the way things go together in the field!
RE: Return of Shop Drawings/Submittals
Mike McCann
McCann Engineering
RE: Return of Shop Drawings/Submittals
RE: Return of Shop Drawings/Submittals
RE: Return of Shop Drawings/Submittals
I would love it if I could get the fabricators to submit on 11x17 sheets. So much easier to work with.
Do you require this in your specs? Do contractors or fabricators object?
On a side note: The local Vulcraft plant submits steel deck and joist drawings on 'F' size sheets (36" x 48"). The things don't even fit on my drafting table! Been a source of annoyance to me for years.
RE: Return of Shop Drawings/Submittals
RE: Return of Shop Drawings/Submittals
RE: Return of Shop Drawings/Submittals
I prefer less big sheets than lots of small ones.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...