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HP 35s for you RPN engineers
7

HP 35s for you RPN engineers

HP 35s for you RPN engineers

(OP)
Check out HPs new scientific calculator...

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/215348-215348-64232-20037-215351-3442983.html

I don't want to get a big discussion about how they don't build them like they used to but I bought one because I smoke through a HP 33s about once a year.  I never have had one of the older 32s or any of their bigger graphing calcs.  I bought the 33s when I was taking the PE exam and got stuck on the RPN.  I just opened the box this morning but it appears that it has a much more "classic" feel to it and the buttons seem much better.  It seems to follow the same designs as the little RPN financial calculator they sell.  I didn't know if others who use RPN had seen this latest offering so I thought I would post it on here.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Cool.  I bought a 50g a couple of months ago and am thinking of buying a 35s.  The 50g is unbelievably powerful, but the keys are too hard for my tastes.

I have a 33s and really don't like it.  Keys are very hard and there's the weird layout.

How do the 35s keys compare to other models?  The 48g keys are perfect IMO.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

5
(OP)
I can't really comment on the other models first hand.  I have only used the 33s for any real number crunching.  One guy hear has used HP's since the early days and he looked at my new 35s and said it looked like they went back to the older designs that everyone loved so much.  Like I said though I can't really comment as I have been using the 33s for several years.  My biggest reason for changing is that I break keys every year on the 33s and this calculator appears to be much better built with the resemblence to the financial calculator.  I used it most of this afternoon and I like it.  The buttons seemed much more solid.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I bought an HP 49g about 2 years ago that was having problems with it turning on and they sent a refurbished replacement. After using the replacement for a few hours, the zero key smashed in. They sent another refurbished replacement that worked for a few months then I began having problems with it and eventually a key smashed in on it also. Now I use a calculator that you might find at your grocery store.

I won't buy another HP, I will try TI next time I decide to buy a graphing calculator.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Similar story.
I had used HPs for over 20 years but in the late 90s got sick of the keys playing up.
I've bought two cheap ones since 2000 and they are both still going strong. Still miss the RPN though.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I'm pretty sure the 33s (maybe) and 49g (certainly) are the only HPs with substandard quality.

TI for better keys?!  Now there's a funny one!!

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

aggman - that looks very much like the older (1980's) style HP - how thick is it?

haynewp - I'm shocked at you.  Man you are like one of the engineering mainstays here and you suggest that you'd use a TI?  (just ribbing you a little!)

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

purpleface

I really wanted another HP but I had such bad luck with those 49g+'s... Isn't the 50g supposed to be a replacement for the 49g+?

For anybody that has the 50g; besides tough keys, any other problems?

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I am extremely happy with my 50g other than the key hardness.  I prefer softer (but still with that famous HP tactile click) keys than most, so this might be a non-issue for you.  

It seems reasonably tough.  It took a severe drop on concrete with minimal damage.  A small piece of plastic came off, but popped back on.

Some don't like the Enter key location, but I think it might even be a little faster for me.

They've included tremendous functionality and the processor seems very fast.

In the end, I still do mainly punching of equations, not programming, etc., so the hard keys just about cancel out everything else.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I bought a 35s the day after they were announced, mostly as a new toy to add to my modest collection. It's actually a pretty nice calculator, though it's not perfect. The 35s is based on the 33s (and the 32sii and 32s before that) with some enhancements, both internal and external. HP added functionality (including the ability to access more storage registers) and a few bugs (or are they features). Much of the recent traffic on www.hpmuseum.org has been about the 35s, both the good and the bad.

Construction is very good, and getting closer to the old workhorses. The keys feel very good, and have the sloped front face like the 41. Screen contrast is excellent, but the theta symbol in complex numbers looks a lot like an 8. Fortunately, I don't use complex numbers in my work. Overall, I consider the 35s to be a big step in the right direction.

However, the 35s won't replace my day-to-day calculator, which is a 19-year-old HP-42S. The 42s has vastly more power in terms of functions (about 600 vs about 100) and programming. The 35s has more memory (32k vs 8k), but for me the difference is not important. I have a bunch of programs for the 42S that I use all the time--some originating with the 41--that can't be easily ported to the 35s (or even my 48G+ for that matter), so the 42S will remain my calculator of choice. To guard against the day when the 42S finally gives up the ghost, I have Thomas Okken's excellent Free42 emulator on both my PC and my Palm TX (http://home.planet.nl/%7Edemun000/thomas_projects/free42/).

Fred
(HP-35/HP-55/HP-34C/HP-41C/HP-41CX/HP-42S/HP48G/HP48G+/HP32Sii/HP10B/HP35s)

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

fel3, how would you rate the 35s' key stiffness and travel distance compared to your 48G's?

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

271828…

The keys on the 35s are less stiff than the 48G+ and seem to have slightly less travel. The key action on the 35s most resembles the 41 series, which many acknowledge as HP's best. However, there have been a few reports of missed keystrokes on the 35s, though I have not experienced any. I'm guessing the text messaging folks are trying to key too fast smile.

Fred

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I used an HP 48g for years until the "enter" key decided to malfunction.  I bought a 50g a few months ago.  It's a little different than the 48g and I'm still finding my way around it's functions, but a good handheld calculator.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

This looks a lot like my HP 41, which I still use after 20+ years.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Aggman:

Thank You for posting!!

We had not seen this come out, and a few guys in this office are definately interested.

There is something about the 'old' HP calculators that you just can't find anywhere else.

Have a 25 year old HP-15c that I still use as my 'all day, every day' calculator. Will have to consider this new one and save the 15c for 'special' occasions.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I like the look of this 35s.  I had a 32sII (http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/product?product=58450&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en&lang=en&cc=us) for many, many years and it was fantastic!

After it died (sniff, sniff) I bought a 33s (http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/215348-215348-64232-20037-215351-370805.html).  It's OK, but not as good as the 32sII.  It has a shocking decimal point that is very difficult to see.

Is there any better calculator than a HP?

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

"Is there any better calculator than a HP?"

In what context?  For a bloated toy, one could look at the TI Nspire.

The 33s and 49g are the two poor models.  The 48g, 50g, and 35s seem to be liked by most who buy them.

The other day, I had to use one of my pal's TI-86 and I really hated the keystrokes.  About like mush, with no tactile feel at all.

I have a funny story.  I taught Steel I last fall and gave the students an equation that took a whole line to write (AISC Lr equation).  I think 3 of 37 made it through that one without a calculator error.  Every single person used a TI-whatever.  I knew I'd catch grief over this, so I timed myself with my HP48g.  It took me an average of 27 sec. with zero errors using RPN!  Some ribbing ensued during the next class!

That's the bottom line for me--RPN vs algebraic sea of parentheses nonsense.  FWIW, it takes me 30 sec. with my HP50g because the keys are harder.  Also takes 30 sec. with my 33s also because the keys are harder.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

You ought to share the equation with us to see how we all would do.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

My two 15C's date from the early 80's and still work flawlessly.

If only HP could come up with a calculator that has a PDA built-in, I'd buy in a nanosecond.  I've got a PDA with an RPN-clone, but it's not even remotely comparable to my beloved 15C

TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

JAE, LOL, it's simple.  AISC 2005 Eq. F2-6.  Just pick some section and go at it!

I'd guess that I'm fairly average punching these things through my calculator.  If somebody here can beat 20 sec., then they should get some kind of prize!

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I don't need a calculator, but as soon as I see one of these I'm going to buy it.
I'll keep it in case my main HP (48GX) and its little son (32SII) break.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I'm surprised none of you ubernerds reported how fast you can crank through the Lr equation!  

This thread overcame my discipline, so I ordered a 35s this afternoon.  I'll have a museum at some point.

HP28S, HP33s, HP48G, HP50g, and Tuesday I'll have a HP35s!

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Though it has been mentioned several times here is the URL for the HP Museum.

http://www.hpmuseum.org/

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Dear friends,

Has anyone try to self rebuild the battery pack for HP41CV?

I'm still using it in my work for 27 years!!!
And now I have to use external Battery Duracell LR1 MN9100

thanks

joemcgal

1976 HP25, 1981 HP41CV, 1993 HP48G, 1995 HP 42 and .....2007 hp35????

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Joemcgal:

If you are looking for repairs to an HP calculator, try
FIX THAT CALC. Know a couple of engineers who have sent their old HP calculators to this place for repairs, and they have been pleased with the results. Unfortunately, the wait to get the calculator back can be quite lengthy. The web site is:

http://www.fixthatcalc.com/news.htm

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I have an HP35s, and so far I am pleased with it. I like it much better than what they did with the 33s.  Although it's a step in the right direction, I don't think it is the equal of the older HP's, but at least we have the big ENTER key and classic color scheme again.

With that said, I'll never give up my HP11c, 32sii, and the mighty 42s.  They are built to be durable, and the numbers on the keys are molded into the key, not just painted on. If this means that I'm a geek (my wife says it does), then I'm ok with that.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

271828 - what - no HP 11C?  One of the best little pocket calculators ever made.

HP 11C link

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Nope.  Just slightly before my time and I think they're heinously expensive now.

My 35s should be here tomorrow! :)

I'd love to have one of those 1980-82 models like 11c or 15c.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

lkjh345

Thanks for the website! Before I plunk down $60 to buy a new 35s I might give these guys a try. I have a 32s and a 32sii that both seem to function intermittantly and need a rest after long hours of calculating. I bought a 33s to take some of the strain off of them but I have never been happy with it. If I could get either or both of 32's working I would be a happy man.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Drat!!  My 35s didn't show up today.  Should be here tomorrow.

How come nobody's taken me up on the Lr equation challenge?  F2-6 of the 13th Ed. Spec.  I used a W24x55, but any section should be about the same.

Here's what I got:
 
Using 33s: 30 sec.
Using 50g: btwn 24 & 25 sec. (yep, got it down)
Using 48G: btwn 21 & 22 sec. (just a minute ago)

I'd be interested to see if any of the other models have superior keyboard layout and feel, allowing faster times.

I'd be VERY interested to see the max speed anybody can muster with a non-RPN calculator.

Yeah, I know I'm weird...

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

271828

uh...we're just sitting here in awe.

surprise

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

No seriously.  I'd guess that I'm probably pretty average.  Maybe a little faster than average, but not the Mario Andretti of calculators by any means.

I think somebody around here is bound to be able to beat 20 sec.

On the other hand, my TI-wielding students last year couldn't get it at all, much less in a reasonable timeframe, LOL.  Gotta taunt the TI folks into giving it a shot!!

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

271828:

Your good! Best I could get was about 40 seconds on an HP-15c.

I need some serious practice!

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

lkjh345, well, for all you guys know I'm not even an engineer and I made it up.

Thanks for taking a shot at it!  I guess it would make a difference if you hadn't done that equation in a while or very much.  I do a lot of Chapter F manual calcs, verifying programs and making example problems.  I use that equation as a benchmark, but perhaps using one equation over and over again isn't a fair way to do that.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

joemcgal,

Sorry, I tossed my 2 rechargable battery packs for my 41.  Both refused to charge and I didn't know where to take them.  I buy Duracells or Radio Shack size N now, and keep 4 spares in my desk.

I will cry when that calculator gives up the ghost.  Even HP doesn't make a better one.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Woohoo!!  My 35s just arrived!  

After 5 min. prying it out of the blister pack, I was able to try it out.  I really like the keyboard feel and layout.  It's sure tiny compared to my 48G and 50g.  I was able to do a 23 sec. calc on my benchmark, which I can only exceed with my 48G that I've been using for 10 years.  I think it's going to be a winner.

The screen glare is a bit too much, but the hpmuseum forum folks have a recommendation for that, although I forgot what it is.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Well, after reading all the postings I figured I also tell my storey. I have been using the HP calculators for many many years. More than I would like to admit. I started originally with a TI calculator but that was when I didn’t know better. Soon after I found out about the HP calculators and got me the HP 15 and never looked back at least when TI came out with the TI 59 (I think) that had a card reader. It was obviously much cheaper than a comparable HP so I bought one. A couple of months later, I gave that to a friend and went back to my HP. I bought another HP calculator (HP 32SII) since. I have never had any problems with any of them and am now debating between HP 35S and the HP 50g. I like the look of HP35S and would buy it in a heart beat only if it would take SD cards or could be connected to a PC. HP 50g is just too bulky and keys are not where I like them to be.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

kxa, I guess your question comes down to what you want: a scientific calculator or a programmable one.  

Part of the 35s' elegance is its size.  Adding a USB port and/or SD card slot would be add un-needed bulk.  Besides, what could one hope to pipe to/from a PC?  It does not have extensive RPL programming capabilities.  

The 50g is an unbelievably powerful calculator.  I just don't have any reason to program a calculator; that's what my computer is for, but that's just my application.  I've written lots of programs for my 48G, but never really used them for anything, with my interpolation program being the only real exception.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I've written a program for my HP48GX - It is for a concrete beam, flexural design per ACI.  Basically I enter the fy, f'c, B, b, d, t, and Mu for a T beam (B is the flange width, b is the web width) and it spits out a graphic screen that summarizes the input and gives me the minimum, maximum, and required As for the beam.  I also have it do shear stirrup designs, LRFD steel shapes (phi Mn) etc.

I admit, I don't use it everyday, but it does come in handy sometimes.

Here's a snap of it:

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Still working with my 41CX and would not be satisfied with anything less.  

The 35s battery life appears way too short - 1 hour per day for 9 months - I could use that up in a couple of months...  And it has no printer - don't like that.

Even with the accessories, the batteries for the 41CX last over a year under constant use.

I will have to erect a memorial when my 41CX dies - there will never be another.

Mike McCann
McCann Engineering

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

One of my most often used HP41 programs is used to compute dimensions in feet, inches and sixteenths of an inch.  I use this extensively when I am working with shop drawings.  There is no function that does this so it is a short program; well set of programs actually.  The keyboard assignment functions allow me to switch to this mode easily because the subroutines use the letter names.  They'll have to pry my 41 out of my cold dead fingers.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

JAE, that's a snazzy looking program!  I had the phiMn equation programmed into my 48G, but at some point just started using As=Mu/4d for anything I didn't use the computer for, LOLOL, so forgot about it.  Talk about Lazy Man Engineering (LME)!

Dinosaur, the 35s allows fractional input also, but I'm not sure it would be to your exact specifications.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

For some reason Weird Al's "White and Nerdy" video just came to mind.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

LOL, haynewp!  You make the top 5-6 MVP list in an engineering forum!  I'd say that's pretty darn nerdy too, although I have no idea if you're white.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I challenged some of the younger guys on their TI's to 271828's equation.  I could never break 35 seconds or so with my fat fingers, but I beat those guys every time...

We also laughed about how nerdy it was that we were challenging each other and trash talking about how fast we could do calculations on these machines...



If you "heard" it on the internet, it's guilty until proven innocent. - DCS

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I worked with a guy that kept his calculator in a holster on his belt like a pistol. {Maybe he was quick on the draw}

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

haynewp - that holster comment reminded me of a day when I was in college - walking to class with a Mechanical Engineering friend of mine.  Snowy day in winter and we were crossing a main street which was on a small hill.

A car was coming down the street and tried to stop at the light but began sliding on the packed snow/ice which was on the road.  I saw the car in time to run out of the way but my friend didn't see it until it was on him.

He quickly jumped straight up in the air and was hit by the car, rolled over the hood and windshield into a snow drift there on the side of the street.

The driver got out screeming and I was running over to him.  He jumped up out of the pile of snow, grabbed his HP calculator out of his "holster" and began punching numbers.

He breathed a big sigh and said, "Thank goodness...it still works", and smiled.  We thought he'd be injured or something but his only concern was the coveted HP.

HP calculators were about $400 back then and in today's dollars that's a bunch.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Yeah that's crazy. I have to get another calculator soon, I only have the grocery store model and a 16 year old 48SX that the keys are so worn out on they feel like mashed potatoes. I was very protective of it at one time.

If I get a 50G I will see if I they make a holster for it. That way I can feel like Dirty Harry since the 50G is supposed to be HP's magnum. (just kidding)

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Dirty Harry, huh.

Quote:

I know what you're thinkin', punk. You're thinkin', did he solve a quadratic equation with that thing or didn't he? And to tell you the truth, I forgot myself in all this excitement. But bein' this is an HP 50G, the most powerful calculator in the world, and it'll blow your mind with its large display and exquisite keystrokes, you could ask yourself a question. Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?



RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I'd like to have a HP50g with a lighter trigger pull, thank you very much.  Maybe a single action model...

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

...or one with a built-in neck massage vibrator!

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I needed a finger or forearm muscle massager after a page or two of calcs with my 50g.  Did I mention that the keys are very stiff and require a long travel before registering? (about 10 times already...)

I actually inquired recently about vibration analyzers built to use the HP50g for the interface and calculations.  It does FFT, IIFTs, etc. and has the USB interface, so surely that could work.  Currently, it's almost impossible to find any analyzers under $4k and most are over $10k.  

That kind of application is about the only thing I can personally envision using such a powerful calculator for.  I'm totally sold on my 35s now after using it a week.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Oops, meant IFFTs--don't want any MEs or EEs to come over here and think we structural guys don't know any better.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

huge thread, JAE yes the 11C was a fantastic number cruncher and I can't tell you how long I used it 10 years for sure, and I cant tell you you how many times it dropped out of my pocket and I would go scrambling after it.  Gave up the ghost though and replaced it with 32SII which I've used for about the past 6 years, the enter key works but well they should never have made it so wide, it takes a pounding and oddly enough the calculator seems to be giving up the ghost today.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I have been using HP 41CV over the last 25 years and I love it. I have three used HP-41CVs that I use for spare parts.
Without RPN I feel stupid.  It is the way to go.


Regards,
Lutfi

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I say JAE and Lutfi should have a gunfight, errr, calculator fight--HP 50G versus HP 41CV.  May the better calculator win!!!

And those of you with TI or Casio calculators--don't even try a shootout against those of us with HP's!!!

DaveAtkins

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

HP use to make a hard leather case for its early calculators.    It was great for surveying or any type of job where you need a calculator out in the field.  The advantage of a "holster" in college was that you always had your calculator with you.  You could then leave your books out in the library and not worry about some one stealing your calculator.

When the early HP's came out you could leave it out with your books and no one would steal it or your books.  It only took a couple of years after that, before anything left ungaurded was likely to get stolen.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Since we are on the subject, I see that HP has a 48gII on their website. Has anyone used it? How does it compare to the 48g? My first one died some time ago and my current one is the company's. The 48g might be the only thing I miss when I'm in a new job.
I think I could get used to the enter key in the corner, but I wonder how the keys feel.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Eight HP 48g and 48gx for sale on Amazon. I bought one 48g in original plastic wrap with manuals/case for $80.  Get em while you can, best of all the HP's.  I put the equation (F2-6) for Lr into equation library and then spent less than 16 seconds defining the variables. used a channel for a longer expression of "c".

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

RARSWC,

The leather case idea was actually taken from the slide rules. I recall having my slide rule case attached to my belts. This brings good memories for those of us who used slide rules.

Correct me if I am wrong, didn’t manufactures in early calculator days, call them slide rules!!

Regards,
Lutfi

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

The 35s has a nice case for field use, IMO.  It zips open and holds the calculator in place with a little elastic strap that doesn't get in the way.  It even has a net on the other side that can hold a small triangle, piece of paper, or whatever.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Yes the earliest calculators were marketed as electronic slide rules.  The earliest could do little more than addition, subtraction, multiplication and division.  A good slide rule was more capable with trig and other functions.  However, that soon changed.

The mention of so many "old" HPs still in use is a testament to the quality of these little wonders.  How many other manufacturers of calculators can provide a list of owners that have been using one of theirs for the past 25 years or more?

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I think maybe I'm the only person in the world who likes the HP33s. I used a 48GX all through school, then I went to take the PE exam and found out it was not allowed. So, I got a 33s and grumbled about it like everyone else. For the PE exam, it was the only RPN calculator allowed, and therefore, the only option. After using it non-stop preparing for the exam for a few months, I really started to like it. Now I use it every single day and my trusty ol' 48 stays in the drawer except for really nasty big equations that I run across once a year. The 33s isn't perfect, but I've had really good luck with it and like using it. Even the silver/bent-keypad look has grown on me; kind of retro-60's Buck Rogers-ish. The feel of the keys on my 33s is excellent, more firm than the 48, but I've never missed a key stroke.

I did have a problem with the #4 key sticking. I called up HP, they sent a new one out immediately, I had the new one in hand in just a few days, I sent the broken one in and haven't had a problem since. You can't ask for better service than that.

I think more than anything, the 33s is the unwitting victim of the pent up frustrations of militant HP enthusiasts, disgruntled at HP for not reintroducing their personal favorite HP calculator, and worse still, for introducing the new calculator in silver.

The 35s has gotten a much warmer reception than the 33s for two main reasons: the big enter key, located where it's supposed to be and...it's brown. That's pretty much it. The 35s carries over several of the faults of the 33s. The one that I'd like to see fixed the most is an improved screen; more pixels for better characters and less glare.

I'll get a 35s just because of the cool, classic HP look and because it's essentially a dressed up 33s, which I already like. I will miss the X^2 key of the 33s. I'll just have to put up with the extra workload of pressing a shift key before pressing the X^2 button.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

jdog, you won't be sorry if you get a 35s.  I've had mine for 2 months and it's wonderful.  I really can't think of a single problem with it.  

As for losing x^2, I just hit Enter then multiply and that takes care of it.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Long time HP user. Tried 33's and the keys kept messing up. Got the 35s. Nice except I have some problems with not always getting what I keyed in. Decimel point in particular.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

see if there is a "keytime" option, I know there is one for the HP 49 that I could adjust. The default setting was slower than I typed so it wouldn't always register the numbers.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

ron, I think you should consider sending it back for a replacement.  I've read many reviews of the 35s and have never heard another one like that.  The keys all seem perfect to me.  haynewp, I don't believe it has any setting such as keytime that's on the 49g and 50g--could be wrong, though.

Over 2 months with my 35s and I'm still loving it.  I've been told that I'm about the pickiest calculator user in existence, so that says something!  I only have one teeny, tiny little gripe and that's RPN vs RPL.  With RPL, there's no need to consider the order of operation due to the infinite stack.  With RPN, one really needs to consider the order as to not run out of stack.  That's fine in general, but is a slight problem for one particular case: back-solving for a variable in a many term, relatively complicated equation.  I've been using RPL so long, I can back out a single variable of 99.999% of equations that I see.  With RPN, one must go from inside->out.  If the back-solution is complicated enough, I can't visualize where will be the inside!  I have to write out an equation every now and then taht I could punch through using RPL.  This is seldom enough that I'm willing to live with it.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I have been using my 35s for about a month now and am fairly happy with it.  Much better construction than the 33s (I went through two of those and the keys went bad on both).  My only complaint about the 35s--you have to use the shift key to do x^2, and to store numbers.  Otherwise, it is working out well for me.

DaveAtkins

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Ron, I would definitley send it back for a replacement.  I think the 35s is a good calculator.  I have had no problems with mine

I've been using the 35s since the beginning of August, and am so far very pleased with it.  My daily use calculator used to be the HP42s, but I actually like using the 35s more.  My only gripes are that I don't like the "STO" function being shifted, and for me, the key dedicated to complex numbers is a waste.

What I really like are its programming abilities, the ability to store equations, and the return to the chamfered keys of the 11c and 15c.  I have the direct equation for area of steel (from CRSI)in my equation list, and use it all the time.  I also have a nice library of programs for steel, masonry, and wood design.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

271828,

Does the 50g have the keytime command?  I've looked and can't seem to find it, but I would love to change it if I can.  I'm constantly missing repeating numbers because it doesn't register fast enough.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

MarcbSE, it sure does, although I forgot how to set it.  Go over to www.hpmuseum.org and search through their forum.  This topic has been discussed multiple times over there.

I sold my 50g because I'm too much of a wimp to deal with those stiff, long traveling keys.   I REALLY like the 50g other than its keys.  That's one amazingly powerful machine!  I went from my 48G, which I used for 10 years or more to the 50g and immediately had many times the errors.  After 2 months, setting keytime, etc., I still stunk using it, so I bought a 35s.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

bjb and Dave, I'm with you on the sto being shifted.  That's really too bad.  As for x^2 being shifted, I'm totally with you there.  HP's attitude is that astute RPN users would just hit enter then multiply to square something.  This is fine as long as one's not short on registers.  

I like the imaginary number, though, because one can do rect->polar very fast using it with abs and arg.  The only other way (besides trig, LOL) to do that is to change display options, which stinks IMO.

I wish they would have made room for x^2 and sto by shifting (), GTO, or XEQ.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

271828,  I also bought the 50g after losing my 48gx on an airplane...

I've been very happy with it except for the keytime issue.  I'll check on the hpmuseum forum.  Thanks!

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Went to the hp museum site, found my original 11C, but couldn't find my current crapped out hp32SII, yes thats roman numerals II at the end.  Staring at both calculators at the moment ... both caput.  Anybody else have a 32SII?  Starting to worry, had it for about the last 6 years.  Is this a phantom calculator of dubious origin I've been using for the last six years?  Can't wait for my new 35s which is on the way, apparently on a slow boat from China.  Totally lost without the RPN.  You have no idea how many times I've checked and re-checked and calculated and recalculated in bits and pieces, scribbling numbers on a piece of paper, even pulled out my math handbook to check tig no's using this Texas Instrument thing, tan 45 deg = 1.00, I think, better check it.  You know we used slide rules in 1st year engineering,  where is that sliderulera guy when you need him?

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I think I remember you enter the desired keytime on the stack, like "450", then enter "-->keytime", all without the quotes.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

haynewp,
Yes, that is correct.  It took me a little time to find the appropriate format to enter the "-->keytime" but found it.  Thanks for the post!

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

271828,

I prefer the way polar to rect conversions were handled on the 32SII.  I normally do my conversions manually though.  Another small gripe I have with the 35s is that the Theta symbol looks too much like the number 8.

On ballance though, I think the 35s is a good calculator, and I hope it shows that HP is back on track with its calculators.  It's good to see so much response to this thread regarding HP calculators, I hope that means that sales of the 35s and the 50g are good, and that we can look forward to RPN being available for a long time.  I'd be lost without an RPN calculator.

Having X^2 being shifted doesn't bother me because every HP I've ever owned has been that way except the 33s.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I just ordered the HP 35S from HP online shopping. For anybody else the got theirs through HP, did they require a signature for FEDEX delivery?

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

What size and type of batteries do the 35's take?  And, do es it have a support package of a printer similar to the 41 series?

MADE IN CHINA????????????????????  Somehow I cannot logically think of the Chinese as reverse Polish.

Mike McCann
McCann Engineering

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Takes two 3V CR2032 batteries.  They're about the size of nickels, thicker of course.  

No support for a printer or other communications, undoubtedly with PE tests in mind.

Yep, it's made in China.  Quality seems fine, though.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I just ordered a 35s from Amazon over the weekend. Being the cheapskate that I am, I stuck with the free shipping, so there's really no telling when it will show up. I'm interested to see how it stacks up against my 33. In any case it's nice to see that HP appears to be listening to what people want.

On a related note, NCEES just released their updated approved calculator list. Both the 33s and the 35s are on the list. Good news for HP users. This could be an HP/RPN revival.

My only complaint about the 33 is the small enter key located in the strangest place possible. Using the 33 for so long has kind of messed me up. I was so used to my 48 that it took me forever to get used to the 33 enter key. I was constantly hitting R/S, where the enter key is on the 48. Now, when I go to use my 48, I'm constantly hitting the SPC key, where the enter key for my 33 is located. Maybe using the 35 for a while will get me straightened out.

I will miss the X^2 key of the 33. On an RPL machine, like the 48, I used to just hit enter again and then multiply the two to square things. You can get away with things like that when you have an infinite stack. You get a little sloppy and lazy with a big stack like that because it's quick and easy. RPN is a different animal. When I started using the 33 while studying for the PE exam, I had to clean up my number crunching practices to make more efficient usage of the teeny tiny 4-level stack. RPN requires a little more thought before diving into a big equation.

I'll post some thoughts on the 35s after I get it and have had a chance to play around with it.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I have a (gasp) 42s.  How does the 35s compare?

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I just got the 35S. The only complaint I have so far is that I have also noticed the decimal point not registering a couple of times when doing a calculation.

It has happened when I am speeding through a calc and I think I don't press down hard enough. But it seems to register fine when I test it, for instance if I deliberately press it in combination with a number over and over. Such as hitting 2.2.2.2.2.2.2 very fast and deliberately with my thumb.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

This has been a fun thread.

Just wondering - does Eng-Tips get a sales commission from HP on all the 35S's that have been purchased due to this thread? If they don't, they should!

I'm thinking of getting one too, I still have my dead HP45.  I just can't bear to part with it.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

The keys not registering is what I was referring to above. It seems if I am watching the strokes as I enter it works and if I'm not watching and going fast it misses keys. Doesn't seem to be limited to the decimal key. Not sure how or why.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

same here. It may be a timing issue when pressing one digit and then the next rather than not pressing the buttons hard enough. If I go through "9876543210" very fast it will miss one of the digits every couple of times I try. I know it sounds stupid but I type in calculations very fast and don't always look at what I am entering. I have been catching it when I get for example, a 2.5" thick steel plate when I was expecting about a 0.25" plate for an answer. I am not sure if it is a problem with the particular calculators we have or if we are just typing in numbers faster than everyone else on this thread and this is causing the problem. I do not believe there is a "keytime" feature like there is on the 50G that you can adjust if you type in numbers very fast.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I think this happens when one key isn't totally let up before the next one is mashed.  I've noticed that I miss keystrokes from time to time, but I'm pretty sure this is why.  A flaw?  A user error?  Up for debate, I suppose.  I'm still faster with my HP35s than the others, so I'm willing to live with it.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I enter numbers fast also and this is a problem for me. Learned to use both hands when I used a 41CX. I want it to work for me but if I can't adjust then I will have to replace it. Can't afford to make a mistake because of my calculator.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

haynewp,

Here's an interesting experiment, which is at least a little related to the last couple of posts.  

Try pressing 1, 2, and 3, keeping 1 and 2 pressed while you press 3.  Do it fast or slow and either way you should see all three numbers.  Try the same with 7, 8, and 9.  Then try the same with 4, 5, and 6.  Mine won't register all three on that row, regardless of which order I punch them.  Not saying you're holding them down, but it's interesting seeing how there seems to be some patterns to this kind of thing.

As another, more direct experiment, I tried pressing any alternating keystrokes, 1,2,3,4,5..., etc. and no matter how fast I punch them, I can't get mine to miss one.  Not saying I'm the Carl Lewis of calculators, but I'm punching them really fast in this experiment.  Could you have a faulty calculator?  After trying this, I don't see how speed could be the problem.  You should be able to go very fast and only have "operator errors" LOL.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Mine does the same. The press and hold 1,2 then 3 registers all of them and pressing and holding 7,8 then 9 but it doesn't work on the 4-5 then 6. Also doesn't work going backwards with 6-5 then 4. Does yours work on on 1-2 then 4 or 1-2 then 7? Mine does not.

Very interesting that you found that anomaly.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I can't get it to miss when going through 123456 very fast either. Maybe I have just been fat thumbed and hitting two keys exactly the same time like "5,6".

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Mine also will not do 1-2 then 4 or 1-2 then 7.  It also won't do 8-9 then 3.  I suppose these are trivial points, though.

Errors do seem to happen more often with the decimal.  I tried holding down the decimal key and pressing every number and they all worked.  I also tried the reverse.  Hold down any number and press the decimal and that worked.  My only idea is that the decimal is farther from some of the keys--finger moves farther, I get impatient, and try to hit it too fast and get to the next key.  Just a guess, though.

I also can't seem to get the Enter key to cause any problems, like pressing and holding Enter, then pressing two, th en let off Enter.  I can even clear the stack, press 1 and hold it, press and hold Enter, let off 1, and press 2 and +.  Even if I never let off Enter, it shows 3.  That's pretty slick.  I wonder if a TI will do that, LOL.

I will try a lot harder to notice when I think a key didn't register to try and see a pattern.

I wonder if anybody over at www.hpmuseum.org has posted a thread on this.

Lit reviews must be boring if I stop doing that to experiment with my HP!!

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

More: I can press and hold 4 then 9, hit sqrt and it shows 7.

If I press and hold 3, ., and 2, the 2 doesn't register.  Some other combos do, however, and this is unlikely to actually happen during a calc.

Now I'm bored enough to continue searching through obscure journals...

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

haynewp,

It would be interesting to know what calculators folks who are having problems are migrating from.  Perhaps the key shape, travel distance, calculator slope, or something else is just a little different and causes errors.

I used a 48G before and I think a LOT of folks have used those for 10+ years.  Surely that would cause many subconscious habits and preferences to be well ingrained.  

From beating on mine, I'm pretty well convinced that the calculator does not miss any keystrokes regardless of speed, previous key not being let up, etc.  Perhaps other units are defective, though, although we seem to have a sample size of two good ones now.

10000e

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I came from using a 48sx for 13 years then a 49g for about a year. I need to get someone else to use mine and see if they have a problem with it. So it sounds like you decided the keystrokes you mentioned that you missed previously are from user error and not a problem with your calculator.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

"So it sounds like you decided the keystrokes you mentioned that you missed previously are from user error and not a problem with your calculator."

Yep, pretty much.

I just noticed an error.  I multiplied something by 55 and lost the second 5.  I simply didn't let up all the way.

I speculate that one has to let up on the key farther, before pressing it again, than is required on the 48.

LOL, they need a "short trigger reset" like some semi-auto handguns have.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Another thing that is bothering me is the stack limitation coming from the 48sx & 49g. Also, it does this duplication thing when the stack is full that I am not used to either.  

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I will just get used to it, I don't want to start sending them back and end with a refurbished one like what happened last time. It was all downhill from there.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I'm with you on the stack limit.  No clue why they cling to those old limitations.  I can't see how an infinite, or even large stack could do any damage to the older users.  I find it to be no big deal for most cases, just working from inside->out.  

I have one major problem with it, however.  Say I have a big multi-term equation, especially if there are nested radicals, etc. and I want to back-solve for one of the variables.  With my 48, I could back out almost any variable without re-writing the equation.  

I can't do this with my 35s because I can't visualize where the "inside" will be after it's rearranged.  I end up re-writing an equation every now and then.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

271828,

I've only used RPN calculators with the 4 level stack, I wonder if the infinite stack of the RPL machines would somehow trip me up.  I've been using RPN for so long now, it's ingrained into me.  A user difinable stack seems to make sense, maybe they will incorporate that feature into a possible HP35sii.  All in all, the 35s is a worthy calculator.  If they would just make a successor to the HP 42s.....

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Just got my 35s over the weekend. Two words: GET ONE!

Pictures don't do the 35s justice; it's really a good looking calculator. The plastic case is black, and the aluminum cover plate is a very dark brown, almost black. The lower half of the key pad, the enter and backspace keys and are black. The rest of the keys are a very dark grey. The color difference is so subtle it's hard to even notice. The blue and yellow functions stand out very clearly against the dark brown cover plate. The new zipping hard case is cool too. Much nicer than the cheesy looking slip case the 33s had.

HP definitely got the classic HP-high-quality look right on this one. It reminds me of the first time I saw a 32sII in the university bookstore. Sitting there next to comparable TI's, Sharps and Casios and at two to three times the price, something about the look of the HP justified the price.

The 35s reminds me of the 32sII. The key feel is very similar to my 48GX, though maybe slightly more clicking sound. Could be that my 48 is just worn out and has been 'clicked' out. All of the keys on the 35s are larger than the 48 keys. Once the word gets out about the 35s, I expect this calculator to put a real dent in the used HP calculator market.

I've said before that I like the 33s as a daily user, or maybe I should say liked. Quality-wise, the 35s is way better than the 33s, hands down, no question. The keys are softer and quieter than the 33s. The traditional keypad layout with the large enter key is very nice. The 35s is what the 33s should have been to begin with. The 33s got me through the PE, so I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for it, but the 35s is my new love.

The 35s carries over a few minor quirks of the 33s...but it's executed so beautifully, that those quirks don't really matter much. It would be nice to have a matte screen, more pixels for better digit quality and a larger decimal point, but that's all stuff I can live with.

There is one new aggrivating problem though. Really, really aggrivating! I like to have my display set to ALL rather than fixed, scientific or engineering notation. I don't think in E to some power and I don't like to see a bunch of place holder zeros. The problem, which I think someone has already mentioned, is that when you have a long answer (like sin25 = 0.422618261741E-1), the exponent is not displayed on the screen; you have to scroll right to see the exponent. This about drove me crazy when I first got the calculator and was playing around with it. I've decided that the next best thing is fixed notation with 4 decimal places, which is the most I'll use for most things. Inexcusable, but I love the 35s enough that I'll just have to live with it. Crap!

The plastic packaging they ship the 35s in is bullet proof. Mere scissors are not enough to get into the package. I recommend tin snips or a circular saw. Me, I was so excited to get my hands on my new little black box I risked life and limb and used a razor sharp hunting knife to hack away at the packaging. I'd like to meet the shoplifter who inspired that kind of elaborately secure packaging. Seems like lawsuit material to me.

 While everyone might have their little gripes about what HP should have done with it, considering that HP has the burden of trying to produce a scientific calculator that is all things to all people, I think they did a pretty good job. IMHO that the 35s represents HP best effort in many years.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I have been doing some experimenting with the missed key issue. It seems if I slow down I don't have a problem. Maybe like someone else was saying if you start the second key before fully releasing the first key it skips.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

haynewp, try this.

Start with 9.7847 on the stack.

Then compute .626(5)(2)/4.45.

Let me know if you get anything strange (like 30.626 or 6.882).  Of course, the answer should be 1.4067.

I missed this one a couple of times somehow and resorted to video recording the calc a bunch of times until it repeated a couple of times.  I can very clearly hear the click for the 2, but it didn't register on a couple of tries.  Without the 2 registering, the product ended up multiplied by the 9.7847 that was already on the stack.  

I watched very closely and the 2 keystroke didn't overlap with either the x or the divide.  

I can't seem to make it repeat, but it's a data point.  I am totally confused at this point as to the question of user error or calculator error.  I sure can't seem to make it not register on other than actual calcs.  Sure sounds like user error, but my video/audio recording doesn't seem to agree.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Clarification: when I typed "can't seem to make it repeat" I meant that if I just click 2 over and over, it always puts another 2 on there.  I ran through that little product probably about 10 times and was able to repeat the error 2-3 times.  I was going really fast, but I could clearly see and hear that the 2 should've registered.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

jdog, you have some DARN good eyes!  I had never noticed the key color difference.  Now looking VERY closely, I can barely see it.  I started wondering if you (or I) had the wrong calculator!

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Try slowing down. When I go fast I get all kinds of answers but when I slow down there isn't a problem. Looks like to me that will have to either have to slow down or go back to some other calculator.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

271828

I am getting the right answer for that calc, but I was missing (5)(20)=100 over and over this weekend. It was driving me crazy. The number "2" was not registering to the point that it was missing almost every other time and I was getting "(5)(0)=0", but using RPN entry of course.

I am mainly noticing I miss numbers when holding the calculator in both hands and using my left and right thumbs to enter in numbers. By placing on my desk and using one hand entry, I hardly ever miss a keystroke.  

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Hmmm.  I always use the calculator on the desktop with 2-3 of my fingers, not a thumb.

Maybe there's a pattern with the 2.  Other folks?

You might be right, Ron.  Slower and smoother ends up being faster in the end lots of time in life.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

27-

I always hold the calculator in my hands. I found a long time ago I can enter in numbers faster by using my left thumb to cover the first 2 columns of keys and my right to cover from the decimal point over. As soon as I hit "sin" with my left thumb I can hit "+" with my right thumb. I never had a problem with my old 48.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

I just got a HP-35s.  When I hit the clear key or the zero key the keys make a funny sound.  They appear to be very loose.

Has any one else had this problem?

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

My 35s keys have the typical soft click you expect from HP.

If your 0 key or clear key is making a noticably different sound than the other keys, I'd say there could be a problem, especially since they're right next to each other. Loose keys are also a bad sign. Sounds like a legitimate problem.

I did have a problem with my 33s with the 4 key missing key strokes. I called up HP service and eventually got a person to talk to. She sent out a 33s immediately and had me return the old one once I had received the new one. I had the new one in my hands in a few days. Can't ask for better service than that, except maybe better quality control to prevent such problems.

The 35s is HP's way of doing a Mulligan after the lukewarm to sour reception of the 33s. With the introduction of the 35s, I'd say HP calculators are on the verge of a comeback and as such, they're probably very anxious to avoid/correct any negative feedback on the calculator that represents this comeback. I'd give them a call, give them the chance to make it right.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

RAR, I agree with jdog1 and would send it back for another.

haynewp, I've been experimenting more over the last couple of days.  It seems that I can't ever make it miss if I go fast, but smooth--no herky-jerky "as fast as I can" keystrokes.  In reality, smooth is probably faster anyway, as it usually is with similar skills.  Leaning back toward these being from operator error.

I did see that some over at hpmuseum report some missed keystrokes, but it's really hard to know if they can really be sure it's not the "loose nut behind the keyboard."

Someone mentioned basically hacking the electronics in an attempt to fix a possible hardware problem, but I have no clue what they're talking about.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

same for me. I think I may have also hit the edge of the keys when going fast and they not registered a couple of times. I was messing around the other day and tried pressing down very, very slowly on one key to see how far I could make the key go down without registering. I think it was over half way on every key I tried on. Which made me think I may have hit some keys on the edge and they didn't go all the way down when a couple of times lately the calculation to go bad.

The gist is I am not really sure what is going on but I definitely have been missing keystrokes, but I can't get it to miss when purposely going fast when keeping the strokes complete and smooth. I think the odds are too low that 3(?) of us on this thread received faulty units, so I think it is an issue with the whole line-or user error and getting used to pressing numbers more smoothly if you want to look at it that way.

The stack thing bothers me just as much because I keep thinking that I may have went over the max allowed during a long equation calc and I can't trust the final answer it gives.  So I end up doing the calc over and writing down the intermediate calculation answers.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Just ordered one from NewEgg for $49.99.  Will see it in 3 days.

RE: HP 35s for you RPN engineers

Well, mine came and I unacket it.  Took more effort to get the darn thing out of the plastic pack than I expected.  First impressions:  Keys are bigger and softer than my 42s.  I think I can get used to them, though.  I miss the ability to press XEQ andhave my 6 favorite programs displayed on the bottom roe of the display.  I like some of the new functions assigned to buttons.  More buttons = more options without going to menus (good!).  It is a pain to have to type a program name than press Enter to run a program.  It's larger but lighter than my 42s - feels cheaper.  The larger display is nice.  If I can keep it in the case it may last longer.  Bummer about only using one characer for variable names - I got used to Dia for diameter, etc.  Now it has to be D.  I like the fractional display toggle key.  It looks much larger than the 42s but when actually compared it is only 1/8" wider and 3/8" taller.  We'll see how the next few weeks go...

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