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1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

(OP)
I have to be honest, I find chat speak to be one of the worst thing that has developed from the internet.

I cringe everytime someone asks: how are u doing? How much time is gained from not typing two letters?

I also appreciate that language is about communication, if I'm fully able to understand the intent of the communication then I appreciate it is doing its job. I'm not talking about the paragraph of misspelled words that I get emailed every couple months, but actually paring down the language for brevity and ease of typing and particularily texting.

Am I a dinosaur unable to move with the times (my 17 year old sister-in-law thinks so). Is 'chat speak' the wave of the future? Is there really anything wrong with someone asking for help on Eng-Tips using a common form (although relatively new) of written communication?

Example 1:
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=194967&page=1

Example 2:
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=195694&page=1

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

I don't even resort to that level when sending SMS messages on my 'phone.

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

Language is as she is spoke (or writ)...that said, I find chatspeak (chatwrite?) irritating too.  It makes the speaker look ignorant and immature.  That's the current cultural baggage that people of my background currently attach to that kind of writing.  (And in some of the "soft" fora here, people have pointed out to chatspeakers that they are not presenting themselves in the best light.)

As people of my background die off or lose influence, that assessment may change.  Already, business prose is nowhere near as flowery as it was 50 years ago.  I see people from non-English-speaking countries trying to do a nice formal job with their English, and it seems so...Victorian, I don't know.  And maybe to them, my somewhat informal style is shocking.

My email and posts are significantly less formal, much closer to my speaking patterns, than anything I write that's intended to go on a printed page.  Everything's on a continuum.

I haven't seen too much chatspeak in the particular fora I happen to frequent in Eng-Tips, but I see some of it in another professional forum I read.  Oddly, it's the non-native English speakers who seem most likely to do it.  I wonder if it's because most of their English practice comes from online chats.

Whether it's "wrong" or not depends on the norms.  Around here, most people don't do it, so it's certainly out of place, and to the poster's disadvantage since they're less likely to be taken seriously.


Hg, who took years to stop typing "ppl" instead of "people" after spending way too much time on the BITNET Relay

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

IDK, but IMHO Yes U R & Yes .  Jus think of all teh time u r savin by not typin out the werds or wurying bout spelin.

OMG GTR, TTYL!

:)

--
Erik
MO P.E.

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

It's annoying.

I'm on the upper limit of generation Y, or whatever you want to call it, and it still bugs the #$%$#@ out of me.

I don't like it in emails, online forum etc.

I can just about put up with it in text messages but A. I don't do them much any more and B. it's still a little annoying.

I'm less likely to respond to posts full of that @%$#@% than one in regular text.  (Some regular members may want to use this to their advantagewinky smile).

Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with and use Acronyms and abbreviations that are common in whatever context I'm writing/reading e.g CAD, FEA, FMEA, FMECA for this site.  Also I try to be tolerant of spelling mistakes & poor grammer on this site because English isn't everyones first language, We're Engineers not English Teachers (not so applicable in this particular forum) and I'm one of the worst offenders.

However, in my honest opinon (note not IMHOsmile) it's not very appropriate here but I'm not sure I could really justify that, especially given a couple of posts I've made which I've later come to wonder about the wisdom of so doing.

When using a full keyboard, which I assume most people do when posting here, there's little excuse for it, especially for relative youngsters, learn to touch type!

In fact, learning to type/taking a keyboard course should probably be compulsary to graduate university if not High School these days.  Probably wouldn't put an end to it though.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

ludikris

I think you just convinced me that the OP is right, in fact I think it should be banned on this sitewinky smile.

It took me several minutes to work out what the heck you were saying.  (Still not sure about GTR, no I don't care don't feel the need to explain)

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

(OP)
That's a star for ludikris. I also didn't get GTR.

At least, unless the post was serious...

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

I use it selectively, especially for longish phrases such as IMHO (In My Humble Opinion) or AFAIK (As Far As I Know). I'm also guilty of using BTW (for By The Way) which can be thought of as just lazy I suppose since it only saves 7 key strokes. In my defense though, I have arthritis in both hands and fat stubby fingers; typing has always been problematic for me. So I adopted a few of those cheats once I thought they would be more acceptable. But I agree, u for you is annoying and makes it difficult to read.

The worst to me though is the 1337 crap. For those who don't know, it's called "LEET" speak, short(?) for "Elite" and they substitute numbers with similar shapes as letters. 1 = l, 2 = Z, 3 = E, 5 = S, 6 = b, 7 = T, 9 = g and 0 = o. So in that above name, 1337 is supposed to look like lEET. Then of course they mix them up since there are only 8 numbers that work, making the already truncated sentences look ridiculous. Kids use it a lot. I hate that crap...

(BTW, GTR = Got To Run)

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

GTR=Got to run.
Sheesh. I'm over 40.

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

Do KidsTheseDays really still do l337?  I'd think with the focus on cellphones, anything involving other characters
(can't spell "l337 |-|4><0r" without 'em) would fall by the wayside.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

In reading this thread I realized that "chat speak" infringes on everyting we say and do,  even if only by the use of common acronyms and abbreviations(although "common" itself may need to be clarified).  

I also wondered why KENAT was opposed to the use of IMHO - then on reading further I saw the difficulty in using ONLY abbrivations commonly known to the READER (not the writer).   

1337???????? I didn't know how old I was.  I hadn't even seen or hea5rd the term befor this thread :)  [are smiley
faces also part of chat speak?)

LOL GTR ETC ETC ETC

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

5318008

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

selboob??

Y'all realize, yes, that the first round of eleet haqzors are in their 30s by now...

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

I'm guilty of using "u" and other similar abbreviations on SMS messages. The majority of these messages are between my girlfriend and I, so as long as we're both okay with it, no harm, no foul (IMHO :P).

But it's when people start using lazy speak for correspondence that my skin starts to crawl.

I used to be a teaching assistant for a first year class.. This was an email actually sent out to all the professors and TA's (I saved it for posterity):

Quote:

the last test cud very well screw up intl students, it definitely screwd me. if i fail this test which is very much possible thn i myt hav to stay bak for summer nd cant go bak home. so i think the profs shud consider tht before making exam questions. they shudn screw us like they did for 1st semester which apparently was the hardest exam i eva wrote in my life..., so profs pls go easy on us!!!

When one of the other TA's wrote back asking him to rephrase the question in english, the student actually filed a complaint saying that his request was discriminatory. If this guy made it through, he should be graduating in 2009. I shake my head every time I read that one.

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

I r 1337 hax0rs hear to steel UR megahurtz! Snapz L8 4 ltam8
1337 h4x0rz 53cr37 |\/!3371n6! We pwn j00!

......Ok, that's enough, It took my entire lunch period to type that out.  I'm part of GenY and it bugs the everliving crud out of me to see that drivel all over.

In personal emails I'll use AFAIK, IMHO, and some of the more common ones, but only with friends who know what it means.  Family blogs, emails, on webpages, and CERTAINLY at work, I use complete, well punctuated sentences, as best as I know how.


Heck, I hate when people put Xmas.

--
Erik
MO P.E.

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

5318008, and almost as amusingly (at least to pubescent school boys in the late 80's) 55378008 or even 58008.

For those of you missing it, these pre date text messaging.

Type them into your calculator, turn it upside down, imagine you’re about 10 (and if necessary male) and snigger with glee.

I’m not yet 30 and don’t use that drivel (text speak) except very occasionally in text messages, which now I’ve grown up I don’t send as much.

justkeepgiviner, while I doubt it I hope that student gets failed, or at least has the error of his ways made clear to him.  Asking for easier exams so he can go home in the holidays, and using text speak in said request should be grounds for expulsion IMHO winky smile, whether he’s pink, brown, black, purple polka dots, from deepest darkest Peru (Paddington Bear reference, not racism) or what ever.  Did the TA get in any trouble?

L8er

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

Oh, so I wasn't as far off as I thought...boy, I thought 71077345 was impressive in 1974.  (The 4 in this font doesn't work for that though)

Say, does anyone (I guess baby boomer or older) remember the whole joke/story that went with 71077345?  It involved adding numbers or some other such arithmetic and then that was the punchline.  Since I was still in nursery school when I saw someone doing it, I didn't really process whatever geopolitical humor was going on there at the time.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

I too remember a joke existing but not the detail.  And this was late 80s.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

ROTFL

=====================================
Eng-tips forums: The best place on the web for engineering discussions.

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

Short hand writing have been around for a long time. Pitman anyone?

So, if chat speak is taken to be a form of short hand, then it is what it is.

Not everybody knew or understood Pitman (or the other systems) back in the day, why would it be expected of chat speak now?

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

Shorthand was never intended for public consumption.  Shorthand was how someone wrote to communicate with oneself, and then transcribed it into regular English for presentation to others.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

Pitman shorthand was developed for a specific purpose; to allow a person to make rapid notes for transcription into normal and legible English at a later time. It was not intended for general use, especially when and where it is very obviously not used ... such as in these fora.

Chat/1337/IM speak isn't just shorthand, it's an attempt to show that they belong to the "club/gang/group/tribe". Trouble is, it's become so ingrained into some users and they believe it to be acceptable for general use. They just don't know any better.

cheers

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

hmm...  I'd never heard that one.  I remember one ending in 35007 and another to do with someone who was 55378008.

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

We used to enter in our HP's:

57739 57734 40

which, upside down was "Oh hells bells".

Small things amused small minds back then.

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

Occasionally I'll red flag this nonsense, sometimes I'll ask the poster not to do it, but always I refuse to provide a technical answer or participate in a subsequent conversation.  

People that get no substantive response to their questions will either rephrase them or leave and not come back.  I don't have a problem with either outcome.

David (born towards the end of the baby boom)

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

Hgtx, 71077345 is my employer and I can assure you they are very sensitive about trade mark infringement. You should be careful as you may have an army of lawyers with cease and desist orders at you door... winky smile





"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?" Oddball, "Kelly's Heros" 1970

Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.
 

 
 

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

Just for clarity, chatspeak does not include 1337.  Chatspeak come out of nessecity when typing on IM (Gen X contribution), and later then on text messaging (Gen Y contribution)...nothing to do with wanting to belong.  However, 1337 came out of a small number of kids that wanted to hide their messages in plan view.  It's a modern hightech equavilent of the grammar school/middle school schoolyard talk...kids just wanting to make their language their own.

1337 is only annoying because it is outdated and those who tend to use it tend to believe they are being clever.  

IMHO, chatspeak on the other hand, is already having a tremendous influence on English and other languages.  It doesn't represent the future per se, but it is already a part of it.

In addition to chatspeak, there is two forms of outdated pagercode (one based around a common 3 digit number representing a particular statement, and one that is based on number for letter replacement, similar to but much friendlier than 1337).  Anyone here page their g/f with "143" or "831" back in the day?  C'mon, raise your hand!  hehe  

I like to pull out the old codes once in awhile cuz u can still keep messages sub rosa to the majority of other people.  No real reason that should annoy others, unless of course they are using 1337. :)



Matt
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
sw.fcsuper.com
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

I, too cringe, when I see chat speak - I do a bit of it on sms to my daughter (age 15) but can't bring myself to do it to others.  I keep telling her, when she writes emails that the pronoun I is capital and not ' i '.  In the geotechnically oriented forums we do bring this out and admonish those using it in their posts.  How you write shows a lot about how you percieve yourself and how much pride you have in what you are saying/thinking.  (of course, we let typos go).  Cheers
  By the way - what is lol ?  My daughter says it is "laugh out loud" but I always thought it was "lots of love." ???

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

google lol

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

Tomfh - I know that the modern version is laugh out loud - I guess I was just pointing out that it has supplanted the original (dinosauric) version of lots of love (my era - I guess the 60s was more about love than laughing! unless your lottery number was over 150.).  As is usual with acronymic slang, misuse can lead to situations that can only be described as fubar.  Cheers.

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

" How you write shows a lot about how you percieve yourself and how much pride you have in what you are saying/thinking. "

This is true to a point.  Our language is constantly changing.  Some terms that in the past may have been considered improper are now the prefered method of speak.  You don't hear "I give my children a ride to school", but rather "I dropped the kids off at school" is more common, and if anyone said the first phrase, others would note that as a bit odd.

Matt
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
sw.fcsuper.com
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

fcsuper, seeing as this is the grammar forum.

Wouldn't "I gave my children a ride to school" be equivalent to "I dropped the kids off at school"?  

I do hear the former phrasing about as often as the latter.  Guess once again I'm old before my time.

Anyway, to summarize my opinion as regards the OP,  Chat speak is not appropriate for Eng Tips.

After all these are:

Quote:

INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

I don't find it professional, or especially intelligent, to use Chat Speak in this context.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

Just for perspective, I'm in my mid 30's.  You, KENAT?

Matt
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
sw.fcsuper.com
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

BTW, my point was that terms like "the kids" and split infinitives like "dropped...off" used to be considered improper.  In many cases, they might now be considered the prefered.

Matt
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
sw.fcsuper.com
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

Not quite yet 30, like I said probably old before my time.

Although being a Brit maybe it's the whole cultural shebang.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

I had to think about it for a while and try a few numbers before it came back, but here's one of the calculator key jokes:

Dolly Parton was a size 69 (key in 69) and her doctor said this was too, too, too big (key in 222).  He gave her 51 pills (key in 51) to take 8 times a day (multiply the 6922251 by 8) and that left her... and turn the calculator upside down and press equals (or times for us RPN folks).

I get chastised in non-professional forums at times because I make it a point to use good grammar and punctuation.  I, too, think "chatspeak" isn't viewed favorably in professional settings, however.

I had problems with pain in my hands from typing since I took the class in high school [Aside - I was the only male in my typing class - it was still considered a girly class, but I saw the computer writing on the wall].  I found out about a keyboard layout that supposedly helped with this (from the author of ThisIsTrue.com).  It's called the Dvorak layout and it has helped me tremendously.  I went from 40wpm to 60, reduced my errors, and I can type page after page without tiring.  It took about 6 months for me to make the switch about 10 years ago, and I've never looked back.



If you "heard" it on the internet, it's guilty until proven innocent. - DCS

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

All of this just remindes me back in the day where CB was the thing to do and had it's own lingo...what's your 20...smokey in the bushes...breaker 19 give me a radio check...watch out for the gatores in the road...what yard stick are ya at...

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

fcsuper:

If you're gonna pick grammatical nits, I should point out that "dropped...off" ain't no split infinitive.  [Right here is me refraining from going on a big rant about the ill-foundedness of the prohibition against split infinitives.]  It's a phrasal verb, and not only is it allowed to be split, but in some cases splitting is required--you can say, "I dropped them off," but you can't say, "I dropped off them."

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

Unless you were making a human pyramid, in which case it's likely you would have dropped off themwinky smile

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

During my college internship we discussed the English language.  We came up with the follow sentence, which according to all sources is perfectly acceptable but makes you sound like a grammatical idiot.

Irregardless, I ain't unloosening that bolt myself.



--
Erik
MO P.E.

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

Why weren't there any sources to point out that "irrespective" is a word, and "regardless" is a very similar word, but "irregardless" is not a word at all?

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

I suppose that was part of the joak.  A little slow here.

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

Irregardless is a perfectly cromulent word.

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

Use of the word irregardless embiggens us all. (nod to Tomfh hehe)

Matt
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
sw.fcsuper.com
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

A note about "Xmas"...  XP (Chi Rho) is an ancient Greek abbreviation for Christ, being the first two letters of the title.  In many churches you'll see a symbol of a very tall, narrow "P" on top of a an "X".  Same thing.  So Xmas is a legitimate abbreviation for Christmas.

Which reminds me of Stan Freberg's "Green Chri$tma$" routine  "...As sure as there's an X in Christmas, you can be sure those are Tiny Tim Chestnuts roasting..."  If you've never hear anything by Freberg, check it out.  Nearly 50 years old but still good.

RE: 1337 or Chat speak on Eng-Tips

* jimkirk on the Xmas.

Or then again is that snobbery.

Latin abbreviations are OK while modern ones aren't?

QED etc seem perfectly reasonable to use in a proffesional setting, text speak perhaps not so much.

(I was going to put something smart with Verily, forsooth and twixt here but it's just not coming)

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

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