Pursue Disciplinary Action?
Pursue Disciplinary Action?
(OP)
An engineer here arbitrarily downloaded an updated version of our main CAD software. In doing so he converted at least one major assembly to the new version so others were unable to open it.
We’re holding off going to the newer version because we have concerns over the impact on performance on some older machines, it’s not just that we’re dragging our feet etc.
We had a file back up from a few days ago however, we did lose some work.
I’ve had minor issues with this engineer before but with a lot of tongue biting have normally got through it.
I don’t see any ethical issue with my pushing for disciplinary action against him, may make me unpopular/target for next layoffs but not unethical.
Does anyone here see an ethics issue with it?
I ask because I posted before about someone bringing up violations of procedures/policies/laws to get rid of someone that was making their life hell and several posters thought is was weaseley/shrew like etc.
Now in this case my main reason isn’t my personal feelings for the person but what he did in this particular incident, but I’d be lying if I said it wasn’t in the back of my mind.
What do you reckon?
We’re holding off going to the newer version because we have concerns over the impact on performance on some older machines, it’s not just that we’re dragging our feet etc.
We had a file back up from a few days ago however, we did lose some work.
I’ve had minor issues with this engineer before but with a lot of tongue biting have normally got through it.
I don’t see any ethical issue with my pushing for disciplinary action against him, may make me unpopular/target for next layoffs but not unethical.
Does anyone here see an ethics issue with it?
I ask because I posted before about someone bringing up violations of procedures/policies/laws to get rid of someone that was making their life hell and several posters thought is was weaseley/shrew like etc.
Now in this case my main reason isn’t my personal feelings for the person but what he did in this particular incident, but I’d be lying if I said it wasn’t in the back of my mind.
What do you reckon?
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...





RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
So, I'm not expecting him to get fired over this, but a good wrist slapping is I believe appropriate.
Of course he tried explaining it away to IT and a colleague as he was just trying it out and thought he'd backed up data.
I don't buy it, and apparantly the IT guy isn't convinced, said this particular engineer has done this kind of thing before to force a version upgrade.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
I realize that your situation if quite different, but post this just to show that, without proper control, these things can and do happen. Don't shoot the guy just yet, but do make it obvious that this should not have happened.
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
Unfortunately our in work stuff isn't really secure and it was here he screwed it up.
We've also had previous conversations with him that we want to change version but have our reasons for not doing so imediately. We also told him we plan carrying out performance testing etc. So it's not like he didn't know what was going on.
But I appreciate you playing devils advocate ewh, that's part of what I was looking for.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
This time it's cost the company quite a few man hours, on a high priority project (if it fails this part of the company could go belly up) that's already behind schedule.
At what point to draw the line and say something needs to be done, but this is starting to sound more like "overcoming obstacles getting my work done" than ethics
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
2) Make him sign a copy
That's closed the stable door. That is not an unusual policy by the way.
3) Ask him how he proposes to rectify the situation.
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
3) Conveniently he was out today so correcting the situation fell mainly on a colleague of mine plus IT since we needed it for ECO tomorrow.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
On closing them, I was presented with a dialog asking me if I wished to update them, and I answered 'no'.
... But when I opened some _other_ files, I got an information box telling me that the files that I thought I had already closed and left unmolested ... were being updated. I was given no opportunity to stop, abort, or circumvent that process.
It _seems_like_ the "no, don't update" response produced a _deferred_ and erroneous update, that somehow got triggered after further unrelated activity. I know zip about SolidWorks; maybe that's normal, maybe not. It doesn't _seem_ like a normal behavior.
I don't yet know if any damage was done by what is potentially a very nasty bu.... er, design feature.
It's not an auspicious start to my new job. It could happen to anyone.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
I agree mistakes get made, I've made plenty.
However, when you go out of your way to make the mistake happen, and it has a significant impact, isn't there some accountability?
This guy was here long before me, and until I turned up was probably the expert CAD user. Read into that what you will.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
BTW, congrats on the new job.
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
Since then, I've answered 'okay' to some anonymous demands to 'update' .... _something_. I have no idea what application was making the request, or what it did in response. It seemed to be the only way to make it stop nagging me. I wouldn't call that 'going out of my way'.
The way I see it, if I can't _read_ a file using a newer version of the software than that which produced it without unintentionally modifying the file, I'd call that a serious programming error, and I'd hold Solidworks accountable. I hope my boss sees it that way...
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
In your case I think it would be unfair to hold you accountable.
For our guy, ...
Congrats on the new job by the way.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
If it can be recovered and the person is worth saving, first offense and so on, definite punishment but probably not fired. Otherwise = canned.
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
Clicking "Yes" just to get rid of nag screens without understanding what you are agreeing to could result in the same problem that KENATs engineer caused. I'm sorry, but IMO the only difference would be negligence (or maybe lack of due diligence) versus malicious intent.
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
>File|Open|A.sldxx
>Opening A.sldxx
>File|Close
>Do you want to update A.sldxx?
No.
>Closing A.sldxx
>File|Open|B.sldxx
>Opening B.sldxx
>File|Close
>Do you want to update B.sldxx?
No.
>Closing B.sldxx
>Updating A.sldxx <<<< Yikes!
... and so on.
I'm a little fuzzy on the details, but the message about updating a file that I thought had already been safely closed came at a time that made no sense whatsoever, but the behavior was consistent.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
Does your company use ISO9000/9001 as a base for controlling its internal procedures? That might help, although in a full application it might hinder as well.
The company I work in has 'corporate loads' for its PC and workstation software setups and no machine will run executable files without the correct administration rights being used. That might stop some of the fooling around.
Bill
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
I consider that unethical.
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
The "best" scenario I could perceive would be to have for the boss, if requested or needed, documentation as to how much this error cost the company in terms of man-hours to fix, subsequent impact on project schedule etc. If you were part of the group that restored the error, this could be captured in a report and submitted to the boss. Now the boss has documentation to support disciplinary action decisions. The individual does not have to be named in the report, simply provide a description of the error cause, steps taken to fix, and subsequent costs in doing so.
Regards,
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
Peter Stockhausen
Pollak Switching Products
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
My new employer (3 months now) has things pretty open but they will not hesitate to wipe a computer and re-image it if something has been installed that causes problems.
A software upgrade is the responsibility of IT and not the user. At they very least there should be an inquiry sent to IT when something wants to upgrade itself. A good example is Acrobat Reader.
My 2 1/2 cents.
EJL
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
WGJ, no 9001, my boss was explicitly told not to even consider taking us that route. I've worked 9001 before though so understand what you mean.
Tomfh you must have the patience/virtue of a saint.
I'm trying hard to pull my personal feelings out of it, actually I've been away on business with this guy and got on fine as long as we steered away from the one or two contentious work related issues.
However, when I worked till 12:00 last night, mainly as a result of the delays/disruption this caused and may have to miss a meeting this morning to catch up more, which is apparantly upsetting my boss, then I'm finding it difficult.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
I work in a right to work state and you can be fired by the boss for no reason whatever.
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
I'm also missing a big meeting meeting about introducing PDM/PLM this morning on the basis I need to get something finished for this afternoon and I lost a lot of time yesterday. Hopefully this will bring attention to the fact I'm not making it up exagerating.
That said my boss isn't optimistic anything is going to get done to/about the guy/situation (I know I'm shocked) so I guess I'll have to go back to biting my tongue.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
Oh well, never mind.
Actually, there are times when I wish I could be a complete F***up then I would have no worries and could look forward to a place on the board. As it is, half ****d F***ups and genuine errors don't do it.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
-As others suggested, put money in your claims. How much did this cost in $$? Today everybody will remember that you stayed until 12.00 to clean his mess. If you are sucessfull in solving this, in 3 months time nobody will remember. Say that his error cost in direct cost XUSD and in indirect costs YUSD(delays, complaints from clients, etc.)will have more impact.
-Change you IT policy saying taht any download even for demo/testing purposes will have to be formally approved by IT. The absence to get this approval will lead to a disciplinary action;
-Cut/restrict his access to internet for a couple of months, if feasible, for him to suffer a bit;
-Distribute him one of the old PCs. Like that if he ever downloads anything then he will not be able to use it anyway.
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
Medicine Eng, thanks for the suggestions, it's not gonna happen but I like the way you think
Tomfh/civil, I fear he already started the war long ago but I've repeatedly done my best to minimize it/get along hence the tongue biting.
This time I really feel the effect is significant but I guess management don't feel the same way so I'm not going to push it any further.
However, after my managers concerns about me working too hard/too many hours/burning out I sure won't be cleaning up the mess next time, or if I do I guess my projects will have to slip.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
By the way, you don't have to like the guy if he is an arrogant jerk. That may have something to do with why you don't like him. However you do have to work with him. It is not your problem to fix (I assume, so don't fix it). Likewise, If he does screw up, somebody needs to make a choice between having you fix his project or finishing your own. As long as you are willing to fix his problems on your own time, the company's problem is minimized. Don't make their problem your problem.
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
Peter Stockhausen
Pollak Switching Products
RE: Pursue Disciplinary Action?
It was one of those situations where missing my deadline, which was affected by his actions, would have caused more grief than my fixing the problem, especially as he was out the day it happened and my colleague who was helping fix it went home sick.
However, in future, stuff it. If it goes south again I'll make it clear to my manager what the situation is and let him explicitly make the decision.
The time will be charged to the project, though they don't track it that close.
Anyway it's now at the point where my saying or doing anymore will just make my life difficult so like it or not I'm dropping it. Another reason not to stay at my current employer though.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...