Composites and Unsrpung weight
Composites and Unsrpung weight
(OP)
This is a fairly general question that I would really appreciate some feedback on.
The automotive industry is inundated with carbon/composite parts (mostly glass with carbon over for looks) to give that real performance feel and look. Why is there little demand for actual suspension structure upgrades that could not only reduce unsprung weight but improve performance in more than just looks. Suspension components (struts, hubs, tie-rods, a-arms) are simple in design and easy to upgrade or even supply as high end OEM.
Has anyone here come across anything in this arena yet? I would love to get into this segment with anyone interested. I definitely see a market for this stuff.
The automotive industry is inundated with carbon/composite parts (mostly glass with carbon over for looks) to give that real performance feel and look. Why is there little demand for actual suspension structure upgrades that could not only reduce unsprung weight but improve performance in more than just looks. Suspension components (struts, hubs, tie-rods, a-arms) are simple in design and easy to upgrade or even supply as high end OEM.
Has anyone here come across anything in this arena yet? I would love to get into this segment with anyone interested. I definitely see a market for this stuff.





RE: Composites and Unsrpung weight
I see, at least in the present time frame, an extremely complicated route to DOT approval for any such venture due in part to the rough and tumble applications of street vehicles. As to performance/race applications...Considering the presumed weight advantage is mostly a myth as it relates to production based race cars and all the formula types already have such parts...
There is also the cost factor, the 800 lb. $ in the corner! Cost would certainly limit your market, not saying that such a limited market might still be there. I see the production costs as only the 'tip of the iceberg'!
Rod
RE: Composites and Unsrpung weight
Next question...
RE: Composites and Unsrpung weight
I assumed that we would all understand R&D is a large part of any new idea. I'm sure many people have been burned by "crazy" ideas such as this throughout the years in the automotive industry like that crazy aluminum stuff that dominates all cast parts and pump assemblies and body panels and heating cooling in the industry and those "weird" vinyls and plastics that line all cars in the industry and have made them safer, lighter and more comfortable. I could go on.
The point is: The data is there. Tons of it. Aerospace frames, industrial structures, chemical resistance ability, shock resistance, vibration control capability, acoustic absorption; the list goes on.
Nobody wanted airbags in cars when they were introduced either; oh the lawsuits, oh the burns on unsuspecting drivers, oh the horror of a misfire.
Now find a car without one.
People want mileage, performance and safety. I'd say people do care a lot about the 'plastic' parts.
RE: Composites and Unsrpung weight
I think Aramid Fibre pulp is used quite a bit in gaskets and brake pads.
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RE: Composites and Unsrpung weight
drive the car into a 5 inch kerb at 30 mph
repeat three times
Now drive it back to the workshop, under control.
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: Composites and Unsrpung weight
Any one of those pretty much rules out composite materials.
RE: Composites and Unsrpung weight
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RE: Composites and Unsrpung weight
Their definition of shock test is likely a bit more severe than a curb strike, but............
RE: Composites and Unsrpung weight
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RE: Composites and Unsrpung weight
For a racing car then this criteria could be relaxed a little - but even at F1 levels of research and development some of those cool black or yellow and black suspension arms have steel 'cores'. Naming no names...
Bear in mind that for racing cars the advantage of being able to jump kerbs with confidence far outweighs the hard to quantify advantage of a lower unsprung mass.
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: Composites and Unsrpung weight
RE: Composites and Unsrpung weight
I cannot imagine a suspension member where both compression and tension load bearing is not required.
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RE: Composites and Unsrpung weight
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Composites and Unsrpung weight
Regards
eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
RE: Composites and Unsrpung weight
The test is a rough and ready approximation to real world failures. If a significant number of customers suddenly started failing tension struts by buckling them, we'd investigate why and introduce another test to cover it. That's how these tests are created - and why even the absurd ones are still used.
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: Composites and Unsrpung weight
Well, my company works into suspension parts for the major european OEMs, and, actually, some of our oldest families of products, the link rods, have a composite/plastic/hybrid version.Mainly, french car manufacturers have a taste for them.
They are not A security parts, but they are plastic, nevertheless. They have advantages from the manufacturing point of view (no multiple step forming/processing required, no welding, etc...), but from the functional as well. Noise reduction, as an example, which is a pain in the ass for the metallic ones. They work both compression and extension, and the plastic seems to have a good fatigue behaviour, specially in the unions, where the metallic ones have weldings.
But apart from this simple linking parts, where plastic works, I see further use of composites very complicated, as the majority of the parts suffer not only tension or compression, but torsion as well, and most of them require thin walls or small sections. I can picture that the only future could be specifically developed composites with hard and ductile fibres orientated specifically and a matrix that could work nicely at both compression and extension.
RE: Composites and Unsrpung weight
That's not a phrase that I've come across, how do you define that?
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: Composites and Unsrpung weight
I'm saying it without checking it, but I think it is a classification derived from the Renault Institute, and says something like "A" security parts are the ones whose breakage implies that the vehicle has to stop, or implies a risk that the driving could be seriously affected.
RE: Composites and Unsrpung weight