×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

Directional Boring under canal/railroad

Directional Boring under canal/railroad

Directional Boring under canal/railroad

(OP)
I have a client asking me to stamp a drawing for a directional bore underneath a railroad and a 50' wide x 10' deep canal which is not concrete lined.  The boring company will be pulling a 10" dia. steel casing through and then a 4" pvc conduit inside of it.  The bore would be 10' below the bottom of the canal; thus, 20' below the railroad.  

Any suggestions?  I'm concerned about water intrusion and possibly the pressure from the railroad.  What are the standard procedures for this type of job?  

Thanks.

RE: Directional Boring under canal/railroad

See if the railroad has specifications for this kind of application - I know CSX has a 40+ page document concerning utility crossings under the tracks.  They are very specific about pipe wall thicknesses, installation methods, etc.  Unless you extend your casing pipe above the water table on each end and then seal it well, water will likely get in there and accumulate.  It is a judgement call based on whether or not water in the casing pipe is a bad thing.  

RE: Directional Boring under canal/railroad


The Norfolk Southern document looks pretty good but railroad crossings should always be reviewed by the particular RR involved for their approval prior to stamping your client's drawing. For standard procedures you should refer to Practical Guide to Railway Engineering published by AREMA (The American Railway Engineering and Maintenance-of-Way Association)


http://www.arema.org/eseries/source/Orders/index.cfm?section=unknown&task=3&CATEGORY=OTP&PRODUCT_TYPE=SALES&SKU=PRAC%5FGUIDE%5FRWY&DESCRIPTION=&FindSpec=&CFTOKEN=97149804&continue=1&SEARCH_TYPE=

RE: Directional Boring under canal/railroad

Do you mean a thrust bored cased pipeline, or that the pipelines will be directionally drilled and pulled through the hole (without any casing)?

If they are not cased, there is nowhere for any ingressed water to go.  If cased, the casing will normally have vents for water removal or for filling the casing with paraffin or some other water displacing compound.

There doesn't appear to be any danger that is evident from your description so far.  20 feet below the railway and 10 feet below the canal should be more than adequate for any loading condition, if the pipeline is directionally drilled and pulled through or if it is a thrust bored cased crossing.

As was already stated above, the railroad will require their approval (as will probably also the canal owner) and it will be beneficial to you to have both of their approved drawings in your hand before you stamp it just to be sure that everybody's requirements are squared up beforehand and that there will be no confusion as to who approved what and when later on.

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com

RE: Directional Boring under canal/railroad

As BigInch pointed out, loadings will not be an issue.  

The standard installation procedures will be quite different depending on if it is a directional drill or a horizontal thrust bore.

If you need more information on the actual installation procedures, advise as to which of the 2 methods it is and there is plenty of informaiton available.

Greg Lamberson, BS, MBA
Consultant - Upstream Energy
Website: www.oil-gas-consulting.com

RE: Directional Boring under canal/railroad

You may have water breakthrough during the directional drilling and prior to insertion of the casing.

You may be better off pushing the casing through rather than directional drilling. You won't have to worry about the water breakthrough.

You probably need a bigger casing than 12" too. I think the rule of thumb is 6" larger on each side of the pipe.

RE: Directional Boring under canal/railroad

bimr

It depends on the length of the bore.  If it is short, then thrust boring will be a better option, if it is a longer bore, then ditrectional is the way to go.

Roads are not typically cased anymore due to the horrendous problems they cause, but with a pvc carrier pipe, casing is fine.  Rule of thumb back in the casing heh-day was 4" larger, i.e. with a 4" carrier, 8" casing would be used.  But that again will be dependent on the length. It's hard to control 8" or 10" bore pipe much over 60'-90', if it's a thrust bore and over 80' long, I would go with a 12" casing.

The design of crossings (road or railroad) need to comply with 49 CFR Part 192.111.

Greg Lamberson, BS, MBA
Consultant - Upstream Energy
Website: www.oil-gas-consulting.com

RE: Directional Boring under canal/railroad

Duh......forgot the obvioous one.

Greg Lamberson, BS, MBA
Consultant - Upstream Energy
Website: www.oil-gas-consulting.com

RE: Directional Boring under canal/railroad

Oh well, looks like its a water pipe anyway... so might not be interested in APIs, or the CFRs for that matter.  smile

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com

RE: Directional Boring under canal/railroad

(OP)
Actually, the boring is for an electrical run.  The wires will be in a 4" PVC conduit.  

RE: Directional Boring under canal/railroad

(OP)
To everyone who's already replied to this: thank you very much.  You've all given me a lot of useful leads.  

RE: Directional Boring under canal/railroad

Directional drill a 4" HDPE line through and use it. They put fiber-optic lines in these all over the US

Richard A. Cornelius, P.E.
WWW.amlinereast.com

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources