×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai
2

Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

(OP)
Structural fellows,

You may have heard the news of rotating skyscraper in Dubai, the world first dynamic architecture. See from the link:

http://www.dynamicarchitecture.net/

What do you think? What would be the challenge in stucture design?

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

Does anyone feel sorry for the structural engineer on that one?

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

This is a job for a mechanical engineer!

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

(OP)
Does this mean that structural engineers will become mechanical engineers or will be replaced by mechanical engineers?

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

Could the wheel be the 'world's first dynamic structure' ?
Why does Dubai need such a structure ?

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

Why does any place need a structure like that???

Seems they found an architect with as big an ego as their pocketbooks.

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

easy 3-step job.

1. buy existing skyscraper
2. add alcohol
3. repeat step 2.

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

The projected plans are amazing, but there are few buildings that would out-do the Burj El Arab(?) Hotel there that was opened a few years ago. The hotel is the only 7-star (not just 5-star) in the world. I was lucky enough to get a personal tour without paying the rediculous amount ($50?) to walk inside.

The rotating building poses unique problems that will not be experienced except in some seimic solutions.

If you do work there, you better be ready for a fast track, irregular work and ability to respond to problems and changes quickly.

The ability to solve problems seems to overshadow the cost IF the scedule is not compromised. Pride is important and will be paid for.

The residential development off shore is truely amazing.

If you have a chance, take a look at the timeline of construction of Dubai for the past 5 or 10 years. There is a slide show that I will try to find. I have the PPT presentation that I can post once I find out how to.

Dick

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

I would think that a structural engineer would design the lift shaft/spine and the moving parts would be designed by a mechanical engineer.

I expect that the residents will get seasick every time there is a big wind due to the lateral translation and rotation combined.

This will be like designing a new type of jetplane but without the same amount of lead time. I wouldnt touch it with a 10'(3.05m) pole.

csd

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

This is simple... just use a bunch of hoverboard pads like they did in Back to the Future II, and "Rosie" from the Jetsons could clean the apartments too! :)

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

I am not sure about firsts.  I recall having dinner in Cincinnati in 1986 at the Top of the Crown (I think that was the name) where the whole resturant rotated like once every 15 or 20 minutes or something.

Don Phillips
http://worthingtonengineering.com

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

Don,

there are a number like that throughout the world, I think the first is that the whole building moves.

csd

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

i've eaten at a one too.  Also on the top...

Irwin P. Fletcher LLC has got the design contract for the Dubai tower. From what I understand, the design will heavily rely on ball bearings.

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

A guy in New Jersey designed a house so that his
studio was always in the sun during the day and then
returned to its morning positon overnight.
This was a ball bearing design.  I would expect that
a large building would require a roller bearing and
possibly a three roller type or a combined ball/roller
type bearing. Fancy plumbing arrangement as you can
guess.  

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

My concept would have been a conical structure like a wedding cake with rotation at second level only. All the upper floors would have the rotating view.

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

Seems like one of those 'we did it to see if we could.' What is the utility of this design (that is, what additional benefit over a non rotating building is there). Such a design derives from the same 'logic' that causes a grown but perhaps intoxicated man to scale an 1000ft telecommunications tower and realize when he sobers up that it's a long way down from the top (happened in St. Louis, Missouri recently)--he did it because he wanted to see if it could be done. The man got down by sliding down one of the guide wires, burning his hands and arms I think in the process since he didn't have gloves.

It will be interesting to see if the building is actually built.

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

If it is built, it will be interesting to see if anyone lives in it!

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

architectural garbage.

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

Looks like they anticipate having each floor individually controlled.  So no more pretty spiral, just a mess like the figure on the right.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

My wife gets dizzy sitting on a porch swing.  How many people in this building will need barf bags at their desks I wonder?

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

(OP)
It is not very fast. A single rotation would take around 90 minutes, as per the architect.

How plumbing works (and drainage) is something I wonder, also the calculation of seismic load.

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

For the construction of the original World Trade Center buildings (WTC 1 & WTC 2 = 1400 ft +/-), there was concern about the swayying of the building, and what kind of design criteria they should have.

Thus, psychological studies were conducted at the University of Washington to determine the effects of motion on people's state of mind.  The test consisted of people coming to a "doctor's office" for what they thought was a free medical check-up.  However, the "MD" was actually a PsyD, Psychologist, and the "office" was on a shake-table.. or sway-table as it were.  The sways began shortly into the "check-up", and got progressively larger.
The Psychologist documented, among other things, the time (a) when the subject showed a physical reaction (as small as a shift of the eyes), (b) when the subject showed signs of real disturbance, (c) when the subject voiced their concerns to the PsyD, and (d) when the subject ran out of the room.
Awesome.

The Twirling Tower folks probably did a similar study for tall building, plus a study of other building with rotatin resturants and what not.   The building sounds like a pretty good idea to me.  And if a few floors somehow stop moving, at least it's not like a draw bridge that got stuck in an upright position.

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

let me armchair engineer this one,

utilities-
each unit has a rechargable power cell that connects in service position for your household electricity and mechanical not including the turning of the unit.

each unit has a septic tank that connects to the main structure and flushes in service position.

each unit has a water tank that refills in service position.

operations-
rotation and service position cycle controlled by maintenance, but they take requests.

i'll take my fees in the form of barrels of light crude, thank you.

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

I wonder if some of the electrical works similar to a steering wheel horn connection. Ever remove and older vehicles steering wheel? There is a round plate on the back of the wheel and there are metal contacts on the turn signal harness that run in the grooves of the round plate, providing constant electricity when the wheel is turned in order to honk the horn. Not sure about the plumbing, but i'm sure something similar could be made with a two piece circular track pipe. Sealing the top and bottom half of the pipes would be tricky though. Just my armchair engineering LOL

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

The design of emergency stair exits will tax the ingenuity of the designer. I opine that it is not possible to design and construct this building with all the features of a modern building.

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

Yeah the emergency stairs would be interesting! From the rotating houses that i've seen on shows, they all had elevators and (obviously) the elevators could not operate until the floor had aligned properly with the lower floor. For a skyscraper and a fire, people would probably burn to death if the building takes a half hour to rotate 360°

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

Seems to me the jet engine companies long ago figured out the plumbing issue with respect to rotating machinery--fan blades are all cooled from the inside with some kind of fluid. How does the cooling fluid from a non rotating plenum get into the blade, which is rotating up to 10,000 revolutions per minute?

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

Structural engineers speculating on mechanical and electrical systems for a one of a kind (today)building?

I suspect that there has been some thought given those systems and engineers are already designing.

The question is how would you handle a structural system compatible with the rotational requirement (a given) and work with the mechanical systems. Electrical should not be much of a problem since has been done before.

The owners and developers in that part of the world want the bigest and the best and recognize that the engineering cost is not a barrier. The biggest problem may be getting enough of the skilled tradespeople. There will probably be a 50 to 100% cost over-run, but it may have been budgeted already.

RE: Rotating Skyscraper in Dubai

"Seems to me the jet engine companies long ago figured out the plumbing issue with respect to rotating machinery--fan blades are all cooled from the inside with some kind of fluid. How does the cooling fluid from a non rotating plenum get into the blade, which is rotating up to 10,000 revolutions per minute?"

- Labyrinth seals are used on turbine shaft hubs, but...these leak a bit at all times; the "spill" usually captured and redirected to another part that could use a little compressor bleed air for cooling too.  Not sure the concept would be very much fun for sewage...unless the leak path was purged/vented.

- More likely is a setup like that used in the Space Needle (Seattle World's Fair, 1962), the outer ring of the restaraunt rotates, all services (kitchens, restrooms, elevators) are located in the central, non-rotating core.  I think only (low-voltage?) power for lighting passes the rotating joint.

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources