'Educated' opinions on climate change 41

csd72 · Jul 11, 2007

As engineers we are educated in physics and chemistry and should have a reasonable idea on what really effects the energy consumption that causes climate change. I am looking for peoples opinions on what suggestions have been good ideas to reduce your individual impact. Alternatively what suggestions have you heard that are utter nonsense.

It would be good to hear comments from engineers on this matter.

KENAT · Jul 11, 2007

Wow, you're a brave person to assume that everyone on this site will agree that energy consumption causes climate change. (I assume you primarily mean burning fossil fuels or do you mean a more widespread entropy based line of thinking?)

As for individual impact, re-using items where possible, e.g. get a re-usable water bottle instead of bottled water; canvas bags instead of disposable ones etc. If you can’t re-use try and recycle.

In the home, making sure it’s well thermally insulated. Use energy efficient bulbs and use them as little as possible. If you’re in a hot part of the world look at external shade, shade on ‘sun-side’ windows, ceiling fan etc. Minimize the amount of electronic goods you have that are ‘always on’. Get efficient appliances, always do a full load of laundry, minimize use of tumble dryer, look at on demand water heating, under floor heating…

Don’t fly. Minimize ‘powered travel’, walk or bike instead. If you must travel use mass transit/public transport if possible. If you must travel individually use the most efficient vehicle possible (scooter, Motorbike, small car/hybrid…); try to avoid congestion; keep to optimal speed etc.

I’m not sure this is what you were looking for, and lets be honest how many of us are going to go the whole hog on some of these?

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

csd72 · Jul 11, 2007

Good post kenat,

Yes thats the sort of things I am looking for.

I love the point about shade. Traditional australian colonial buildings have the roof extended out about 10' on all sides this creates the shade that you talk about and keeps the building remarkably cool even when it is 110F.

I also hear peoples airconditioners working at 8:00 at night even when it is cool outside just because they have not bothered to open the windows and let the hot air out of the house.

I believe in the RE's

reduce
re-use
recycle
or
repair

It is too easy to throw things away.

csd

kontiki99 · Jul 11, 2007

Disgusted over the disappearance of decent men’s barber shops I recent decided to just shave the stuff off.

I really like it too.

One economic impact is that warm rooms are much more comfortable. I've bee wearing a sweater in the office to keep comfortable in the AC.

My apartment summer electric bill is down 30% too.

Of course I'll need to grow it back this winter to cut heating costs.

csd72 · Jul 11, 2007

kontiki,

Thats another example. I find it crazy that places aircondition down to a temperature that makes most people feel cold.

csd

sms · Jul 11, 2007

Stop drinking imported bottled water. C'mon, it is water. Why are we wasting oil to make plastic bottles so that French water can be shipped (via cargo vessel running on diesel) to America, or even Arkansas spring water to Houston via diesel powered truck. Drink your local water! It is water, not wine. The only place imported water makes sense is if the local water is contaminated (rural Mexico for instance).

Shipping water around in plastic bottles is just the definition of crazy..

"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?" Oddball, "Kelly's Heros" 1970

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KENAT · Jul 11, 2007

sms, in principle I agree however you've clearly never tasted the local water where I live, it's revolting.

I always used to drink tap water however the last few places I've lived it tasted awful.

I suppose getting a filter might be an option, but otherwise that's why I now drink bottled water. At work I refil one bottle from the cooler, although I suppose this is still bottled water, hmm.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

zdas04 · Jul 11, 2007

First, let me say that I honestly believe that if the global temperature is increasing, it is not because of man. The links from "greenhouse gasses" back to burning fossil fuels are simply absurd.

On the other hand it is never a good economic idea to waste anything. I try to make smart choices at home (swamp cooler instead of air-conditioner, filtered water instead of bottled water, etc.) but altogether they are peanuts.

I'm an engineer. I design stuff. The stuff I design is always trying to milk every erg of energy from the input fuel. Picking a smaller rotor higher speed screw compressor saves 5-10% of a very large fuel tab. Reducing pressure drop in a pipeline can save hundreds of hp in not having to boost pressure back up to recover as much friction loss. Remove or avoid pneumatic control devices that continually vent. Any of these will save hundreds or thousands of times as much energy as you will expend over the entire life of the worst gas guzzler.

All of these are things that engineers need to be thinking of all the time. Conservation of energy, and conservation of stuff can be very nice adders to the plus side of the economics of a project. If you walk to work you are postponing the time that you can start really saving energy.

David

electricpete · Jul 11, 2007

The links from "greenhouse gasses" back to burning fossil fuels are simply absurd....

You are saying that the increase in 25% increase in atmospheric CO2 since the industrial revolution, increasing at a higher rate than ever observed during previous 600,000 years was not caused by burning fossil fuels? Just a coincidence?

Interesting theory. I guess I can see how that kind of logic leads to your conclusion about climate change.

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mls1 · Jul 11, 2007

" . . .increasing at a higher rate than ever observed during previous 600,000 years" - who exactly was observing it 600,000 years ago?

electricpete · Jul 11, 2007

The ice cores provide a record. I don't think those facts are in dispute. Unless you don't believe in science.

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zdas04 · Jul 11, 2007

Please, Oh wise one, what are the constituent percentages of the various greenhouse gases in the atmosphere? And of the fraction that is CO2 what percentage is anthroprogenic? And in a greenhouse there is a temperature gradient with the lion's share of the increase towards the top, is that gradient in any way reflected in the global atmosphere? Why do the ice-core swings in CO2 actually lag the temperature record by several hundred years?

http://www.oism.org/pproject/s33p36.htm

http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=-4123082535546754758

David

electricpete · Jul 11, 2007

I did not react to your statement about temperature (although obviously I disagree).

I addressed your statement about the link between fossil fuel burning and increase in greenhouse gases (which includes CO2). As I understood it, you think it's absurd to conclude that fossil fuel burning has anything to do with the observed increase in atmospheric CO2?

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mls1 · Jul 11, 2007

Believe? Irrelevant. Science is about evidence, not belief, and the evidence supporting ice core samples is weak at best. The inconsistent results between samples from the same period but analyzed by different scientists speak for themselves.

That's not to say that I don't agree with the previous sentiments regarding energy conservation. We all benefit from energy conservation, global warming or not.

zdas04 · Jul 12, 2007

ElectricPete,
I don't understand your outrage. Your statement that

Interesting theory. I guess I can see how that kind of logic leads to your conclusion about climate change.

was provocative and I'm only trying to find out where the flaw in my logic might lie.

My key point remains that as engineers we can and should take major steps towards maximizing energy effectiveness every day and these steps will have orders of magnitude more positive impact on the planet than all the cosmetic consumer stuff put together regardless of whether man has any significant contribution to global climate change or not. If I can reduce the energy demand 5% on a 1,000 hp compressor then I'll save over $20k/year--it'll take a bunch of reused canvass bags to equal that modest savings.

The thread is about techniques to conserve. We've all heard about the "re's" of consumer energy efficiency and I was hoping to trigger a discussion of the much larger impact of industrial energy efficiency.

David

epoisses · Jul 12, 2007

"Educated opinion" is a contradictio in terminis!

Educated = facts, opinion <> facts, so educated <> opinion

An opinion is a cheaper substitute for a pile of data.

csd72 · Jul 12, 2007

Electric pete, David,

Chill out (is there a HVAC engineer that can help them with this!).

David does make a very valid point, the data that I have seen shows a significant difference in the CO2 and the temperature rise with the rise in CO2 actually following the temperature rise.

I would also add that there is an economic theory that basically says: "just because FactorB follows factor A does not necessarily mean that factor A caused factor B, it could be the other way around, or they both could be symptoms of another hidden cause."

I believe in global warming, but I also agree that the facts are not actually that conclusive.

csd

BrunoPuntzJones · Jul 12, 2007

We've had plenty of these global warming argument threads already, lets not start another.

Back to the OP (I wrote a longer post, but managed to lose it, so this iis the condensed verison as it's just to annoying to retype the whole thing).

Things to do to lesen you own impact

House
As discussed above. Additionaly, double pane windows are a no brainer. Low emissivty windows are a huge help as well (in most cases).

Food
Eat more locally produced food to cut down on food miles. Educate yourself on what you eat and where it comes from. Shop at farmer's markets, join a CSA (farm-share), and avoid heavily processed foods.

KENAT · Jul 12, 2007

I'm impressed, about 8 posts before it broke down to a debate on whether there's link between fossil fuel use and global warming/if global warming exists.

On the double glazing/low emissive windows I was including this as thermally insulating the house.

Good point on the food. Looking at it I guess if you cut down on 'non essential' food and plant consumption that may help without requiring major life style changes. Since the raw material for things like chocolate, tea, coffee etc are usually grown far from where they are consumed I suppose you could cut your emissions just by using less of these, without having to worry if the spud you’re about to eat is local or not.

Plus of course some of these raw materials are grown in areas that may otherwise be rain forests etc which could be seen as helping. (Although given that a mature forest with the decomposition taken into account probably isn’t as much of a carbon sink as some would like to think, maybe that isn’t a major factor)

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

SomptingGuy · Jul 12, 2007

Walk your kids to school!

I can't speak for the rest of the world, but in the UKOGBANI our kids go to the local (state) primary school by default until age 11. People actually move house so their local school is the one they want. So by definition, they are within walking distance. I get held up on my daily cycle to work by parents driving their kids half a mile to school. And I'd bet money that if they didn't do the two half-mile drives a day their exhausts wouldn't rust through and need annual replacemnt. Worse, I'm starting to see more and more BIG vehicles with a single kid as passenger these days.

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