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The key to getting ahead is not technical..
3

The key to getting ahead is not technical..

The key to getting ahead is not technical..

(OP)
I subscribe to Hydrocarbon Processing, and I recently received a newsletter with the follow links on important factors to enhance your career. The primary quote from the newsletter was:

“But for those engineers who are looking to advance their careers, in terms of responsibility, title and compensation, the surprising revelation is that non-technical skills are most likely the ones that will help them stand out from the competition.”

Technical skills are necessary, but there are far too many engineers that expect to advance solely on their technical skills, and unfortunately that may not happen. If you want to stand out, take some of the advice presented in the following links. I have, and it works…

http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/careers/careerstemplate.jsp?ArticleId=c060704

http://www.eetimes.com/salarysurvey/1998/work_companies.html

http://www.chemistry.org/portal/resources/ACS/ACSContent/careers/empres/nontech_news3.pdf

-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades! happy shades

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RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

Well, I'm glad to see that these "gurus" have finally figured it out.  Where would I be if I didn't have the benefit of the incisive insights?

Thank goodness my school already figured that out 30 years ago, when it made it mandatory for me to take a public speaking class.

TTFN

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RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

Well I guess it depends on how you define "getting ahead". If becoming a company expert in a narrw technical field is not getting ahead, as opposed to reaching managerial levels, then obviously technical skills are not very important, an overdose could even be a severe handicap.

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

You must know your technical field, but also be able to communicate with peers and superiors and lead others to be a group leader, project lead, manager, etc.

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

"Technical skills are necessary, but there are far too many engineers that expect to advance solely on their technical skills"

This attitude is why I wouldn't advise anyone to take up a 'technical' career.

corus

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

There seems to be some negative responses that appear to be unwarranted.  The issue is not whether you have technical expertise, but whether:

>  you can effectively communicate and disseminate your knowledge for the benefit of your company, so that they can make money and continue to pay your salary

>  you can effectively communicate with your customers and demonstrate why your solution and your company is the right answer for their problem.

>  you can effectively transition from being an SME on substance A to being an SME on substance B, when the market changes and your company needs to change, which requires being in the loop and recognizing the changing circumstances

>  you can solve tangible and meaningful problems for your company, which implies knowing what is relevant to the company and being involved.

None of this is terribly new.  Even in the days when "build a better mousetrap and they will beat a path to your door," was prevalent, if no one knew you had a better mousetrap, you'd still starve.  Even at that, Henry Ford demonstrated 100 yrs ago that a well built and inexpensive product often trumps an expensive "best" product

Certainly, if you are the type that expects to spend the rest of your life refining substance A in some isolated laboratory, never to be bothered by real world concerns, you're hosed.  But there were never that many of those to begin with, and even 30 yrs ago, they were the subject of pity and derision in most parts of a company, being part of the "ivory tower" contingent.

The only real difference now is that there are fewer ivory towers and they're overcrowded.

TTFN

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RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

I agree with where you are coming from corus. The Institute of Engineers Australia published an article on Australias top 'Engineers' - they were all CEO's that would have very little to do with engineering on a day to day basis.

If being a CEO is the pinnacle of our careers then it would be much easier getting there by doing a business degree!

They are successful yes, but no more an engineer than a former carpenter running an international company is a carpenter.

csd

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

I keep getting asked to give a presentation to new engineering students.  It's a lovely opportunity to scare the bejabbers out of, and corrupt forever, the next generation.  

The one PowerPoint slide that shakes 'em up is a list of skills an engineer should have.

The list shows:

Mechanical Design
Electrical Design
Accounting & Finance
Public Speaking
Writing & Documentation
Sales & Marketing
Diplomacy

A circle appears and surrounds the Mech/Elec Design items and I say that these are the skills that you need for daily work.

Another circle appears and surrounds the remaining "soft" skills.  I say these skills are what you will need for career growth.

They're all pretty disappointed when I say that.

ANOTHER story, one of my favorite management episodes was when "Jane" transferred from another department.  She had been completely autonomous in her previous assignment, but absolutely dedicated and conscientious in her work.  She was completely frustrated and causing a lot of angst & anger in the department, and other departments with her behavior.

I finally had a talk with her and told her flat out:  it does not matter how technically excellent you are.  It is a good thing, but if you cannot play well with the other kids in the sandbox, you will not be effective or successful.  She took the hint and the next day went around apologizing to everyone for her behavior.  All was well in the sandbox after that.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Advanced Robotics & Automation Engineering
www.bluetechnik.com

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

(OP)
tygerdawg, that was a great story...

I have known far too many engineers that sit in their cubicles and moan about how unfair it is that they do great technical work, but never get any recognition, and I am not talking about ivory tower people, but rather front line in the trenches sorts of engineers. Then when a colleague manages to step out of the mire and escape cubeville, he or she is obviously a brown noser.

You can whine about the good ol boy network, or you can start networking.


-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades! happy shades

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RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

I'm waiting for the article titled "The Key to Getting Ahead is not Ethical".

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

I agree that all these other soft skills are important, I just think that technical knowledge is underappreciated.

csd

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

Hey csd72, you know what?  You're absolutely right.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Advanced Robotics & Automation Engineering
www.bluetechnik.com

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

The problem is... the simpletons in the rest of the company cannot understand or begin to comprehend the complexities of what an engineer does on a day to day basis. Furthermore the complex tasks we complete, with experience, are quite simpler to ourselves than would seem to another department. The problem is without "soft" skills no one will want to listen to you, or understand the validity of your argument.  Soooooo... it is as easy as this, network with everyone and learn how to tailor your responses to different individuals. easy enough

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

JsTyLz,

Some professions use jargon e.t.c. to make a fairly simple job look more complicated (e.g. management and marketing).

As engineers we need to take a complex job and convert it into as simple language as possible.

csd

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

How come no one else in other departments has the "soft" skills to read an entire paragraph or listen for more than 15 seconds?

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

csd
thanks for reiterating my point

TheTick
Again if you don't network or have an agreeable personality I don't care if you found a cure for cancer no one wants to here what you are saying because you're boring. I didn't think I would have to elaborate considering we are all engineers.

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

That does not exceuse certain people, especially engineering managers and sales engineers.  They are supposed to speak the same language and understand technical issues.

I put considerable effort into writing coherently and speaking at the level of my audience.  It is still no cure for receivers' inability to pay attention.

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

I think maybe the issue needs to be rephrased:  The key to getting ahead is not *just* technical.  The bare starting point is having the technical knowledge.  But that technical knowledge will just stay inside your skull unless you can do the other stuff.

It's not just for career advancement, either.  A poor grasp of grammar and semantics makes for a badly written spec that a lawyer can have a lot of fun with.  In an ideal world, the other party also has a poor enough grasp of grammar and semantics that they can be convinced that the spec really does say what we meant it to, but it's still asking for trouble.

Hg

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RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

The problem isn't that the key to getting ahead isn't *just* technical, its that technical expertise only counts for 30% and the soft skills count for 70%.

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

EddyC,
"The problem isn't that the key to getting ahead isn't *just* technical, its that technical expertise only counts for 30% and the soft skills count for 70%."

I don't think the scales are tipped that much, but I think the shock truly comes from the working world is completely different then the university. Also, if anyone has read "The World is Flat" by Frieman, you have to continually expand not only your technical knowledge, but your communication skills. You think it is hard communicating with people within your company... hahahahahah, try explaining the failure modes of your design to an chinese manufacturing firm. I am not sure how much this relates to the original post, but I think the need for engineers to be effective communicators, no matter how difficult people can be, is why I get paid more than most of those difficult people. Engineering departments are where the product is born, where it evolves, and where at the end of it life is put to rest.

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

You know exactly what the balance is between soft & technical skills may vary a lot between different sectors of industry, or at least different employers.

My current place has a lot of academically/technically brilliant people, many in fairly senior positions.  However, many soft skills are severly lacking.

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

Kenat is absolutely right that the key to getting ahead can vary greatly among industries.

Being employed by an engineering firm, technical skills are a must to move into management, if that's what we call getting ahead. To be "project manager" you must do your time as a staff engineer, then lead engineer, first. Whether you understand budgets, critical paths, work break down structures, and other 'project management' type things appears to be irrelevant. SInce we engineers are sooo brilliant, we can easily learn all that other junk on the job as PM. (I am slightly sarcastic because we have some PMs who are completely baffled by a project schedule. That doesn't work out well when the client's other sub accuses you of delaying their work and the PM doesn't understand enough to defend us appropriately.)

I think that companies who are not solely engineering may give more weight to the soft skills, and 'getting ahead' might mean getting out of engineering all together.

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

Engineers do not have to sacrifice their technical skills in order to improve their business and social skills and I wish someone would explain to me the rationale for thinking otherwise.

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

They may not have to but they often seem to.

I've known people who were reasonable engineers but the further they got into management the less you'd have known it from decisions they made.

Not sure I can give the rationale just anecdotal evidence.

Maybe it’s that they’re trying to look at the bigger picture, not just the technical details.  That said they often seem to get caught up on certain points and seem oblivious to others, so maybe not.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

I don't see the problem so much as engineers having to sacrifice technical skills but that those who have inferior skills can nevertheless do better than competent engineers, if they make up for it with the other skills.

Hg

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RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

Ken,

It's a funny thing that as an engineer begins to climb the greasy pole of the corporate ladder (I think that may be a mixed metaphor), one of the resentments that he/she will begin to experience from the engineers he/she has left behind is based on their idea that he has lost his/her technical knowledge.

I have worked really two sorts of manager (broadly speaking). The first is the type who is only ever looking up (and these guys have no further use for their technical knowledge, the ability to say 'Yes Sir' is far more important) and the second are those who are looking around (these tend to be able to combine both technical and management skills, and after that the better ones are the ones who are able to blend the two streams together most fluidly). No need to say which I have preferred to work with

PS When it comes to being resentful, I am well able to do that should the need arise

Kevin

“Insanity in individuals is something rare, but in groups, parties, nations and epochs it is the rule” Nietzsche

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

I have heard engineers that I attended school with say that some of the students who couldn't survive in the lower level engineering classes transferred over to the business school. These people who seemed to lack the fundamental technical ability to become engineers eventually became the supervisors and managers for the engineers. Karma can be a tricky thing.

Most of the upper level managers and vice presidents that I have known (with some very specific exceptions) appear to lack the most basic technical skills that I would deem necessary for an undergraduate engineering curriculum. And these are usually the people who get to make the decisions that all of the engineers who work beneath them in the corporate ladder have to learn to live with. Is it any mystery why the decisions made by accountants, marketing professionals, and business majors often don't jibe with the technical requirements of the project?

Maui

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

The problem is that professional managers understand other 'management type' professions such as accounting and marketing. They dont understand engineering. They therefore listen more to the marketing and accounting than they do to the engineering.

If you dont like it, work for a smaller company.

csd

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

For me 'management type' professions such as accounting and marketing is just like the orientation for a a car while the engineering is the the motivity,both are necessary.
But for a boss ,less speed or wrong orientation,which would be prefered?
undoubtedly,in a company,prompted engineer would choose manager as the future.

We are always available to help each other.

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

I believe that the key to getting ahead has almost nothing to do with technical knowledge in this business.  Its who you know and how good you are at getting others to believe you know what you are talking about ;)

During my review in April of 2006 my boss told me I wasn't assertive enough (translated: I wasn't aggresive enough with getting others to go along with my ideas) he would actually make me change designs just to argue even if it wasn't the right way to do it.

So he signed me up for executive leadership training.  I actually enjoyed the training and learned alot about my communication skills.

But in the end I knew that I would never get promoted no matter how assertive I was (just based on others who were in similar positions as me).  I have since found another job.

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

RAH1234,

 Engineers do not have to sacrifice their technical skills in order to improve their business and social skills.

social and business skills are irrational at best and engineers are trained to be rational.  Throw in a couple of lawyers and let legal worries run your buiness and you'll see what counts and it isn't engineering skills.  I've seen the least skilled engineers talk to a judge or jury stating opinions that absolutely wrong and they "win".

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

Get the book  "Putts Law"

You will absolutely love it if you work in a "high tech" industry.

Just to whet your appetite.
Putts first law

"All companies eventually undergo a competence inversion where the people who can't do the hard stuff float to the top like the dross, because the living is easier there for them."

"All technology is managed by two groups.
1 Those that understand what they do not manage.
2 Those that manage what they do not understand.
"

The cast of characters include Dr I. M. Sharpe
Its a hoot. And every last word of it true.

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

Technical skills are the foundation that you build your career.

Soft skills, communications, people skills, marketing skills etc ate the superstructure that defines how far you can advance above the foundation.

Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
www.kitsonengineering.com

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

I'd love it if more technical people had more people skills.  Maybe its just the industry I'm in, but some days I'd swear that somebody is putting steroids into the drinking water at my place of business.  The way people fight - its really counterproductive.  It makes you feel like you've joined the mafia instead of an engineering firm.

But maybe that's just part of the human condition and "people skills" wouldn't change it.  On the other hand, I don't believe neurolinguistic programming has been attempted on any kind of a serious scale - could be worth a go.

RE: The key to getting ahead is not technical..

Survival of the fittest ExRanger... I notice the same thing. The people that let stress bother them try to make other people feel their stress. Quite sad really. I'll admit that everybody gets stress, but some poeple are miserable because they let things bother them and I think the only way they know how to handle it is to bother other people and cry poor me.

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