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Gorilla Management
5

Gorilla Management

Gorilla Management

(OP)
A former colleague of mind sent me this news article via the web the other day.  I must say it was scarry how accurately this described the company we used to work at.  Luckily I had the brains to "jump ship" when I did.  I figured that you all may enjoy the read....

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,172661,00.html

If you have never worked in an environment like this.... count your blessings....  

RE: Gorilla Management

I knew someone at the local zoo who specialized in gorilla management.

RE: Gorilla Management

We have one at our place. For anyone from work reading this, yes it is who you think it is.

He hasn't gone completely over the edge like the lunatic in the link but all the traits are there. I'm hoping that the next engineering mistake he makes doesn't hurt any of our people, but I am worried that one day that will be the outcome. We come into conflict most occasions when we speak; I have trouble following the advice in the link for dealing with this species of manager.
 

----------------------------------
  Sometimes I only open my mouth to swap feet...

RE: Gorilla Management

What's interesting to me in the article is the implication that these bosses weren't born that way, they were trained that way.  I have seen too many bosses go from great personable people to someone only focused on the bottom dollar.  They lost all friends in the workplace and subsequently no one would tell him what was really going on in the workplace.  Morale took a major dive, but he never noticed because he was too busy looking at the numbers.  People were migrating off the sinking ship, but he never realized because each less salary was an improvement to the bottom line.  Pretty soon, there was no one left to do the work, the company's reputation in the local area was tarnished so they couldn't hire good help.  They ended up having to spend a lot of money bribing people to hire.  Of course, those that stuck it out were upset that the newbies with no experience were getting paid more, so they ended up leaving also.

The company is still in business, but I don't know how.

--Scott

http://wertel.eng.pro

RE: Gorilla Management

I have a low (near-zero) tolerance for that.  There's other jobs, other bosses.  No one should have to endure such conditions.  It's more than sad.  It inflicts real and lasting pain on people who don't deserve it.

Growing up in a rage-infested family, I've developed pretty strong anti-bully vibes.  Bullies usually steer clear without my having to tell them.  I insist on being treated like an adult and on treating others as adult professionals, with no room for personal attacks.

batHonesty may be the best policy, but insanity is a better defense.bat
http://www.EsoxRepublic.com-SolidWorks API VB programming help

RE: Gorilla Management

Is the problem really with people who act this way or an extreme capitalist society where money is everything?

A manager is no longer a manager if no one will work for them.

RE: Gorilla Management

Wow, it almost describes the boss of some people I knew, and they were in a government/union job!  They eventually got the Gorilla fired but not without consequences.

On the other hand though their boss wasn't particularly intelligent so maybe not, she was definitely a bully though.

I suspect most peoples initial response would be along the lines of “I’d never put up with that, I’d quit” but in reality leaving, or at least doing so for an equivalent or better position elsewhere, is sometimes easier said than done.

For instance the people I mention above where in an area with a limited supply of well paying/good benefit jobs.  So a fairly well paying government job with excellent benefits, relative job security etc was very hard to walk away from.

RE: Gorilla Management

Plenty of these types in the East-bloc & Asia.  Not peculiar to capatilist societies.

RE: Gorilla Management

I used to work for a Gorilla (He owned the firm). I put up with it for 3.5 years, but finally ran out of energy. I scheduled my departure date (didn't care if there was another employer on board or not). I did however manage to secure employment prior to my scheduled departure date, but it ended up being the type of job that you take only to escape an intolerable situation. I was at the point of going postal, so leaving was the better option, even if no new job was secured. Better to be unemployed than incarcerated. My suggestion would be to drop a Gorilla boss ASAP. No matter how patient you are, you can only put up with a psychopath if you are one as well (I'm not).

RE: Gorilla Management

That article was very offensive...

... to gorillas, hey these noble apes don't deserve to be compared to some bosses.

RE: Gorilla Management

In my 12 years in engineering I have worked for four companies that had psychopaths that ran or owned the company.  The sad thing is I was unable to detect these traits before starting work.  These people know how to mask these traits when it's to there advantage like during an interview.

I use to work for this start up company and the owners (husband & wife) were psychopath and victim.  We were ramping up business due to some big $$$$ contracts.  We hired some really talented engineers.  My boss had the gift of the gab to luring in good engineers.  After they were hired I got the chance to have a sit down with them and told them what to expect.  I also told them to sit back and watch it unfold.  The story happened just as I told it.  I was the last one to leave that place.


Quote:

My sister with her PhD. in Psychology has always advised me that the person at the top of the organization will imprint his/her personality on the organization.  If they're nice honest demanding people, then the org will be on a fairly even keel.  If they're a whacko psycho backstabbing evil SOB, then the whole place will be neurotic and dysfunctional.

Quote:

Tick's golden rule of business anthropology: Bull$**t persists because it is allowed to persist.


Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SWx 2007 SP 3.0 & Pro/E 2001
XP Pro SP2.0 P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400
      o
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(_)/ (_)

(In reference to David Beckham) "He can't kick with his left foot, he can't tackle, he can't head the ball and he doesn't score many goals. Apart from that, he's all right."  -- George Best

RE: Gorilla Management

No, they're born that way.  The only difference is that they went into business, instead of crime.  As in the case of Tony Soprano, he's just an ordinary guy, loving husband and father, unless it's about his business.

Having survived one such boss, it's clear that this guy was psychotic, simply because he'd get an Oscar if it was just an act.

TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies


RE: Gorilla Management

I had a department head that fit the bill.  He expected me to tell him when I went to the bathroom and when I got back.  Once, he sent a letter from his beach hotel room to meet him there (about a 5 hour drive) on a Saturday to talk over some of my calcs that he brought with him.  I was a no-show, of course.  He complained many times to the engineering manager about this and other acts of "insubordination" (his term) right up until the time he was released from his duties.  He was escorted out and security was stepped up for a while afterwards because some thought he might return in a sour mood.

When his desk was cleaned out, one of the many interesting things they found was a large collection of silverware from a local eatery - it had the restaurant's name imprinted on it.

That was 6 months of my professional life that I'd like erased from memory...



If you "heard" it on the internet, it's guilty until proven innocent. - DCS

RE: Gorilla Management

I worked for that same company, I mean really, and there were more than one of them, and of course they were all cronies, but got out as well... I hear now the final "gorilla boss" (the filthy ape) got tangled up with a verbal harrasment case and he won't be returning from his extended absence. Also the president wasn't signed back on at the end of his contract, because he put up with Magilla Gorilla, as we used to call him around the water cooler, so just avoiding the boss is a shameful, tuck it between the legs way to handle it, and it might come back to bite you. I suggest jumping ship, but only after you are able to succeed in the face of this adverse situation.

RE: Gorilla Management

Quote (JsTyLz):

I suggest jumping ship, but only after you are able to succeed in the face of this adverse situation.

Don't wait to succeed.  Vote with your feet.

RE: Gorilla Management

(OP)
JsTyLz

  I think we worked at the same company... You just described to a "T" what had happened at my previous company.  

RE: Gorilla Management

Whoever reads this thinks that companies are full of primates that share 98% of the DNA with human beings...
But I am still convicned that htese are the exception and not the rule.
Gladly I never came across such situation and I hope I'll never will.
Either way I go with the flow, I work because I like and to earn money for my family, not to earn ulcers and phycological problems.

RE: Gorilla Management

I tend to agree MedicineEng, when I read posts that say all my bosses have been like that I do wonder if they are incredibly unlucky or the problem is with the poster.

Whilst I am sure there are people out there like this I find it hard to believe badly run companies continue to make profit in the current business environment.

RE: Gorilla Management

MedicineEng and ajack1 posts provide me with a faint glimmer of hope that someday I may work under a good leader and not some psychopath or sociopath. I have always found that at any company there is a "gorilla manager" in at least one (or more) of the three levels over me. Even if my immediate boss is normal, he will eventually exhibit some form of deviant behavior as the stress builds.

It is true - the upper level manager sets the atmosphere. A gorilla manager may deliver short-term results but it ultimately results in long-term destruction. I can look back on my career and see the destruction created by some. Sometimes it happened while I was still at that company. Sometimes I find out about it long after I've left. The score so far is 6 out of the 8 companies I've worked for in favor of the gorillas.

Employees should require reference from their employers, and not the other way around - Murder on the Orient Express, Agatha Christie

RE: Gorilla Management

Quote:

Either way I go with the flow, I work because I like and to earn money for my family, not to earn ulcers and phycological problems.
  I think you will be awakened when and if you ever get to experience this first hand.

Quote:

I use to work for this start up company and the owners (husband & wife) were psychopath and victim.  We were ramping up business due to some big $$$$ contracts.  We hired some really talented engineers.  My boss had the gift of the gab to luring in good engineers.  After they were hired I got the chance to have a sit down with them and told them what to expect.  I also told them to sit back and watch it unfold.  The story happened just as I told it.  I was the last one to leave that place.

I witnessed first hand at this company a Jr engineer receive a punch to the chest by the husband for not knowing something.  Then the drama really started with the lawsuite.  It was ugly to say the least.  

I think this type of environment mostly happens in smaller companies.  I can't imagine this happening at Boeing, GE, or some other multibillion dollar company.  

Quote:

Whilst I am sure there are people out there like this I find it hard to believe badly run companies continue to make profit in the current business environment.
  My last company was a family run company that was very profitable in fact I left a really nice yearly bonus for a more "stable" mid-size company.  I guess being denied time of for a death in the family and a birth of a child just put me over the edge....especially when the owners daughter got time of for her medical condition.  I guess I had the wrong last name.
Bottom line is I hope nobody has to go through this type of work environment but abusive work relationships are not a figment of the imagination.

RE: Gorilla Management

These types of people cast a very long shadow. And the damage they do can remain long after their departure. But there is a reason why they exist - and in certain situations they perform a critical role and are needed. They can be the right kind of fit in a company that really needs a wake-up call in order to survive in the marketplace. Just before I worked there, a company that I formerly worked for had a president who fit this description to a T. According to the employees that worked for him he was a drunk, napolean-complexed SOB who would swear up a storm in front of just about anybody, but he got his people to tow the line and follow the right line of thinking. After the bloodbath was done and the company found itself in better shape, they let him go. My only regret is that I didn't get to meet him. After hearing so many stories about him, it's difficult to believe that someone this dysfunctional ever made it to the top of a company. I guess that I just wanted to actually form my own opinion. It may be a good thing if I never get to do this.

Maui

RE: Gorilla Management

In your case, the end result MAY have been positive, but I also wonder at what cost.

I have also seen where this type of manager on top causes a situation where everyone underneath, resists.  By resists, I mean in the way that is achieved through the use of co-coercive management.  The people do, just good enough, to keep the boss quiet, but will never truly excel.  

Ultimately, in order to be successful a manager must be able to  rely on their own, "personal power", which can only be achieved through earning the respect of the people that they manage.

RE: Gorilla Management

3
Ok,  I have to post to this.  Many years ago I worked for the King Gorilla (aka Satan) at a large manufacturing company.  He was a VP and I was a manager over supervisors. Yes, he was a great manager for getting the numbers but, to list just a few of the highlights, here is what it cost:

1.    He ordered me to fire one of my employees because the guy got leukemia after 40-yrs of service.  He thought it would cost the company to much on insurance.
2.    He ordered me to fire another employee because “he is one of those lazy ‘N-word-here’ and you know how they are”.
3.    He drove another manager so hard that the guy had a heart attack at his desk and died.  He wouldn’t give time off for anyone to go to the funeral “because the guy was only here for a short time so we didn’t really know him”.
4.    My father had an emergency triple bypass surgery and he didn’t want to let me go “because that’s a common surgery these days and it not as big a deal as it used to be”.  I went anyway.
5.    I won’t even tell you the toxic waste story, or the many multitudes of verbal bashings, threats, public tongue lashings, lies, covering for him while he cheated on his wife, covering for his drug abuse, and listening to his stupid sob stories and why I should feel sorry for his rough life.

In short here is how it played out.  I refused to fire either one of the guys noted above.  I stated: “I not only will not fire either one of them, if you fire them I will quit.” Satan and I got into a heated argument which resulted in him pushing me physically in my office, I snapped and beat the crap out of him and left.  When I walked out of my office, everyone in cubieville was stunned.  I called my wife and told her that our plan to move was going to happen quicker than I thought and I went home.  

I warned the two other employees that the nut-job was out to get them.  The guy with leukemia took my job and began recording all his conversations with the boss.  Two months later he was ordered to “fire that ‘N-word’”.  Bingo, the second guy quit, took the company to court, the guy with leukemia played his tape, and the second guy got a $2-million dollar settlement.  The leukemia guy retired, “nicely”, and is still doing fine after 15-yrs.  Satan has been fired three times from three other places but he is still a VP at another well known company.  May God pitty them.

Thanks for letting me vent,…..  It’s been a long time.

RE: Gorilla Management

i had to give you a star HS.  That is real life you posted!  Bless you for your ethically sensitive mind!  I wish there were more managers such as yourself.  Great job sir!!!

RE: Gorilla Management

"I'm not here to win any popularity contests."
No, I've never heard that said in real life, though I have worked for some who treated this as a guide to life. I guess I'm no different to anyone else in having met some pretty bloody minded people but only one could be described as a gorilla, or, if not a full grown gorilla, a pretty mean ape.
I guess the gorilla I knew never ever thought how other people saw him and could give a damn if he did.
But then, I have only known the non-virulent form; given to occasional outbursts, not a daily outpouring.
Actually, probably all the more shocking for that since I guess with a regular Gorilla you build up some ability to endure.
With the one I knew, (he was probably usually pretty well medicated I guess) his outbursts were unusual and therefore seemed pretty bloody to those of us not used to such behaviour.
There is a plus side to mergers and acquisitions though, and when it happened to our company, he was one of it's first victims and we all breathed easy for the first time in a long while.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: Gorilla Management

The other side of it, though, is people who are all about the popularity contest and wind up being ineffective managers because they're afraid of doing something that someone might not like.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: Gorilla Management

This is for all the Gorilla managers out there

YOU ALL NEED TO STOP YAPPING AND GET BACK TO WORK

I thought their voices needed to be heard too

RE: Gorilla Management

Perhaps there's a place for Gorilla managers, you know when all the employees are monkeys.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: Gorilla Management

I'm surprised how much the tools used by gorilla managers are similar to those found in domestic violence. The methods of harassment, verbal abuse, threats, manipulation, intimidation and emotional control are pratically identical in psychological description. Domestic violence adds physical harm/assult and sexual harm/assult at the top whereas the Gorilla manager doesn't use these tools or uses them little.

The abusive techniques used by a bad boss in control of an employee are just so similar to an abusive partner relationship. I have seen a manager scream and shake his fist at an employee - something that would get a spouse or partner arrested immediately had it been in other than a business setting.

RE: Gorilla Management

gnomus, they are indeed very similar traits, my wife has worked in the domestic violence field and had a gorilla management in a more recent job and pointed out the similarities to me.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: Gorilla Management

Sirs, although gorilla and guerrilla have the same pronunciation, I am afraid that the correct expression is GUERRILLA management.

http://NotOnlyBridges.blogspot.com

RE: Gorilla Management

(OP)
No, I am afraid you are incorrect.  We are talking about managers who walk around beating their chest all day.  Not, dirty South Americans hiding in the jungle preying on the innocent.  Had you read the news article I posted, you would have seen they were talking about animals not freedom fighters! :)

RE: Gorilla Management

But it's true that gorilla management tends to lead to guerilla among the staff

RE: Gorilla Management

No, Ho Chi Minh was a guerrilla manager.

We are talking about Gorilla managers, the types that beat their chests etc.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

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