SE responsible for UL rating?
SE responsible for UL rating?
(OP)
I just finished talking to an architect who ask me if having a steel stud of a lighter gauge than shown in a certain UL assembly violated the UL rating. I told him that it was an architectural issue. He acted like I just didn't want to my job. Do any structural engineers out there determine the UL ratings of the various assemblies on a project? Isn't that the architects realm of expertise?
Any comments would be appreciated.
j
Any comments would be appreciated.
j






RE: SE responsible for UL rating?
RE: SE responsible for UL rating?
i would tend to agree with you that it is their responsibility.
RE: SE responsible for UL rating?
I have worked with architects that often knew very little about fire rating and would stumble their way thru these issues, pointing fingers at others.
RE: SE responsible for UL rating?
1. Perform the code analysis on the building
2. Determine what fire ratings are required both in terms of assemblies and individual members.
3. I conjunction with the engineer, select a type of structural floor/roof/wall system to use in various areas of the building.
4. Find appropriate UL assemblies to design around
5. Communicate those UL assemblies to the engineer.
Engineer
1. Assist the architect in selecting the appropriate structural floor/roof/walls system based on economy, spans, location, etc. (i.e. not just fire-protection).
2. Review the UL listings to verify that minimum structural element sizes are consistent with the UL types.
3. Notify the architect if there are problems with any particular system selected.
4. Have a beer together.
RE: SE responsible for UL rating?
RE: SE responsible for UL rating?
1. If it's the Architect's job to spec out anything related to life safety, like, IMO, fire-rated assemblies, then it's his job.
2. How much does this or that fire-rated assembly weigh? And, what thickness of concrete slab is rated for how long in a fire? These are structural issues and they're the kind of things I should know and be able to assist the architect or anyone who asks. N.B.: assisting is not the same thing as "being responsible for." I get asked fire-rating questions every now and then. If I can provide assistance, I do. But we've also got a registered Fire Protection engineer on retainer and I always add the caveat, "you should ask the Fire Protection engineer for the final word..." Some folks hate that because it means they have to get on the phone or write and e-mail; why couldn't I have just given them the right answer?
RE: SE responsible for UL rating?
DaveAtkins
RE: SE responsible for UL rating?
I don't think that UL answers questions like that. They are simply a laboratory that does tests for hire on specific assemblies and then sets fire design parameters around those assemblies. They are not a code-writing type of organization.
I do agree with your sense of TEAM. That is why I suggested in my post above that the engineer should assist the architect in the selection of assembly components and advise them of issues related to fire protection.
RE: SE responsible for UL rating?
But the UL books are chock full of hundreds of tested assemblies that may work with a 25 guage stud. Of course, you can have an untested assembly tested for compliance but third party testing is very expensive.
Don Phillips
http://worthingtonengineering.com