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Forbes 25 best and worst jobs
17

Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

(OP)
Forbes listed their 25 best paying jobs (in the US), and I was interested to note that two engineering positions made the list:

Engineering managers at a mean salary of $110,000 USD
Petroleum engineers at a mean salary of $101,000 USD

Here is the link to the article..

http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/103105/the-best-and-worst-paying-jobs-in-america


-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

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RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

Wow, I never realise Americans screwed over their bottom enders so badly.

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

No wonder my health insurance is so high!

If you take some time and look around, almost everything you see is the result of engineering.

Another observation:  Doctors practice medicine.  If I practiced engineering I'd lose my job!  Speaking of that, gotta get back to work.

Nice link Sms!

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

2
My P.E. certificate says I'm "authorized to practice as a Professional Engineer".

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

I wonder why they calculated mean salaries as opposed to median salaries? This means that a few very highly compensated individuals could skew the results significantly.

-Christine

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

I'm not sure what they mean by engineering "managers".  Senior level engineering project managers at my firm don't make that money (unless they have 30 years experience).  The department head does, but he supervises over 30 people in the department.  

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

3

Quote (Tomfh):

Wow, I never realise Americans screwed over their bottom enders so badly.

Not everyone has what it takes to be a rocket scientist.  Someone has to flip the burgers and make the fries.  It's not socialism, and it works.

______________________________________________________________________________
This is normally the space where people post something insightful.

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

Nice controlnovice.
It is true.  If you didn't make more money doing certain professions there would be no incentive to take on the job.  Why would you want to work extra hours and take on the extra stress of being a lawyer, doctor, engineer, etc... if you could down the street and work at Wendy's for 10k/year less but be home with exactly 40 hours every week and the biggest stresser you had was making sure you don't over-cook the fries, and the most ridiculous deadline you had was to make sure the kids' meal toys arrived on time?
C'mon TomF!!

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

Quote:

It's not socialism, and it works.

Up to a point, ever tried living on minimum wage?

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

Great point Kenat!  Even at $10/hr which is substantially higher than minimum wage, it is hard to get by (especially if you have to buy your own health insurance), much less save for the future.

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

Kenat and Icenine-
I really don't like to get into politics because it really does start a lot of arguments, but I can't resist the urge here.
It may be difficult to make it on minimum wage (or even $10/hr), however , I would bet that most people (adults with real responsibility) earning that wage live in relatively low cost of living areas.  In Philly or NYC, even secretaries make in the 40's and 50's.
The bottom line is that if you want better for yourself, you must take the initiative to educate yourself and MAKE that future for yourself.  You can't expect someone to just give you more than you deserve (or the market will bear) for no other reason than "It's hard to make it on $10/hr".
How about this - If you can't make it on $10/hr, don't have (3) kids..... buy a cheaper car..... rent instead of own.... etc.

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

StructuralEIT,

I agree with what you are saying but I must comment on one point.

"..... rent instead of own.... etc."

Are you kidding? I live in Washington State and even if you don't live in the city you will still end up paying about the same amount for a house as you will in rent. The biggest difference is that with a house you can turn around and sell it in a year or five and make most, all, or in some cases more  money back than you put in, whereas renting you are throwing money away.

David

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

StructuralEIT,

I agree, this isn't the place to talk politics.

But, Kenat's question was have you ever tried living on minimum wage?  Well, have you?

I had a $10/hr job, no car, no kids, rented, and it wasn't easy, especially trying to put a little away for a rainy day.  Couldn't imagine doing it on minimum wage.

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

Thanks for the post 'sms'.

I was really surprized that Piping Designers weren't listed in the top 25 though.

NozzleTwister
Houston, Texas

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

Icenine-
I have made in the $10-$12/hr range (for the first couple years after high school).  I went to college late (because of life events), but certainly recognized that when I was doing a manual labor job, I wasn't as valuable to the company or society in general and my pay reflected that.  
That aside, many people are also paid based on what they help bring in for the company.  If your company charges $20/hour for your services, you can't expect to make $15/hour.  If your company can charge you out at $80/hour, you are going to make a whole lot more money.  
I don't think this has anything to do with America "screwing over their bottom enders".  
Someone please give me the solution such that noone makes less than $15-$20/hour and the companies paying them don't go broke.

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

I can feel my blood starting to boil so I will make this my last post on the subject.  
That is a nice "exxample", but the fact remains that the "average" company in America does not fit the profile of the copany listed in this "example".  A majority of Americans employed by companies FAR smaller than that company.  
The "real-world" example of Wal-mart couldn't be more off the mark.  How can you possibly compare most employers to Wal-Mart (which the article itself says is the largest employer in the United States?  To take one example of simplistic numbers for the largest employer and think you can realistically apply that principle to other companies is absurd!!
Further, would the government mandate this change?  That is getting dangerously close to socialism, don't you think?

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

As I said, it's one example.  I just think it would be nice if people who work full time (at any task) made enough to be able to meet their basic needs + maybe a LITTLE extra.  

$6.15/hr * 40hrs * 52weeks = $12,792/yr doesn't cut it in my book.

So, as my final statement on the subject: If wanting minimum wage to be increased is considered socialism, then sign me up.

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

Oddly the minimum wage in Oz is almost exactly 10 US dollars per hour. Our unemployment rate is less than 5%. We (nationally) don't seem to be going broke.

Cheers

Greg Locock

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RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

With the exception of a few cities I believe the minimum wage in the US is significantly less than $10.

http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm

As most are probably aware many 'minimum wage' jobs also don't provide (affordable) healthcare.  Many also don't guarantee 40 hrs a week and require working shifts other than normal ‘office hours’.

However all of this is arguably off topic and apparently inflammatory so I'll leave it there, except to say that I never thought I’d be the one playing the role of bleeding heart liberal!smile

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

The folks working minimum wage jobs in the USA are probably receiving some sort of governmental assistance (welfare, medicaid, food stamps, rent control, etc). What the employers don't provide, the government (i.e. taxpayers) provides. Good deal, right?

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

StructuralEIT,

So you are arguing that there should be no controls whatsoever upon wages and working conditions?

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

Not saying no controls whatsoever, but I do think the government should have as little influence as reasonable.  Would you propose companies that are posting a loss be required to increase their "lower end" employees pay just because you think they should make more?
What about the small company down the street that has 8 employees, has zero net profit and the owner makes less than some of his employees some months just to make payroll?  Should he be required to increase their pay to make you feel better?  Come on!!
You are paid based on what skills and expertise you bring to a company.  How much would you consider "enough"?  Wait, the next guy doesn't think that is enough.  How much does he consider "enough"?  Wait, the guy in line after him doesn't think that is enough!  Where does it end?  How about with this?  YOU GET PAID BASED ON WHAT YOU ARE WORTH TO A COMPANY AND HOW EASY YOU ARE TO REPLACE!!!  If a high school kid can do your job, how can you possibly expect to make a good living.  You should make enough to get by.  Additionally, people having low incomes not only pay ZERO federal taxes, but actually have a NET NEGATIVE TAX!!!!  I don't remember the number off the top of my head, but there is a dollar amount below which you will get back all of the money you paid in PLUS ADDITIONAL MONEY (assuming you have a kid(s)).  
Can we please end this political thread and keep it on the level of bettering yourself for work?  This is an ENGINEERING forum, correct?

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

Would you propose to reduce the minimum wage then?

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

EIT's philosophy appears to mirror basic free market economic systems.  Thus you wouldn't propose to lower OR increase the minimum wage.  The government in essence would not dictate a minimum wage level and would permit companies to pay what they feel is fair, and would permit workers to accept what they feel is fair.  Kind of an "Atlas Shrugged" economic system.  Workers barter services for wages, and both parties agree to certain terms.

I guess you can look at the years prior to 1938 with the enactment of the Fair Labor Standards Act for an example of what "could" occur with the elimination of such things like the minimum wage...but you've got too many social safety nets to go back to that era without a LOT of pain.  

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

It doesn't seem to matter anymore about wages and houseing where I'm at today.  The average house is valued at 4 times the average in the US.  The average person makes only 1.2 times the national average.  The only people that own houses are the ones that were here 10 years ago when housing was 75% of the national average.  Those people were then and now still working service industry.  Coming from an area where housing is normal, I can't buy a house here for what I'm paying in rent (FACTS the house I'm in the rent is 50% of what the payment would be with a 20% down payment).  So, here can live on less because their house payment is next to nothing, less than rent in a big city.  Oh, we can thank all those executives that though this little town was so quaint that they drop bundles of ill begotten booty and drove the houseing market to the stupidity level on the meter..

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

2

Quote:

Why would you want to work extra hours and take on the extra stress of being a lawyer, doctor, engineer, etc... if you could down the street and work at Wendy's for 10k/year less but be home with exactly 40 hours every week and the biggest stresser you had was making sure you don't over-cook the fries, and the most ridiculous deadline you had was to make sure the kids' meal toys arrived on time?

Why?  Because working in food service really, really, REALLY sucks.  Ever try it?  No?  Then don't sneer.

Trust me, people don't go into crap jobs because they're
"lower stress".  They aren't.

Hg

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RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

Star HgTX, the supposedly mindless jobs often aren't what they're cracked up to be.  Retail isn't much better.

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

Maryland or maybe just Baltimore has a law that says government contracted jobs must pay workers a 'living-wage'. I think it is like 11.65/hour.

"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli
Sr IS Technologist
L-3 Communications

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

HgTX-
I would say that those jobs suck because you don't make any money, not that you don't make any money because the jobs suck.  

I am just sitting back laughing now as some of the arguments coming across seem almost ludicrous.  Are you serious or just trying to get a reaction out of me?  Are you seriously comparing the level of stress and responsibility of a lawyer, doctor, engineer, etc... to that of a food service worker (or any other "low end" job)?
The job may very well be fast-paced, but I am not sure fast-paced = high stress.  Also, once you are done for the night, you leave everything at the door.  I doubt a waiter or waitress goes home and continues to try to figure out how to do something better.
I could go on for hours, but I won't.  If you are going to make a case, please make it reasonable.

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

2
My job isn't stressful. I design water treatment works. Between peer review, my own professional pride and the commissioning team, any mistakes that may have crept in are going to be picked up before the water gets to a customers tap. I am confident that if someone was poisoned by the water supplied by my treatment works, I will have done everything I could have been expected to do and it isn't likely to be my fault. Stress-free. Sure, tight deadlines and heavy workloads can start to wind me up but in the most part, its a good life.

In my other life, I tend bar at a local sports club. Its voluntary, but not so different from having a minimum wage job in another bar somewhere in town. We have a function room hired out for parties. With a full room and customers expecting serving and the bar needing re-stocking and everyone claiming they were next in line and the other barman sneaking off outside for a smoke, my stress levels soon rise. I like to take pride in offering a good service there as well but I'm more likely to go home feeling bad for ignoring the quiet guy at the end of the bar because I let the obnoxious tyrant monopolise my attention and I didn't do the best I could. Sure, if all the customers are polite and understanding, its easy to manage the pressure but that can't be guaranteed for every event.

I'm lucky that I have the intelligence and the opportunity to take on the highly paid, relatively stress-free job. I would hate to be in the situation where the low paid job with the demanding customers was the only way to feed my family. And then market forces allowed a high school student to undercut me and bring wages down, just because he wants the latest gadgets his parents won't buy.

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

Per some of the comments above ... not everyone that flips burgers or takes out the trash is uneducated or not a rocket scientist. They could be engineering students.

Chris
SolidWorks 07 3.0/PDMWorks 07
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 04-21-07)

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

Or in between Engineering jobs in a restricted market...

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

StructuralEIT--once again, have you ever done those kinds of jobs?  You don't seem to have much of a clue what you're talking about.  Those jobs, regardless of pay, just suck.  They don't suck because they don't pay, they suck because they suck.  They truly do.  I can't believe I have to explain this, but here goes.

Stress levels are a lot higher in blue-collar work, especially in the service industry, than they are in professional fields.  Yeah, from a big picture viewpoint the stakes may be lower, but in the immediate picture, it sucks.  

Every minute of what you do is under the near-absolute control of someone else.  The jobs typically involve spending a lot of time standing on one's feet, which is not healthy.  You can get burned by the equipment or by spills; you can be forced to work too fast and end up cutting yourself by accident.

The job security is terrible--minor errors can often get one fired, especially in non-union workplaces, and the workers typically have a lot less financial cushion in case of job loss than do workers in the upper middle class, which also means more stress in the form of worrying about losing one's job.  The atmosphere of a kitchen is often phsyically unpleasant--hot and steamy.   Because the workforce is typically not educated enough to stand up for their own rights, management tends to be more abusive than they would be in a "professional" workplace.

And most professionals are in their positions because, to some extent, they enjoy doing that work, regardless of how "important" (which you seem to equate to stress) those jobs may be.  Most people in the total crap jobs are in those jobs because that's what they can get, not because they find anything enjoyable about waiting tables, flipping burgers, or cleaning toilets.

Hg

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RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

HgTX-
I can speak from experience - I had a blue-collar job for 10 years while going to school to get my undergraduate degree.  Life circumstances put me in a position in which I could not go to college right after high school.  I won't get into what I did for a living, but the stress was virtually zero.  Have you ever had one of these jobs (not while you were in school, but to actually support yourself and your family)?  While the micromanaging may suck, as a blue-collar worker you have almost no decisions to make.  You simply do your job.  If you do it well, you won't have a problem.  If you do it poorly, then you will have a problem.  
I agree the jobs just suck (regardless of pay).  I made more when I left my blue collar job than I currently make as an engineer (by about 20%), and I was not in management (I was on a production line).  
All that being said, I am not going to debate this any further.  You obviously think people should be paid more (than they might make for a company), and I feel differently.  

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

Quote:

I made more when I left my blue collar job than I currently make as an engineer (by about 20%), and I was not in management (I was on a production line).  

Why'd you quit that job then? If it was stress free bliss and you got paid 20% more than a young engineer gets I would have imagined by your own arguments you'd be a fool to leave that job.

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

Stress is relative.  A sucky job generates stress of its own.  Engineering jobs have a certain amount of job satisfaction that can be hard to generate in a sucky job.

But, the mark of the true professional is that ability to transcend suckiness and deliver service with a smile.  winky smile

TTFN

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RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

Tomfh-
I find it interesting that you quote me but leave out a very relevant sentence just before the quote you pull from my post.  I did say, "I agree the jobs just suck".
The main reason for this is you can teach a blind ape how to do most of them.  Now, before you go quoting me on that I am not saying that people who do those jobs are as dumb as a blind ape.  All I am saying is that the jobs take zero thought process or decision-making ability.  The reason I left is because "the job sucked, regardless of pay".
I am failing to see your position, however.  All you seem to do it pick one of my statements, neglect any other relevant statements and then contradict it.  I would be interested to hear your position, and how you think it can be resolved.

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

I think anyone who believes that professional job stresses compare to the overwhelming life stresses that accompany poverty doesn't really have a grasp of the real world.

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

aplmke-
I agree 100%.  I have never been comparing job stresses of professionals with life stresses of those in poverty - not once.  This whole discussion started with someone saying, "I never realized America screwed over their bottom-enders so bad".

RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

2
(OP)
Getting back to the OP, I found this article interesting as well...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/career_and_jobs/specials/careers_in_energy/article1917003.ece

"The problem is that Britain has relatively few engineers – 5% of higher-education applicants opt for engineering courses against 15% in France and 44% in China. In 2004, there were more media studies undergraduates than physics and chemistry undergraduates combined."

So are you guys in the UK starting to reap the benefits of a tight engineering labor market?

-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades! happy shades

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RE: Forbes 25 best and worst jobs

I have never worked in a factory but I have had my fair share of fast food/restaurant jobs as well as professional jobs.  I think there are different kinds of stresses for each.  With the service industry I was on my feet all day and running around like crazy.  So there was a physical stress.  I had nothing to worry about if I did my job.  No decisions, or resposibilities beyond getting my job done and going home.  After a while of doing this there was not even a physical stress.  It was just a job to pay the bills.

As an engineer I have had mental stresses.  Worrying at night about decisions I made that day.  If I screw up its not a 5 dollar value meal its a 100k tooling change.  I also get to visit plants and see the end result of my labors.  I don't think one line worker I have seen has any form of stress other than sore feet at the end of the day.  I am not saying that all blue collar jobs are that way but just the ones I have seen.  The only blue collar jobs I have any sympathy for is the newbie construction worker digging a ditch on the side of the road in the middle of winter while standing in water ;)  And only a little bit because he probably makes more money than I do :)

On the other hand I believe stress is chosen.  Stressed out?  Quit!  I have done it before and will do it again.  Everyone makes their own bed.  I don't care what your childhood was like.  When you are on your own and responsible for your own life there is always a better way.  Just making ends meet?  Get a new job.  Not educated enough to get that job?  Go back to school.  I went to school full time (for my BSME) while working full time and raising a family.  

A family member of ours works on the line at GM and gets upset when he doesnt get his overtime.  He makes 100k a year when he does.  Doens't sound stressful to me.  Personally if I was stressed out I don't care what they are paying me.  To each his own I guess.

Sorry for the rant!  I think I am stressing myself out.

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