What does a consultant actually DO??
What does a consultant actually DO??
(OP)
OK, so I’m in the process of searching for a new job. I have a BS in Aerospace Engineering, and 5 years of experience as an engineer.
I know that the Big Four consulting firms hire engineers as consultants. After searching their job listings, I found one that looked interesting. The Job title and Responsibilities are posted below.
I’ve read the responsibilities part several times, and I still can’t make much out of it. There’s lots of nebulous duties like “serve as a resource” and “provide working level knowledge.” But what does a consultant actually do on a day to day basis?
Job Title: Associate/Sr. Associate, Risk Management, Aerospace & Defense
Responsibilities::
• Provide working-level knowledge within A&D and highly engineered manufacturing operations and/or supply chain functions; demonstrate experience in executing process and strategy improvement; provide value to clients by assisting with process transformation, improved operational performance, and organizational realignment
• Serve as a resource and key team member in client projects, and support progress against project milestones to help ensure timely delivery of project deliverables
• Demonstrate solid written and oral communication skills, such as status reporting, briefings, and one-on-one interfacing across multiple-level and cross-functional client representatives
• Contribute to the development and publication of thought leadership solution offerings
• Assist leadership in the creation of proposals, other business development activities, and practice administration
I know that the Big Four consulting firms hire engineers as consultants. After searching their job listings, I found one that looked interesting. The Job title and Responsibilities are posted below.
I’ve read the responsibilities part several times, and I still can’t make much out of it. There’s lots of nebulous duties like “serve as a resource” and “provide working level knowledge.” But what does a consultant actually do on a day to day basis?
Job Title: Associate/Sr. Associate, Risk Management, Aerospace & Defense
Responsibilities::
• Provide working-level knowledge within A&D and highly engineered manufacturing operations and/or supply chain functions; demonstrate experience in executing process and strategy improvement; provide value to clients by assisting with process transformation, improved operational performance, and organizational realignment
• Serve as a resource and key team member in client projects, and support progress against project milestones to help ensure timely delivery of project deliverables
• Demonstrate solid written and oral communication skills, such as status reporting, briefings, and one-on-one interfacing across multiple-level and cross-functional client representatives
• Contribute to the development and publication of thought leadership solution offerings
• Assist leadership in the creation of proposals, other business development activities, and practice administration





RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
Provide working-level knowledge := claim to know everything, but avoid actually doing anything.
executing process and strategy improvement := screw things up, even more than they were.
process transformation := tell the client to do everything differently. Not better, just differently.
improved operational performance := fire departments
organizational realignment := fire individuals
(You don't actually do the dirty work; you just make lists.)
key team member := attend every meeting. Wear wing-tip shoes, a conservative tie, and a dark suit, always.
support progress := impede progress, while claiming it's someone else's fault.
timely delivery of project deliverables := after making sure the deliverables are meaningless and/or useless.
written and oral communication skills := self- explanatory, except that you need to be able to deflect responsibility for doing anything, so as to avoid blame for having done it wrong.
status reporting := tree killer
briefings := kill more trees with preparation and reporting
one-on-one interfacing across multiple-level and cross-functional client representatives := snitch
thought leadership solution offerings := total bs
creation of proposals, other business development activities, and practice administration := generate more work for the consultancy, until the client is bled dry and dies. Business development includes finding other clients to bleed, e.g. vendors, customers, competitors of the client currently under attack, on the client's time of course.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
The job description is for a consultant in "fixing" whatever is deemed to need streamlining and efficiency improvement. Based on the first couple of lines, this involves firing people as well; but also includes trying to determine what course your client should take to improve their financial performance and/or future.
Given that you've only had 5 yrs of experience, you're probably under-qualified for something like that.
TTFN
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RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
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It may be like this in theory and practice, but in real life it is completely different.
The favourite sentence of my army sergeant
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
If you've done risk management before and you know what aerospace companies do then you're well suited to apply.
And yes, I'm a cynic as well. It pays to be when dealing with HR.
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
Fasteddie, by "Big Four consulting firms", do you mean the big accounting firms? You don't want to work for them.
The word consultant as it applies to engineers means just about anyone who works in the private sector, but usually means the firm rather than the individual.
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
Perhaps I am a cynic as well.
Johnny Pellin
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
Consultant: an ordinary person working a long long way off his home.
It is not mine, read in some quotations collection.
Cheers
'Ability is 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration.'
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
When I retired from a big oil company and started my minuscule business I had the same question. Four years later I find that I'm doing all the fun parts of the job I retired from and not much of the parts I hated. Typically, today I can do the problem analysis unhindered, develop a solution and/or a project design without many (if any) meetings, and then present the results to an interested audience. Occasionally the result will be that I build what I designed and that is fun too.
When I worked at a big company each of those steps required at least 30% of my time in pointless meetings and meaningless discussions with people who had little to contribute. Now meetings are closer to 3% and I just don't answer calls from ditherers--the people who hire me generally laugh about that.
David
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
Big consultancies are not at all like David's little business.
The side of them that's visible to ordinary corporate citizens is pretty much as I've described above, from actual experience, with no exaggeration, for a statistically significant sample of consultancies and clients.
The view from within the consultancy may be very different. I do not expect to ever find out.
If you take the job, be emotionally prepared for people to treat you with fear and loathing. Be wary of the ones who smile widest; they loathe you most.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
However what must be frustrating (I am not a consultant) is that you never actually achieve anything "real", your brilliant proposals always end up on place 39 on everyone's miles long to do lists (the report is usually too expensive to be filed without any further action).
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
In my experience, these management type professions use a lot of jargon to make their job seem more complex than what it is. This is quite the opposite to engineering where we actually go to great lengths to make sure that ordinary people (such as builders) can understand our designs.
You need to learn the jargon, and you also need to learn how to make a good presentation to management. You may need to stand up and defend your case in front of directors e.t.c. I would imagine that these are the only skills that you may lack for this type of position.
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
Those that can't do, consult.
Those that can't consult, teach.
"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."
Ben Loosli
Sr IS Technologist
L-3 Communications
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
The job is with KPMG, which is one of the big four accounting/consultancy firms. Hookie66, you said “You don’t want to work for them.” Why?
The qualifications of the job I posted were:
Qualifications for both positions:
• Two years of combined advisory or industry experience in Aerospace and Defense manufacturing operations and/or supply chain management (e.g. procurement operations, global strategic sourcing)
• Bachelor’s degree from an accredited college/university
• Strong analytical, presentation and other communication skills
• Experience in the co-development of proposals, deliverables and reports
• Willing to travel
Additional Qualification for Senior Associate:
• Additional year of advisory or industry experience in A&D or supply chain management industries
This was for an Associate/Senior Associate, Risk Manager, Aerospace and Defense. The requirements for Manager, Risk Management, Aerospace and Defense were similar, but required 5 years of previous experience.
I guess that’s where my disconnect is. If all their requiring is 2 years of experience for an associate, how can that person possibly be of any value in telling other companies how to improver their operations?
When I think of a “Consulting" firm, I think of more what zdas04 was talking about. Someone who’s been in industry for a long time retires, and then uses his vast experience to consult on projects. Makes sense, since sometimes, there’s nothing better than having a “gray beard” that you can call on who has faced the problem your tackling a thousand times already.
But for someone to be a “consultant” after having only 2 years of experience seems like a worthless task. If a company, say a mid-tier Aerospace supplier like Hamilton Sundstrand, has some problem with their operations that they can’t solve, how can they expect to bring in a tem of people with 2 to 5 years of experience, at other companies no less, to solve their problem? If Hamilton Sundstrand can't slove their problem, then I don't think and outside consulting firm would be able to.
Is that what the issue is? Is Management Consulting just some big sham that consulting firms sell to clueless company CEOs?
Regardless, after taking a second look at the job requirements, I see that they just require you have any Bachelor’s degree, and not an Engineering degree. That right there kind of turns me off the whole thing, because previous experience has taught me that being an engineer in a position that doesn’t require an engineering degree is a frustrating endeavor. Not to mention, it doesn’t usually pay as well as being in an actual engineering job.
Thougts?
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
CON
plus
inSULT
equals
CONSULT.
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
In response to your question of how someone with only 2 years experience is of any value:
You are an "associate." You most likely will be assigned to a "principle" with many years of experience in the biz. This person will give you gofer tasks & such until you are educated in what you need to do the job yourself.
I don't see it that much different than how engineers learn to do engineering. Someone asks you to design X, you go research X a little on your own, seek guidance from the guy who already knows, and so on. Don't know the best supply chain management recommendations for your client? Research, ask, and so on. Same thing.
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
A consultant is someone who when you ask them what the time is, they look at your watch and bill you for the information...........
Cheers
Harry
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
If you aren't part of the solution, there's good money to be made in prolonging the problem.
"If Hamilton Sundstrand can't slove their problem, then I don't think and outside consulting firm would be able to.
Is that what the issue is? Is Management Consulting just some big sham that consulting firms sell to clueless company CEOs?"
YES. Most manager, when told the problem can't be fixed, are convinced that hiring expensive consultants will solve the problem.
And of course, consultants are more than happy to be paid to try to solve it.
If you want to know the real dish with those jobs, read http://www.gettingdrunkinfirstclass.com/
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
Hg
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RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
Cheers,
Steve
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
You may already be overqualified. Consultancies like to indoctrinate young people before they are capable of understanding what a crock the company line actually is.
They don't even bother to customize 'solutions' for a specific customer (they do _charge_ as if it were custom work); they just keep recycling the same stuff, and train successive generations of fresh faces to sell it as if it's the greatest thing since canned beer. If they hire you with essentially no experience, you can do a better job selling, because you won't know any better.
With five years experience, if you have been paying any attention at all, you will spend a lot of time swallowing your tonque while attempting to recite the script with a straight face while feigning enthusiasm. If you can do it, you could probably do well as a thespian.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
If you give them a sample of something and they simply put their own cover sheet on it and charge you for the entire product... be sure that your contract with them doesn't allow that to happen.
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
To have the mentality that the consultants are there to get you, is self-destructive mentality and even inferiority complex. The very fact that you are in need to hire a consultant, you must be ready to pay for it, even if all it is "what time it is", because you obviosuly fail to accomplish that task on you own.
It is true , that as in all profession some are better than others. You need to do your own deligence to pick the right one and in the end you do get what you pay for.
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
Consultants offer solutions to their clients’ issues; it's as simple as that.
If you think you have the expertise to solve others' issues, you are qualified. Successful consultants are knowledgeable and confident enough to make decisions/recommendations on their own and standby it, and not pass the buck.
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
It seems to me the weaker professional they are the quicker they make it to the above.
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
"Qualifications for both positions:
• Two years of combined advisory or industry experience in Aerospace and Defense manufacturing operations and/or supply chain management (e.g. procurement operations, global strategic sourcing)
• Bachelor’s degree from an accredited college/university
• Strong analytical, presentation and other communication skills
• Experience in the co-development of proposals, deliverables and reports
• Willing to travel
Additional Qualification for Senior Associate:
• Additional year of advisory or industry experience in A&D or supply chain management industries"
Yes we had someone like that over from KPMG the other day. What this sophisticated supply chain management boiled down was basically fly over to France, count a couple of drums, fly back and make a report out of it (probably the hardest part).
I think you should ask them to give a couple of real life examples of missions that you would get on your plate. Question them and keep questioning until all the buzzwords have been filtered out and you have a substantial reply.
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
A shepherd is walking on a road along with his sheep. A mercedes comes along very fast and stops suddenly infront of the flock. An angry looking man in formals gets down, looks at the entire batallion disgustingly and wants to teach the shepherd a lesson. He goes to the shepherd and says that he would tell him the number of sheep without counting but in return he should get one sheep. The shepherd agrees. The man takes out his laptop, gets connected to a satelite, takes aerial picture of the flock, a software counts the number as 567. The shepherd gets thrilled and asks the man to take one of his sheep.
While the man carries one towards his car, the shepherd stops him and says. "will you give me back that creature if I guess your profession?" The man agrees and the shepherd says "you are a consultant".
Taken aback, the man asks how on earth could the shepherd deduce that . "Simple", the shepherd replies, "first you told me the information I knew. Secondly, you don't know what to do with the thing you get in return but you want it. Third, you don't know what you want to get in return. What you are carrying now is a calf and not a sheep."
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
Get an interview. Make them put you up in a hotel. Drink the minibar dry. Claim for the newspaper you bought to pass the time on your expensive train journey. In short, fleece them. Then as epoisses said, get them to give you some realistic examples of assignments. Give them the run-around and then turn the job down if offered.
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
Contract Design Engineer - person employed by company to focus on design (Contract Draughter - employed to focus on draughting). Amazing that at this level, the cost associated with these type of engineers manages to focus the manager's mind. Output - parts that will become a machine (also called life-blood of the company)
Consulting Design Engineer - person (barely, possibly wolf in sheep's clothing) employed by company to focus on concept design and more often than not tasked with producing 'concepts' for future developments. Output - does not matter, will always have no relationship to the end product.
It's like the add...
Engineer - cheap
Contract Engineer - dear
For everything else - be prepared to max out your Mastercard
Kevin
“Insanity in individuals is something rare, but in groups, parties, nations and epochs it is the rule” Nietzsche
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
The unfortunate is most "consulting" engineers do not understand their own role. Think how consultants of other trades think and earn, lawyers, counsels, doctors, management consultants or any other.. Like it or not the do make more money than number crunchers.
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
They are the ones who does not have qualificaitons to perform design calculations or seal and stamp design documents, but would like their crazy ideas implemented without validation.
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
In the UK consultants have become the easy option for managers who have neither the education nor experience nor ability to understand a problem at a technical level, and who assume that everyone who works for them has a similar level of ineptitude. Thus they assume that a problem can't be fixed in house because, after all, they can't fix it so why would anyone working for them be able to? The consultant comes in, pesters the life out of the engineers who would have fixed the problem had they not been prevented from doing so by their meddling pseudo-engineer managers, then presents his thin report misquoting what he was told by the staff engineers, padded out with lots of complicated jargon and weasel words, and of course his big fat bill. The engineers file the consultant's report in the bin and solve the problem the way they were trying to all along, and the management believe that they solved the problem by bringing in the consultant! Everyone is happy! And then over time the engineers get sick of the charade and get out of engineering or leave the UK to work overseas. Slowly the UK's industrial base dies and there are no jobs anymore. Everyone is sad.
/Rant Off/
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Sometimes I only open my mouth to swap feet...
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
I work hard and bill for the exact amount of time (well, rounded off to the nearest 0.5 hour) I spend on clients' projects. That's A LOT more than I'm sure they can say about their employees. I've worked in engineering offices before, and aside from personal phone calls, personal e-mails, surfing the net, BSing with co-workers, getting coffee, smoking, etc., most engineers claim to work 40-50 hours per week and do no more than 15-20 real hours of work/week.
I can also say what I DON'T do: I don't whine about not getting ownership fast enough or the size of my raise or bonus. I don't try to milk time, watch the clock, or expect an employer to take care of my health insurance or add to my retirement accounts. I don't whine about working evenings, weekends, or holidays.
That's why they don't mind paying me 3-4x the hourly rate of their employees.
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
Hmmm,.... take your watch and tell you what time it is.
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
I am not saying consultants are the smartest or godly bunch; it’s just that they offer a service for a fee. If you use their service, you pay for it. If do not like their fees, find someone else.
metengr:
If you need to hire a consultant to read your watch, you don't deserve the watch anyway!!
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
And then you get the ones who send in 27 year old MBAs to re-engineer your company. Hell has no pit deep enough...
Having said that if a company's management is mug enough to fall for the third type, and is unable to recognise the difference between the first two types, then that is scarcely the fault of the consultant.
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
They are woefully outnumbered by the other kind of consultants!
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Sometimes I only open my mouth to swap feet...
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: What does a consultant actually DO??